pensmoke

What does "celebrial" mean? Did you mean cerebral?

Stirbaby

Oh, I do beleive I dropped my spell check!

Steady Rollin

You know I do respect my Elders and I listen every story they tell me. Cause when they are gone where are you gonna hear the stories of the old.??And once our elders are gone our languages have a very slim chance of surviving. And one well not story but once I heard a opinion that, The warriors of the old days are gone. And the situations have changed. Of where we have to defend ourselves in combat. There are no modern day warriors, But. Warriors of the old have evolved very much so. And these are reffered to the Native Polititions. They fight for our rights. In our comunnities, To provide a better way of life. They fight for our right's in our territory, As they did in the old, but not with bows and arrows, but with their minds and thought's So in a sense they are the warriors of today. So the warriors societies of the old may be gone, but we still have hope for a new life of warriors. That fight in their offices. And I like the way that sounds. And my hopes and Dreams are of serving for my community in our tribal offices. Cause I see everything from the outside in and to tell the truth it looks warm in those offices.

storm

This is a good point, I agree, those who fight for our rights should be upheld, however, the old warrior societies are not all gone. And Military experience from the individual or family is still important and honored in those societies.

__________________
My bark is worse than my bite

Steady Rollin

I'm sorry I have overlooked some tribes, I know some Tribes their culture and heritage runs as deep as the ocean. And I'm am enveous.

And thank you for reading my thoughts.
HO WOPIDA TANKA

kamikaze_yazzie

My thoughts and oppinions on the subject are a lil meshed - to say the least. I understand the whole "fight the oppressor" stance... and when i was younger id be the first to argue against The MAN. But with life comes new experience and people.

I can say im so VERY proud of my cousin who died living his dream of being an armed soldier in the Infantry... but irony of all that it was his "brother in arms" who killed him and took him from us. One of the army best atributes is that the soldier beside you is your buddy , you take care of each other, but it isnt altogether true.

Despite all that , you will NEVER hear me say what a soldier is doing is wrong. They sacrifice alot in serving for the military as well as their families. It is a hard job and i cant imagine being in a war torn country - where you can trust anyone, even ur own leaders. My other half is serving.. he gets out soon, actually. I am proud of them both but I would much rather have them home and safe.

And to add.. much love goes out to the Military wives and mothers... i dont know how you do it!!

Stirbaby

" NEVER "
The soldiers at wounded Kneew?
"Never"
The soldiers at Mai lai?
"Never"
The uniform will "NEVER" absolve each one of us from the responsability of our contract with the God.
If I believe that I am a child of god, and God is my Father, i am commanded by GOD to not Kill.
God made me, not the U.S. of A. , and I put no flag, government, before my relationship with God.
Not only out of my love, for all the beautiful people that are in my life, but I have a learned respect for the anger of the Grand Father.
We pray for God to lead us, then we get up and followthe U. S. of A. and wonder were god went.
We know what we must do.
I dont know if we are willing to be strong brave warriors and fight, in faith, for an unseen Spirit Creator.
There are catostrophic changes coming to our lives, you and me, and all the relelatives and friends will go thru a fire that we could not imagine in our worst nightmares of Hell on Earth.
The Red Man will be called.
A very Brave number will asnwer, " Yes God, I will follow ONLY you."
Then, and soon, the evil will be driven from our land and God will Reign King on Earth, in Peace, in Justace, and in our time.
These are the Rainbow Warriors that we have been told of.
They are the millions of mixed bloods, and almost lost bloods, coming to be taght the Old ways, coming to Stir america.

Casey

__________________
------------------
" We beseech and demand... that you accept the Church and the Superior Organization of the whole world and recognize the supreme Pontiff, called the Pope, and that in his name you acknowledge the King and Queen... his representatives, as the lords and superior authorities of these islands and main lands...
If you do not do this, or resort maliciously to delay, we warn you that, with the aid of God, we will enter your land against you with force and will make war in every place and by every means we can and are able, and we will then subject you to the yoke and authority of the church and of their Highnesses.
We will take you and your wives and children and make them slaves...
And we will take your property and will do you all the harm and evil we can..."

