what are your views on nativeamericans in the military - Page 4

Stirbaby · 01-19-2004, 11:27 PM

OK, my son had not logged out. all that ranting is mine, not the lads.
I am logged in now.
Come and get me.

ME......"01-19-2004 06:57 PM
"Within the Native community....it has always been a respected choice for Our young men and women to enter the military"

What are the choices for many in the Native community/
The Armed forces is a pretty good option.
But dont confuse looking for a job with "justification ".
Amounst my wealthy reletives, their are none who have served in the Military.
But my poor relations, they have all been in the military.
Economics, not political frensy, lead one to enlist.
My sons are in ROTC.
And for them, and for the hundred or so others , in rotc, that i am familiar with, its all about the oppertunity for college money, not the usa, that motivates the kids.

"...We have always bestowed respect for Our Veterans..."

Why?
Does not the man who makes your car deserve respect?
It si all well and good that you, and your , community bstow respect, but does the usa?
Have you been to a VA hospital lately?
These vets were used, so that the wealthy can live in gated communities, and the vet can wait 2 years to see a doctor.
The wealthy cant fight for themselves, they need the poor to do it for them.
If some want to give their life for another person to have country club privaliges, then they should not be surprised at the wait at the VA Hospital.

"its not the White government we serve..."

Well, tell it to Geronimo!

"its the People we protect..."

God has one people, I will not chose to killl them.

"so all can enjoy Peace and Freedom."

I know this is cold, but this is pure fantasy or self delusion.

"We do it for Our People,as well as the rest of the country..."

No, I believe natives enlist for number one.
Just like everyone else.

"try watching a Grand Entry..see all the Veterans standing tall...their family standing tall...listen to the Flag song..the Memorial song..the Victory song....tell me it doesn't move you..."

Hell, I cry.
I am moved by my schools fight song. It plays into my animal nature to kill and steal. I cry and think of the lies that sent these peole into combat, cry for the families and villages destroyed by these peoples guns and blind patriotism.

"songs sung in OUR words...honoring OUR People...tell me that those Veterans are not respected for what they done..."

Again, what have they done.
Bought the nationalism myth.
I have more respect for the guy that gets to work at 3AM to make the donuts.
No parade, no medals, just love for his work, and service to his community.
Thats a hero.
You get me in a room with a dozen CM of H winners and they will all tell you that same.
they know, they have been there.

"I am proud of all my Brothers and Sisters who have served...remember..it was their sacrifices that give you the freedom to tell us we serve something other than Our People.."

Another myth. We bullied Japan into a war, and did the same with Germany in WWII.
Martin Luther King has done more for you and me, and he fought the USA.
I am not wanting to get you upset.
I have seen the USA flag, and my friends, it is a rag.
I can walk you thru my families cemetery.
the dead are there from many wars.
War of Northern Agression.
Indian Wars.
Spanish War.
WWI
WWII
Korea,
Vietnam.
Granada.
Panama.
Nicoragua.
Columbia.
and now we are killing the indigenous people of Iraq.
Yes, tell your reasons for killing indegenous people for the United States of America, to Geronimo.
I will repsect his answer to you."

Peacekeeper83 · 01-20-2004, 12:04 AM

have I been to a VA hospital lately?...why yes..just last Tuesday...I had to get tests done...I am there about once a month....alot a brothers there...few will blame the man for putting them there.
Do most people join..because of a job?...no....some do it because of their fathers did it...their grandfathers did it...ect...remember..Native Americans have served in the US military since the beginning...We are a People who are warriors..
Its ok if you choose not to kill....I choose to stand up and fight for the chance my children don't have to live in a world I experienced in Beirut...
Its funny...you can rant and rave...about freedom...you are it to push your point upon us....
No veteran is asking for anything...other than the community knows they served their people...yes we are proud of what we done ...we understand each others pain...unless you experienced combat..you'll never understand the bond...
You are right...we don't look at the flag the same..to you its a rag..to me and others...it symbolizes those we knew who died for that flag..it means Blood.and sacrifice...
Tell Geronimo...I serve my People..the way he served his..as in away you serve yours...the best way we feel we can...by the way...I am very active in my local community..by presenting a positive role model to our youth..with dignaty and respect....

