traci_m

(taken from another site I frequent)

"The U.S. Draft is in the works to be reinstated as early as 2005, after the U.S. elections later this year.

It is called the S. 89—Universal National Service Act of 2003 and requires all men and women, citizens and non-citizens residing in the U.S. (it allows the "Military Selective Service Act to authorize the military registration of females") between the age of 18-26 to enlist and serve in the military.

In the light of the upcoming elections, they're trying to pass the bills quickly, & quietly.

There's information on the bill here: www.hslda.org/Legislation.../2003/S89/

An interesting tidbit I found whilst researching this is that the Selective Service isn't calling it the draft, of course, but instead the "Registrant Integrated Processing System" or RIPS for short. Which, ironically, is the acronym for 'Rest In Peace'."


Here is a link to sign a petition to stop this nonsense:

http://www.russoforpresident.com/proof5.php

*note, I don't endorse this guy running for president--ha ha ha ha*

SmokeEater

The draft has been a hot issue since 9/11, and Bush's so-called "War on Terror" began.

I will agree with the arguement that the draft should be unbiased toward race and economic classess in the United States. So the sons and daughters of the Senators will be in the ditches with the sons and daughters of the mill workers. As it stands right now with an all volunteer military, a majority of the enlistees are of the middle class and below.

I went to an inner-city high school in which 90% of the student body were minorities. Only a few colleges ever came to recruit during the lunch periods, and that was during certain times of the year. However the military was there every single week. Contrast that to the affluent high schools in the school system where the major NC colleges, and even a few Ivy League schools would make frequent visits.

While I am a supporter of the US Military and Service, I hate it when youths coming out of high school think that the Military is their only other option if they cannot get into college.

On the other hand I do not think there is nothing wrong with making Military Service or some form of public service mandatory for all youths exiting High School (such as Israel).

Myself if I get drafted... well I'm 23 and not an 18 year-old, but I am already trying to get into the DEP for the USMC (reserves), and I've got about 10lbs to go.

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Gache

Well the volunteer military we have now is less minority represented than the time of the drafts especially in vietnam. If there is no exception to the draft except maybe concientious objection then it would be fair but then again we would be stuck with 8 million men in our armed forces who the majority dont want to be there.

The reason why it suceeds in Israel is because they have to or israel wont exist. We dont have that kind of threat yet. Conscript armies usually have low moral and quite a bit of corruption and mismanagement ie Russia and China.

Very complicated issue here.

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SmokeEater

As opposed to serving in the military combat units, I've heard the idea of serving in Forestry Firefighting Units, the Peace Corps, or other semi-military type organizations. Anything as long as it involves public service and discipline.

If it did come back to a draft a la the Vietnam era, I would hope there would be shorter enlistment tours for draftees as opposed to volunteers...

Just my thoughts

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TaShunka Luta

Well, there are people who are serving in the military who don't necessarily WANT to be in there now and they did volunteer. Some people feel they didn't have any choice, for whatever reason and now are facing the fight that they were trained for. The discipline instilled in you in the military is not something that alot of our youths are getting at home nowdays so I personally (and I say that so that I don't get bit when I turn around, I AM entitled to my own opinion) am for the draft, rip, whatever it is - might get some of these thug, gansta wannabes off the street and cornrows outta their heads. I think we should all be able to fight the fight, not some of us fight it and some of us sit over fat and happy on the freedom that soldiers die for everyday.

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Don't bring a JV player into my Varsity Game...

SmokeEater

That is what I do not understand and do not like. Yes you have choices aside from the military, and kids need to understand that.

I don't think anyone should join the Military without the foreknowledge of this: yes I am volunteering to be Uncle Sam's b**** for the next four to six years, and Uncle Sam is going to do with me as he see's fit. I understand that I am in the profession of killing man and being killed.

Just as we get new recruits in the fire department who are claustrophobic, afraid of hieghts, and afraid of heat (even after they get out of training). They need to understand the risks of the job before applying, and not in the trenches.

Joining the Military just for the benefits or tuition reimbursment should not be a lure, and the government needs to stop dangling that infront of middle and lower class impressionable children. There are better benefits offered by many different companies, and even most municipal city, county, state, and federal governments.

When asked why I want to join the USMC (Reserves), I told my recruiter, "I'm no 17 year old coming fresh out of high school. I'm 23 years old, I've got a decent job that I don't want to give up. I don't need the benefits or retirement. As an American I know it is my civic duty to serve, and there is nothing that can keep me from serving...." Something like that...

Aside from that... I would have said, "TO BE A KILLER!!!" but I felt that was a little over the top.

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Gache

tashunka

the military is good for discipline and for those thugs you talk about in that way I agree but are those thugs good for the military. Right now we have the best military around if all these fat and happies show up dont you think it would destroy how good the military is. I cant imagine 8 million young men in there at once. Since there is 2 million men each year that would enter the draft and the typical sign up is 4 years. If the term is shorter than we have men who are not as well trained than what we have now which means we would have more dead typically then we currently get in situations like Iraq.

I remember my father joined LURP patrols to get away from the recruits because he was afraid of those damn consripts getting him killed because of their lack of training.

What we could do is give a young man a choice join the military or join a work corp like firefighting, public construction efforts or home building for poor.