--The Requerimiento (read by Spanish Conquistadors to the people of the "New World" )

kamikaze_yazzie

I have a question... you have God says not to kill. Does that mean all killing is wrong? when some one has ill will toward us and wants to hurt us... we should just let them? If we do not fight for our rights as human beings (not lettin the law or government cloud the issues) what would happen? Its just a observation.. no attitude behind this. *L....
I dont condone violence.. but i do believe i have the right to protect myself and the ones i love. How does God have an answer to this? IS there a right way to fight? is there such a thing?

__________________
~* Im so sin-seriuos *~Impossible is NOT a fact, its an oppinion ... Rumble young girl RUMBLE!*~--

Stirbaby

Kamakae,
Good question. I wish i knew.
then we could just do it the right way, wether it is the harder way or not, just as long as it was the right way, right.
I mean, you would agree that , if you know it is the right way, the way that God wants us to behave, then you would do it.
even if was harder. but you knew it was right, you might have a tough time doing the right thing, but for sure you would not do the wrong thing , just because it would be easier.

Like sending a boy, with a sling shot, a rock, and sent him forward to fight the giant.
or, like having dinner at home, with your family, as god wraught havic and mahem on your enemies, and all the enemies of God.
Or walk with your nation, into a wide and deep river, and walk across the dry river bottom as the water opened before you and closed on the Armies of your enemies behind you.

Or the wall of Jericho.
the examples are numourous.
we all know of them.
It seems that God does His most Magnificent work when we, His children, just sit back and watch Daddy Kick the neighborhood Bully's Butt.
We need to give up on thinking WE are going to solve this problem.
We do what is right, like love, forgive, shair, care, feed, heal, dance, sing, harvest, cook, raise children, and enjoy the great sceanery that god has so Graiscously provided.
We just follow thos 11 rules.
the Contract we have with God.
Its the right thing that is the right thing to do.
It is always going to be the right thing.
thats why they call it the right thing.
Cause it the thing that is the right thing to do.

__________________
------------------
" We beseech and demand... that you accept the Church and the Superior Organization of the whole world and recognize the supreme Pontiff, called the Pope, and that in his name you acknowledge the King and Queen... his representatives, as the lords and superior authorities of these islands and main lands...
If you do not do this, or resort maliciously to delay, we warn you that, with the aid of God, we will enter your land against you with force and will make war in every place and by every means we can and are able, and we will then subject you to the yoke and authority of the church and of their Highnesses.
We will take you and your wives and children and make them slaves...
And we will take your property and will do you all the harm and evil we can..."

--The Requerimiento (read by Spanish Conquistadors to the people of the "New World" )

kamikaze_yazzie

That doesnt really answer the question... but guess itll have to do.... I just know there are people who wish harm on others. If its me on the end of that Im not gonna send them flowers. you know what i mean? But thats besides the point of this thread.

As for NA in military im proud, but like I said before I hope they all come home safely to the families that miss them.

__________________
~* Im so sin-seriuos *~Impossible is NOT a fact, its an oppinion ... Rumble young girl RUMBLE!*~--

storm

Hello stirbaby:
Thought for the day.
You say you are seeking and learning. Good. But much of your mind is apparently made up. Our most ancient traditions are warrior traditions. The powow as practiced today grew out of the old warrior society dances. Our veterans today are still our most honored folks, sanctioned etc. In fact in the old way, NO ONE would be dancing with that roach who was not a combat vet. The positions of many our societies (hethuska, Shawnee war dance, Inlonshka, Omaha dance,ohoma dance,etc) are based on war honors. We believe God gave us this way. Was he in error?
I will not fault you on your arguments to be moral, god loving people. But our ways come as a package. You cannot pick and choose. To serve your people , (today, that is Americans), or not.
As crappy as things can get here, where else would our societies and cultures be tolerated at all?

__________________
My bark is worse than my bite

Stirbaby

We believe God gave us this way.


"well, who are we, and when did the we decide this, and decide for you to express this for we"

"The only we i know is a people of million, with a hundred nations and thousands of tribes, and WE have had few meeting were WE discussed these things.
I have studied much about Native american life, yesterday, today, and prophicey for the future.
Not so much war and blood, lot more about peace and love.
If We are to be the past, and only the warrior past, then we have stopped our peoples evolution, and closed our ears to the voice of god, a god who may have different themes for different seasons.
I am not a christian, I am a Potano and i am an independent seeker of the truth.
Christians go to meetings; Potano go to god.
' Was he in error?" Maybe she was? Maybe WE have missread the signs, missinterpreted the lessons from the past.
It is interesting that many scholors and thearist , in the area of Native american History, have expressed the theory that the Nationalistic Warrior Factions that had taken over the politics of many nations, caussing war and hate between the nations and tribes, was the largest and most influencial factor in Euro's ability to take the Hemisphere, one tribe/nation at a time.
the only "Coalition of the willing" would come to small and to late, and at the wrong places for confrontation.
Dont let pride keep WE in the rut of faulure, especiall ih HE is lighting the right way.