Stirbaby · 01-20-2004, 03:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Peacekeeper83
have I been to a VA hospital lately?...why yes..just last Tuesday...I had to get tests done...I am there about once a month....{

{ I ask because my father lost his left leg in WWII and I survive the hell of the VA only thru the privilage of political influence.
I can find few vets who can give a passing grade to the VA, and that reflects on the value the USA sees in the sacrifices these vets are so "proud" to have offered. The study of war is the study of man with out God.}

alot a brothers there...few will blame the man for putting them there.
{ Most that I know that it was their own fault that they allowed themselves, and their friends that died in the field, to be seduced by patriotism. You really do run the risk of the clap when you lay down with a whore. Not that there's anything wrong with that}

Do most people join..because of a job?...no{ Most, more than 50%, lets get real with each other. This isnt a pissing contest. People of thought thinking outload. Its all good}

....some do it because of their fathers did it...their grandfathers did it...ect...remember..Native Americans have served in the US military since the beginning...We are a People who are warriors..
Its ok if you choose not to kill....I choose to stand up and fight for the chance my children don't have to live in a world I experienced in Beirut...{ Do you realise you where fighting the fight of US and Saudi oil interest. You have to know why all of those Marines died. It had nothing to do with protecting my freedom.}
Its funny...you can rant and rave...about freedom...you are it to push your point upon us....{ what rant and rave about freedom. freedom begins at home. freedom is an elussion, drunk metephor on a whiskey bender in Tiajuna. I dont need freedom from the USA. God gave me freedom, and it is God I will swear my allegiance to. flags are for rags, my neighbor. You cant a a war untill at least two people set up a flag making enterprise}
No veteran is asking for anything...other than the community knows they served their people...yes we are proud of what we done ...we understand each others pain...unless you experienced combat..you'll never understand the bond...
{ I have, and I do. It one of the only good things to come out of war. the brotherhood.
But, we are wired for getting into packs and attacking the villiage on the other side of the mountain. Its a primitive rush that comes only from your first hit of X, circus sex, and running head long into a pack of wolves with 15 of your best friends flanking yoursides. Thats why I played Rugby until I was 47. Nothing like running with the wolves. Its in our blood. So are a lot of things that we are expected to rise above. We dont have to be a slave to the animal we abide in. No, we are the master, and we can do better. }

Hey, thanks for the civilised diaologe. Reminds me of times sitting at the bar at the VFW. All VETS, and all full of beer and wisdom.
Peace, or War,
Casey

You are right...we don't look at the flag the same..to you its a rag..to me and others...it symbolizes those we knew who died for that flag..it means Blood.and sacrifice...
Tell Geronimo...I serve my People..the way he served his..as in away you serve yours...the best way we feel we can...by the way...I am very active in my local community..by presenting a positive role model to our youth..with dignaty and respect....

Stirbaby · 01-20-2004, 03:27 AM

I can see our elders smiling as they watch us sit arround and discuss the issues that face our people. It is good that we do.

You are right...we don't look at the flag the same..to you its a rag..

{ No, its pretty, but is far better a cloth become a ragand mop up blood than become the blade that draws the blood}

to me and others...it symbolizes those we knew who died for that flag..

{ With respect. Diddnt they die for their friends. Not a government. Their government, whom they trusted, lied to them, betrayed their future and all the dreams their parents had for them. Blood left in the sand for the cause of Haliburton Stock Holders.}
it means Blood.and sacrifice...
{ in for a penny, in for a pound... as a reason to celebrate faulure, killing, maimed and broken lifes. Its time for some evolution. Step away from the wolve. It is not your friend. It only wants your blood.}

Tell Geronimo...

( Hey, you tell Geronimo, when I get a vission, i dont waste them on old men... I visit Pocohawntes, when she was young and ... perky!}

I serve my People..the way he served his..as in away you serve yours...the best way we feel we can...by the way...I am very active in my local community..by presenting a positive role model to our youth..with dignaty and respect....
{Awesome... the role of a man, in the family, in the neighborhood, in the community, it is the foundation all truths are built upon.}
Peas

Peacekeeper83 · 01-20-2004, 11:03 AM

One point I feel you have misunderstood....we were not in Beirut for Saudi oil....fact: the Isrealis had trapped the PLO in the city of Beirut....we went in....assisted in the peaceable evacuation of the PLO in order to prevent senseless blood shed of innocent Lebanese lives....after we pulled out....a Christian Militia under the blessings of the Isrealis..went through a refugee camp....and massacred almost 3000 people (muslims) in the course of a weekend...we returned..provided a buffer between the Shiite muslims and the Isrealis.....over the course of time...we becme the targets,by the people whose lives we were protecting....throw in some Iranian funding...and we became the receipients to the largest non nucleur explosion to hit the world..since world war 2....we were there to save lives...in turn it cost us 300 American lives....so....how can you say oil was the reason these people died? All of this was started in a war being fought in the name of religion..Killing done in the name of God..by Christians,Jews,and Muslims..

