Should Bush be voted out

**White Powwow Dancer** · 05-09-2004, 02:46 AM

Hi everybody
What do you think about Bush should he be voted out for the prisoner abuse? give me your views. on this subject.

**Grits & Beans** · 05-09-2004, 03:18 AM

He should pull the US military out of Iraq. They got Saddam in custody. Just break camp. GW should be impeached the oil greedy *bleep*.

**WocusWoman** · 05-09-2004, 04:33 AM

- not only on the prison abuse scandel, but for other things that have happened in his administration.

Privateer6 · 05-09-2004, 11:48 AM

I don't think he should be impeached because of the prison scandel. Unfortunately these things have occured in previous conflicts from the revolution to todaY. The ironic thing I see is that if this becomes a political issue, then Kerry needs to step down from the race b/c he admitted under oath in front of a congressional committee that he conducted war crimes in Vietnam. At least Bush didn't commit them himself.

Gache · 05-09-2004, 01:28 PM

yep not only that there wasnt any torture just humiliation something every american man must go through when married to an american woman just the rest of the world says its abuse. :)

I believe in wars for resources like oil, if we didnt have oil you all would be dead in 6 months. We got rid of a tyrant and a man who has killed millions of people and now we should stay to at least give the 3 ethnic groups there a chance to establish a country. If we leave hundreds of thousands of children, women and old men will be dead in a couple of months and that would be the greatest cruelty.

7pointbull · 05-09-2004, 03:04 PM

I don't know about all that..... some of us rezzed out mountain people can live without oil..... not every native prioritizes the same. Give me a knife a rifle or bow and I'll do just fine. I don't think oil in the middle east is the key to everything. I think smart natives ought to be developing and inventing alternative energy resources to change the whole ****in economy, make all the rich politicians and bureaucrat mother ****s poor..... I don't think we need to buy everything that is sold to us by the U.S. government or george W. bush. whether it's ideas or what not. Y'know?
Warped minds struggling to accomplish conformity to the status quo. Why not really look into the whole picure? the past, present and future? Grandparents, children, grand-children, greatest of great grandchildren? What if a tribe or native nation invented or developed something the whole world could benefit from? would the U.S. approve? Do we need the U.S. stamp of approval for the betterment of all human civilization? What our fathers and father's father's fought and died for, our tiny reservations that some would call their home and ****. We owe it to them to not let our minds and lives be controlled and manipulated by the whiteman or pink man or whatever......................

7pointbull · 05-09-2004, 03:10 PM

If some of you are arrested and the same type of treatment happened to you that happened to the iraqi prisoners don't be mad, think of it as a rite of passage that every american man should go through, and be grateful and proud to be an american. :mickey2: :mickey2: (sponsored by GWB presidential campaign)

superndngyrl · 05-09-2004, 03:40 PM

i think that the war crimes committed on the iraqi prisoners are just another aspect of war. We train those people to kill people so when they do something like abuse prisoners its just another aspect of the war mentality. Sure they "shouldn't" do it but the thing is they are in a different frame of mind than us over here not fighting in the war. Its easy for us to judge them and their actions but things are different when you're surrounded by killing and living in a state of threat. I dont think we can point fingers at them unless we have been in their situation.

superndngyrl · 05-09-2004, 03:45 PM

oh Yea I wanted to also say since i'm handing out my opinion right now... is that we need a new president. I think we need to pull out of Iraq now, hopefully our next president will do that.

so yea... No More Bush after 2004! :)

**White Powwow Dancer** · 05-09-2004, 07:45 PM

Hi
I seen the pictures from the prison abuse they are awful to look at and I think the prez did the right thing he said I'll take the blame along with Rumfeld too.

Gache · 05-09-2004, 07:48 PM

7point you missed one huge obvious thing. What happens when 200 million white people run out of food? Your hunting skills wont last you more than a month. While your hunting 200 white people show up at your house shoot your family and take the food. Good luck with that.

What would happen if the shiites get the oil and unite with Iran? Then were at the beck and call of those people unless we use force to control it. Were screwed until we figure out fusion power.

I would have still invaded iraq even if saddam wasnt there and even if there wasnt any such thing as a terrorist.

**CandaePrincess** · 05-10-2004, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GJJudd

The ironic thing I see is that if this becomes a political issue, then Kerry needs to step down from the race b/c he admitted under oath in front of a congressional committee that he conducted war crimes in Vietnam. At least Bush didn't commit them himself.