I will not fault you on your arguments to be moral, god loving people.

" My brother, its not about fault. I could be wrong. so could you. But this is very important stuff so WE need to talk, fast, pray, listen, pray some more, then take action towards our right way.
What ever way it is, I do not think we are on the right way if we are just sleeping and eating and goin thru our lives as if we are not being called to make a choice."
" I can look at our warrior past, and it aparently was not a succesful strategy, and i think it makes even less sense today.
maybe God will do something, once and for all, to remove the warrior mentality that leads to war, death, mayhem, pain, suffering, and did I mention death.
we , WE, are a combination of the earth and the spirit.
when we let the mad monkey run the whole person, we leave out the spirit.
It will not take a lot of "Rainbow warriors', fighters who find that peace is power, to change the world, that the millions of traditional warriors to burn the world down to a smking stump.'

But our ways come as a package.
"Our ways. A package.
I know that sometimesit seems that with out this pride, we have nothing. but if WE could just let go of the traps of the past, and let the Great spirit have His/her way, then WE might see some positive change.
A better world for you and me, and WE."

You cannot pick and choose.
"Yes I can, you cant stop me.
I can pick what is right and good, and abandon what is wrong and bad. I can.
you can.
WE can."

To serve your people, (today, that is Americans), or not.
As crappy as things can get here, where else would our societies and cultures be tolerated at all?
"the elite endure us as long as they get more benifit out of us as they can. when We are not needed, we will not be tolorated.
right now, the elite need worker bees, to march for them, feed them, make stuff for them, carry their stuff for them.
when they dont need us, We will be a burdon, and expendable.
remeber, WE are not americans by our choice, or the choice of our ancestors. We are prisoners called americans.
we live under house arrest.
I love you, and thank you for giving me these great questions.
you love people, and the country ruled by this government.
you will do well finding your right way.
STIR in Peace, but for Gods sake STIR.

Casey

__________________
------------------
" We beseech and demand... that you accept the Church and the Superior Organization of the whole world and recognize the supreme Pontiff, called the Pope, and that in his name you acknowledge the King and Queen... his representatives, as the lords and superior authorities of these islands and main lands...
If you do not do this, or resort maliciously to delay, we warn you that, with the aid of God, we will enter your land against you with force and will make war in every place and by every means we can and are able, and we will then subject you to the yoke and authority of the church and of their Highnesses.
We will take you and your wives and children and make them slaves...
And we will take your property and will do you all the harm and evil we can..."

--The Requerimiento (read by Spanish Conquistadors to the people of the "New World" )

storm

Stirbaby;
Your thoughts and logic are comendable.( I will argue respectfully) But you just do not understand. I do not use we arrogantly. WE are told by our songs and prayers. I did not make them up. My elders and ancestors did. We are told "wakanda gaxo be" in many songs "God made it this way" You think like a european. WE (those of us who grew up in these traditons and rituals) are told over and over "Do not add anything or take anything away" not just to the dances, but our our oldest traditions. They are rituals. To change them changes everything. WE (same as above) were given our pipes and bundles and most sacred items by the Creator ( insert your favorite name here), and his helpers. The ancient rites are given UNCHANGED to the new keepers. This is my religion. I would not change it if I could. If I thought it wrong I seek a new religion.
This is fundamental to our elder ways,. You do not know (I guess) about mide', the dream drum and many other things I cannot discuss. Read the threads about the Pueblos, they do not change there ancient ways. You may be correct iin you ideas that the old ways failed. I do not argue that we need to seek the truth, This is a journey for each of us. I have found mine. But your truth, my friend, to stir things up, is the antithesis of traditional thinking. It would be the end of our traditional life. Just what the white man has always wanted. We do not need a messiah.

Much has changed. That is why there are powows now. But once changed the old religion is lost.

__________________
My bark is worse than my bite

cougarwalker