Stirbaby · 01-20-2004, 11:40 AM

"we were not in Beirut for Saudi oil"

Is there any other reason to be in the middle east?
Follow the money , in any USA war, and you will find the truth behind the why, the who, and the truth.

"the Isrealis had trapped the PLO in the city of Beirut...."

Maybe the Isrialites are pawns of the British and USA interests.
Maybe they, and their allies, are fighting the indegenious peoples of that land.
They are called Palestinians for a reason.... its their land.

we went in....assisted in the peaceable evacuation of the PLO in order to prevent senseless blood shed of innocent Lebanese lives....after we pulled out....a Christian Militia under the blessings of the Isrealis..went through a refugee camp....and massacred almost 3000 people (muslims) in the course of a weekend...we returned..provided a buffer between the Shiite muslims and the Isrealis.....over the course of time...

"we becme the targets,by the people whose lives we were protecting..."

That is the myth they sold you, but locals kill because the invaders threaten them.
We, the USA, and you, threatened them.
Freedom fighters, or damn injuns.... the winner writes the history... as always.... but NATIVE AMERICANS should listen to their elders, and know better.

".throw in some Iranian funding..."

The Iran-Contra hearings, Oliver North, the CIA and you still say, or believe the myth, that the Iranian money had USA hands on it.
Your USA is the owner of the gun fired at you.

and we became the receipients to the largest non nucleur explosion to hit the world..since world war 2....we were there to save lives...in turn it cost us 300 American lives....so....

"how can you say oil was the reason these people died?"

well, it takes years of following the news, not just the sports, and being a student of history, and you just add the truths up and you will find it easy to say.
"
All of this was started in a war being fought in the name of religion.."

Funny thing about religion. God doesnt have much good to say about it.
God calls religion " the Great Whore".
Religion has little to do about god, and alot to do about greed, power, and fear.

"Killing done in the name of God..by Christians,Jews,and Muslims..
and Native Americans"

I lost family in that "war", and many more children died in that "war" than marines, but no tear needed to be shed if god was in the mix.

Please forgive my limitations in debating my point of view.
I intend no disrespect for you, your views, nor the lifes of your fellow Marines.
I wonder how many survivors of that explosion have to put up with the wait of the VA Hospital system.
STIR in Peace,
Casey

Steady Rollin · 01-26-2004, 11:28 AM

I don't agree with it. After years of treaty negotiations, and what the white man did to our people. Don't get me wrong, My pops and several uncles served respectivly. I'm am proud of that. But over all I would have to say I don't see why our strong people should be putting their necks out there for them. Do they fight for our rights in this country no they don't and the only time they do is when there is money involved. Senators whoever when they campaign they always say they are gonna set up some kind of program for native american medical blah, blah blah. This and that. So before you sign over your life to the "MAN" you think of your tribe. And how the government has interveined with your rights. This country is already ours, WHY? should we fight for it? When they took everything that they couldn't have. As a sense of being I still believe in this day and age, That this country is still ours. And when you read back in history and read on these random massacares. It makes you think, what did we ever do wrong?? NOTHING. It was just all out of meaness. Remember Wounded Knee?? Nobody should forget. And I know I won't. They took the first shot. And they allways will. They say everything is fair. Especially when your native. We beat them once. We should be proud of that. History is repeating and we,re just here for the ride. That's what I think. I don't mean to Offend anybody. I know there is people out here has had loved ones takin from them because of the wars that we fight. And my heart goes out to you and your family. We all have the right to freedom of speech and I thought I'd just express my opinions, that doesn't mean you have to agree with them. So please express yours too, Because everyone can make a difference. You just have to make an attept.

Ho Wopida Tanka

Thanks for taking time to read my thoughts.

Stirbaby · 01-26-2004, 12:22 PM

"I don't agree with it. After years of treaty negotiations, and what the white man did to our people."

These people killed natives because they , too, were patriotic, served their country, and we know now that they were robbers, killers, and liers.
Why should we be ones who join them in their patriotic war to conquer other native people?
I like the way this young man thinks.

" Don't get me wrong, My pops and several uncles served respectivly."

I think that most of us have a family tree full of vets. I know I do. Lets assume that we all do.

" I'm am proud of that."
Pride is a funny thing.
It was the first sin. It is the worst sin. It is the hardest to see, it is the one that makes us most blind.
Honored? Respectful?
Sure.
Proud?
Not me.

The rest of this young mans words are wisdom.
The good kind that honors our elders.

The sand of my land is full of the bones of proud warriors, and the bones of their starved children.
The men of peace, who slipped into the scrub, the swamps, and the sawgrass prairies, these are the elders of the ones who remain here.