Yeah he didn't commit any war crimes.....because he wasn't even around!!!! It's not hard to NOT do something when you're NOT there. He's made a mockery of the Geneva Convention. If they went by that there never would've been so called "humiliation and aggravation". You have to also realize...it's their CULTURE (something we as natives should respect). It's a humiliation to themselves as a person when a man sees another man naked. And it wasn't some humiliating crimes, these were psychological as well. To be piled on top of one another for sh*ts and giggles? There's nothing "okay" with that. They're supposed to treat our prisoners of war good and right, yet we're not supposed to uphold those same promises? Then Iraq will come out with their own photos of doing the same thing to americans and people will flip out and want to go over and bomb them....but remember, everyone said it wasn't a big deal. So why should it be to our people. It's awful, wrong and Bush knew nothing about it b/c he's a mascot for his administration. He just sits there while his cabinet runs the country.
AND FUTHERMORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! chyna!

Privateer6 · 05-10-2004, 11:20 AM

I am not saying it is not a big deal, IT IS A VERY BIG DEAL AND HEADS NEED TO ROLL! This scandal has ruined everything the US has done for the benefit of the Iraqis. As for the MPs saying Mil. Intel told them to do it, Intel should know better. Just because that abuse and torture is standard procedure in that region, it is not very effective for intel gathering. The Fourth Geneva Protocals MUST BE FOLLOWED even whent he enemy is not using them.
Personally I am all for the German Luftwaffe ( not SS or Gestapo) method of interogating POWs. According to one interogator, they were 99.9999999% effective. Teams of investigators would go over wreckage sites of the downed airman, go over all available intel on the pilot's unit, and within 2-3 days of capture and processing, the interrogation would begin. It was civil, no physical violencce, but had a lot of subtle mental mind games that made the POW think that the interrogators knew everything already, so what was wrong with telling them stuff? This interrogator worked with 2000-3000 POWs and only 2 did not collaborate. Unfortunately after the Great Escape, Hitler put the SS and Gestapo incharge of all POW camps and the treatment of POWs changed and intel gathering was severely reduced.

View Poll Results: Should he be voted out?
Yes get rid of him	26	76.47%
No Keep him in office.	8	23.53%
Voters: 34. You may not vote on this poll

05-09-2004, 02:46 AM	#1 (permalink)
White Powwow Dancer Brakeman Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: ONIGAMIINSING (Little portage) Posts: 1,306	Should Bush be voted out Hi everybody What do you think about Bush should he be voted out for the prisoner abuse? give me your views. on this subject. __________________ Asema Is Sacred Traditional Use, Not Misuse Wakan Tanka please have compassion on me. OK Niji we are running a train with red over yellow at this powwow.

05-09-2004, 01:28 PM	#5 (permalink)
Gache Quality Taco Inspector Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: PA Posts: 555	yep not only that there wasnt any torture just humiliation something every american man must go through when married to an american woman just the rest of the world says its abuse. :) I believe in wars for resources like oil, if we didnt have oil you all would be dead in 6 months. We got rid of a tyrant and a man who has killed millions of people and now we should stay to at least give the 3 ethnic groups there a chance to establish a country. If we leave hundreds of thousands of children, women and old men will be dead in a couple of months and that would be the greatest cruelty. __________________

05-09-2004, 03:40 PM	#8 (permalink)
superndngyrl photo fun Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: in front of the computer Posts: 4,291	i think that the war crimes committed on the iraqi prisoners are just another aspect of war. We train those people to kill people so when they do something like abuse prisoners its just another aspect of the war mentality. Sure they "shouldn't" do it but the thing is they are in a different frame of mind than us over here not fighting in the war. Its easy for us to judge them and their actions but things are different when you're surrounded by killing and living in a state of threat. I dont think we can point fingers at them unless we have been in their situation. __________________ The only time its too late to start dancing is when you're dead.

05-09-2004, 07:45 PM	#10 (permalink)
White Powwow Dancer Brakeman Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: ONIGAMIINSING (Little portage) Posts: 1,306	Hi I seen the pictures from the prison abuse they are awful to look at and I think the prez did the right thing he said I'll take the blame along with Rumfeld too. __________________ Asema Is Sacred Traditional Use, Not Misuse Wakan Tanka please have compassion on me. OK Niji we are running a train with red over yellow at this powwow.

05-09-2004, 03:18 AM	#2 (permalink)
Grits & Beans is back Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Minneapolis Posts: 4,730	He should pull the US military out of Iraq. They got Saddam in custody. Just break camp. GW should be impeached the oil greedy bleep.