I dunno I lost my chance at the marines bc of a stupid thug who wasnt paying attention. If I was a soldier I wouldnt want a stupid thug next to me in a foxhole so to speak.

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Privateer6

At this time I do not think conscription is a very good idea. First and foremost is the morale factor, draftees historically tend to have poorer performances than volunteers. Although training is the same, because they serve shorter terms and do not want to be in their current situiations, they do not focus as mush attention to performance. Secondly although we are at war, al Queada just issued another "declaration of war," most people are not in a war mindset. Sure they are people like the late Pat Tillman and others who are joining, or in the preparation prosess of joining, however most people don't want to join up, they want to remain fat and happy. Finally the US does not have the war economy necessary to support a conscript army. Unlike WWII where everyone did their part to conserve and recycle resources and purchase war bonds for the benefit of the war, this is not happening. How many people do you know have purchased Patriot Bonds lately?

Unfortunately it appears that many people have forgotten the World Trade Center and Pentagon attacks. Some of the ones who have lost loved ones appear to forget that WE WERE ATTACKED. Some people want an apology from Bush, but the sad fact is that ALL OF US were in some way responsible. We chose our leaders, both in the presidency and in the congress. We do not keep up to date with what our officials do and not do. We do not look at history and see that US unpreparedness has been with us in almost all of our wars, Revolution, 1812, Civil, WWI, WWII, Korea, and Vietnam.


OK typed too much.
Jerry

TaShunka Luta

...and so I give you this. WHO THEN WILL DEFEND OUR COUNTRY?? Who will defend our motherland?? The fat and happies will get off their ho-ho eating behinds and go through basic training and become the men they were intended to be. In some cases warriors, not all granted, but some. My point is that we should ALL do our share in a case of emergency like THIS IS. Most males at age 18 are still unsure of what they are going to do with their life - The fact is we are spread WAY TOO THIN and the best of the best are getting killed out there because they are SPENT. Back to back tours, whether it's to Iraq - or to Afghanistan or switching places within 6 months after being on for a year, that's too much. The psychological damage that is being done - who is going to be there for these soldiers??? Who is going to take care of them when they come back just like vietnam and half of them end up drinking their life away just to handle the psychological effects of being there too long??? Come on now - I'm sure SOMEONE out there has enough school to answer that question.

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Don't bring a JV player into my Varsity Game...

Gache

13 years ago our military was 2.2 million soldiers active and we didnt have a draft then. Its not inconceviable that we could raise it to pre clinton levels. Now we have 1.4 million man army and to top that off we have 10 active divisions which means about 150,000 plus the marines are combat oriented forces. The structure of our military was made for wwII and hasnt changed since. Our armed forces is 10 times the size of the Israeli Army but somehow they have more combat forces. That means we have an aweful lot of wasted manpower preserving little fiefdoms and bureacracies

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Gache

I propose that there shouldnt be 4 branches of the military and should be condensed. The army should be all together eliminated, in place of it should be a navy with a modified marine corp called something like mobile infantry.

The mobile infantry would be composed of mobile light and heavy brigades instead of division size forces. All ground support would be placed into the navy's hand and they would then have a seemless ground, air and water transportation group supported by combat navy. A floating base so to speak. The airforce would be limited only to strategic force like our nuclear force, space force, and other global scale operations. Any air support they have for the army would be transffered to the new Navy and mobile infantry.

The role of reservists would be as support troops and rotate in and out for support operations into the navy/mobile infantry. All active army and marines would be transferred to combat units only. Stupid things like cooking and painting need not to have their own units but force combat troops to take care of themselves.

Good grief half the men on ships these days occupy their time repainting the damn ship 24 freaking times just to keep the boredom away. We have ww2 crew amounts on ships that have technology that needs less men.

This is just some of it.

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Privateer6

TSL,
Don't get me wrong, I think everyone should serve (I'm getting off my fat lazy a$$ and getting in shape to apply for the USNR DCO program). Gache has a point, our military has been downsized over the past 10-15 years. I remember the government cutting the number of ROTC scholarships (I would have received one a year or two before with my scores) and "retiring" lots of mid-grade officers and SNCOs. I have heard that the congress plans on downsizing again. I support GAche's idea of increasing the military to pre-Clinton levels. HOWEVER in order to do so, the logistics MUST BE IN PLACE BEFORE THIS HAPPENS! If the logistics are not in place, it will actually hurt our efforts in all areas of this war on terrorism.

I also agree that a very large psychological load is being placed not only on our servicemen, but also on their families ( that'a a major concern for my wife if I get in the navy, being deployed and coming back changed physically and mentally).

Gache,
Your idea of consolidating the military won't happen, but I've heard that the Army has been working on making its combat units more mobile. You are right in that Army headquarter units (and some say Marine units) are too support heavy. After the Lynch episode in which support people could not get out of an ambush, key Army officals have stated that training will be revamped for all personel. I personally think that the Army needs to have the same concept as the Marines: everyone is infantry first!

Ok nuff said.

Privateer6

Part of the logistics would include counseling for our returing vets and their families. I've heard this is being done but on a small scale. Also I do not think this is being done for all returing units, which it should. Again I don't know and am reporting hearsay and my opinion.
Jerry