There is a reason God made our brain the largest of all his creation.
To use it.
(Your dic* or your brain, you cant think with both at the same time, so trust the judgement of the larger...... think about it)
We have control over the natural instints that our body has inherated for us.
My nature is survival of the fitest.
If you want to understand our nature, mine and yours, then study the chimpanzee.
My body is descedent from the ape, my brain, my spirit, is descedant from god.
My mind, my spirit, gives up my life for the well being of my enemy.
We are to love, and let God provide the Judgement.

I hate it when people bring god into the discussion, so I am sending myself to my room.

KeenKiowaBabeForever · 01-27-2004, 08:57 PM

I know that not alot of people agree with American Indians in the military, but i think that it is wonderful that these brave men and women go out there to serve a country where they (we)call home. I feel that it is wonderful that I have a Husband that is out there and fighting and defending a place for Me and for other natives to be safe and free. I say Aho to them all...And prayers with you always :Angel2

pensmoke · 02-05-2004, 11:24 PM

:)

bluebird · 02-06-2004, 03:28 AM

I am proud both my parents served in the military and my Mother just within the past 5 months has returned from Iraq, and she received a medal of honor, for outstanding duty and service, she is a 1sgt in her unit which is a big thing for women.

As long people can be filled with pride while serving in the military why not?

Indians percentage wise has the highest rate of military service in the history of the USA- ANd i learned this little fact in my Native American Ethics class.

Stirbaby · 02-06-2004, 10:34 AM

"To sum it up, why should we help preserve "the American way" if the meaning of it is to keep us in a powerless state where they can keep us under their thumb?"

well, that is not the most celebrial way to explain it, but it works.
help get momas purse back, dont empower the thief.
This is getting some people talking about the USA, WAR, and our people.
Good discussion.

AlmostThere · 02-06-2004, 10:42 AM

my response would be this and i sure i have to same view as many others:

Number One if i was to enter into the United States Army I would not be fighting for BUSHand his reasons. I would fight for OUR country and would die for our country the same way our grandfahters died for it. Proud. It was our land way before the whites even thought about crossing over. And this will be our land when the sun shall rise no more. Yes, you will be in the United States Army under command of the white man....But i would be fighting for the red man and always will.

01-19-2004, 11:27 PM	#61 (permalink)
Stirbaby Teen Dancer Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Ocali Posts: 252	OK, my son had not logged out. all that ranting is mine, not the lads. I am logged in now. Come and get me. ME......"01-19-2004 06:57 PM "Within the Native community....it has always been a respected choice for Our young men and women to enter the military" What are the choices for many in the Native community/ The Armed forces is a pretty good option. But dont confuse looking for a job with "justification ". Amounst my wealthy reletives, their are none who have served in the Military. But my poor relations, they have all been in the military. Economics, not political frensy, lead one to enlist. My sons are in ROTC. And for them, and for the hundred or so others , in rotc, that i am familiar with, its all about the oppertunity for college money, not the usa, that motivates the kids. "...We have always bestowed respect for Our Veterans..." Why? Does not the man who makes your car deserve respect? It si all well and good that you, and your , community bstow respect, but does the usa? Have you been to a VA hospital lately? These vets were used, so that the wealthy can live in gated communities, and the vet can wait 2 years to see a doctor. The wealthy cant fight for themselves, they need the poor to do it for them. If some want to give their life for another person to have country club privaliges, then they should not be surprised at the wait at the VA Hospital. "its not the White government we serve..." Well, tell it to Geronimo! "its the People we protect..." God has one people, I will not chose to killl them. "so all can enjoy Peace and Freedom." I know this is cold, but this is pure fantasy or self delusion. "We do it for Our People,as well as the rest of the country..." No, I believe natives enlist for number one. Just like everyone else. "try watching a Grand Entry..see all the Veterans standing tall...their family standing tall...listen to the Flag song..the Memorial song..the Victory song....tell me it doesn't move you..." Hell, I cry. I am moved by my schools fight song. It plays into my animal nature to kill and steal. I cry and think of the lies that sent these peole into combat, cry for the families and villages destroyed by these peoples guns and blind patriotism. "songs sung in OUR words...honoring OUR People...tell me that those Veterans are not respected for what they done..." Again, what have they done. Bought the nationalism myth. I have more respect for the guy that gets to work at 3AM to make the donuts. No parade, no medals, just love for his work, and service to his community. Thats a hero. You get me in a room with a dozen CM of H winners and they will all tell you that same. they know, they have been there. "I am proud of all my Brothers and Sisters who have served...remember..it was their sacrifices that give you the freedom to tell us we serve something other than Our People.." Another myth. We bullied Japan into a war, and did the same with Germany in WWII. Martin Luther King has done more for you and me, and he fought the USA. I am not wanting to get you upset. I have seen the USA flag, and my friends, it is a rag. I can walk you thru my families cemetery. the dead are there from many wars. War of Northern Agression. Indian Wars. Spanish War. WWI WWII Korea, Vietnam. Granada. Panama. Nicoragua. Columbia. and now we are killing the indigenous people of Iraq. Yes, tell your reasons for killing indegenous people for the United States of America, to Geronimo. I will repsect his answer to you." __________________ ------------------ " We beseech and demand... that you accept the Church and the Superior Organization of the whole world and recognize the supreme Pontiff, called the Pope, and that in his name you acknowledge the King and Queen... his representatives, as the lords and superior authorities of these islands and main lands... If you do not do this, or resort maliciously to delay, we warn you that, with the aid of God, we will enter your land against you with force and will make war in every place and by every means we can and are able, and we will then subject you to the yoke and authority of the church and of their Highnesses. We will take you and your wives and children and make them slaves... And we will take your property and will do you all the harm and evil we can..." --The Requerimiento (read by Spanish Conquistadors to the people of the "New World" )