05-09-2004, 04:33 AM	#3 (permalink)
WocusWoman N8tiffUmatillaMAMA Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Interior Alaska Posts: 2,727	- not only on the prison abuse scandel, but for other things that have happened in his administration.

05-09-2004, 11:48 AM	#4 (permalink)
Privateer6 Like my new toy? Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Cylon occupied North Carolina Posts: 775	I don't think he should be impeached because of the prison scandel. Unfortunately these things have occured in previous conflicts from the revolution to todaY. The ironic thing I see is that if this becomes a political issue, then Kerry needs to step down from the race b/c he admitted under oath in front of a congressional committee that he conducted war crimes in Vietnam. At least Bush didn't commit them himself.

05-09-2004, 03:04 PM	#6 (permalink)
7pointbull I.T.I. Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Rocky Mountain High Posts: 773 Blog Entries: 1	I don't know about all that..... some of us rezzed out mountain people can live without oil..... not every native prioritizes the same. Give me a knife a rifle or bow and I'll do just fine. I don't think oil in the middle east is the key to everything. I think smart natives ought to be developing and inventing alternative energy resources to change the whole **in economy, make all the rich politicians and bureaucrat mother s poor..... I don't think we need to buy everything that is sold to us by the U.S. government or george W. bush. whether it's ideas or what not. Y'know? Warped minds struggling to accomplish conformity to the status quo. Why not really look into the whole picure? the past, present and future? Grandparents, children, grand-children, greatest of great grandchildren? What if a tribe or native nation invented or developed something the whole world could benefit from? would the U.S. approve? Do we need the U.S. stamp of approval for the betterment of all human civilization? What our fathers and father's father's fought and died for, our tiny reservations that some would call their home and **. We owe it to them to not let our minds and lives be controlled and manipulated by the whiteman or pink man or whatever......................

05-09-2004, 03:10 PM	#7 (permalink)
7pointbull I.T.I. Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Rocky Mountain High Posts: 773 Blog Entries: 1	If some of you are arrested and the same type of treatment happened to you that happened to the iraqi prisoners don't be mad, think of it as a rite of passage that every american man should go through, and be grateful and proud to be an american. :mickey2: :mickey2: (sponsored by GWB presidential campaign)

05-09-2004, 03:45 PM	#9 (permalink)
superndngyrl photo fun Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: in front of the computer Posts: 4,291	oh Yea I wanted to also say since i'm handing out my opinion right now... is that we need a new president. I think we need to pull out of Iraq now, hopefully our next president will do that. so yea... No More Bush after 2004! :)

05-09-2004, 07:48 PM	#11 (permalink)
Gache Quality Taco Inspector Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: PA Posts: 555	7point you missed one huge obvious thing. What happens when 200 million white people run out of food? Your hunting skills wont last you more than a month. While your hunting 200 white people show up at your house shoot your family and take the food. Good luck with that. What would happen if the shiites get the oil and unite with Iran? Then were at the beck and call of those people unless we use force to control it. Were screwed until we figure out fusion power. I would have still invaded iraq even if saddam wasnt there and even if there wasnt any such thing as a terrorist. __________________

05-10-2004, 11:20 AM	#13 (permalink)
Privateer6 Like my new toy? Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Cylon occupied North Carolina Posts: 775	I am not saying it is not a big deal, IT IS A VERY BIG DEAL AND HEADS NEED TO ROLL! This scandal has ruined everything the US has done for the benefit of the Iraqis. As for the MPs saying Mil. Intel told them to do it, Intel should know better. Just because that abuse and torture is standard procedure in that region, it is not very effective for intel gathering. The Fourth Geneva Protocals MUST BE FOLLOWED even whent he enemy is not using them. Personally I am all for the German Luftwaffe ( not SS or Gestapo) method of interogating POWs. According to one interogator, they were 99.9999999% effective. Teams of investigators would go over wreckage sites of the downed airman, go over all available intel on the pilot's unit, and within 2-3 days of capture and processing, the interrogation would begin. It was civil, no physical violencce, but had a lot of subtle mental mind games that made the POW think that the interrogators knew everything already, so what was wrong with telling them stuff? This interrogator worked with 2000-3000 POWs and only 2 did not collaborate. Unfortunately after the Great Escape, Hitler put the SS and Gestapo incharge of all POW camps and the treatment of POWs changed and intel gathering was severely reduced.

05-10-2004, 02:44 PM	#14 (permalink)
quicksilverwade Banned Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: South of the Deadly San Andreas Fault Posts: 1,555