01-20-2004, 12:04 AM	#62 (permalink)
Peacekeeper83 a Peace of......... Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: just where the southern plains end...and the hill country begin... Posts: 1,081	have I been to a VA hospital lately?...why yes..just last Tuesday...I had to get tests done...I am there about once a month....alot a brothers there...few will blame the man for putting them there. Do most people join..because of a job?...no....some do it because of their fathers did it...their grandfathers did it...ect...remember..Native Americans have served in the US military since the beginning...We are a People who are warriors.. Its ok if you choose not to kill....I choose to stand up and fight for the chance my children don't have to live in a world I experienced in Beirut... Its funny...you can rant and rave...about freedom...you are it to push your point upon us.... No veteran is asking for anything...other than the community knows they served their people...yes we are proud of what we done ...we understand each others pain...unless you experienced combat..you'll never understand the bond... You are right...we don't look at the flag the same..to you its a rag..to me and others...it symbolizes those we knew who died for that flag..it means Blood.and sacrifice... Tell Geronimo...I serve my People..the way he served his..as in away you serve yours...the best way we feel we can...by the way...I am very active in my local community..by presenting a positive role model to our youth..with dignaty and respect.... __________________ We spend a lifetime worrying about if we make a difference....Marines don't have that problem.

01-20-2004, 03:27 AM	#64 (permalink)
Stirbaby Teen Dancer Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Ocali Posts: 252	I can see our elders smiling as they watch us sit arround and discuss the issues that face our people. It is good that we do. You are right...we don't look at the flag the same..to you its a rag.. { No, its pretty, but is far better a cloth become a ragand mop up blood than become the blade that draws the blood} to me and others...it symbolizes those we knew who died for that flag.. { With respect. Diddnt they die for their friends. Not a government. Their government, whom they trusted, lied to them, betrayed their future and all the dreams their parents had for them. Blood left in the sand for the cause of Haliburton Stock Holders.} it means Blood.and sacrifice... { in for a penny, in for a pound... as a reason to celebrate faulure, killing, maimed and broken lifes. Its time for some evolution. Step away from the wolve. It is not your friend. It only wants your blood.} Tell Geronimo... ( Hey, you tell Geronimo, when I get a vission, i dont waste them on old men... I visit Pocohawntes, when she was young and ... perky!} I serve my People..the way he served his..as in away you serve yours...the best way we feel we can...by the way...I am very active in my local community..by presenting a positive role model to our youth..with dignaty and respect.... {Awesome... the role of a man, in the family, in the neighborhood, in the community, it is the foundation all truths are built upon.} Peas __________________ ------------------ " We beseech and demand... that you accept the Church and the Superior Organization of the whole world and recognize the supreme Pontiff, called the Pope, and that in his name you acknowledge the King and Queen... his representatives, as the lords and superior authorities of these islands and main lands... If you do not do this, or resort maliciously to delay, we warn you that, with the aid of God, we will enter your land against you with force and will make war in every place and by every means we can and are able, and we will then subject you to the yoke and authority of the church and of their Highnesses. We will take you and your wives and children and make them slaves... And we will take your property and will do you all the harm and evil we can..." --The Requerimiento (read by Spanish Conquistadors to the people of the "New World" )

01-20-2004, 11:03 AM	#65 (permalink)
Peacekeeper83 a Peace of......... Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: just where the southern plains end...and the hill country begin... Posts: 1,081	One point I feel you have misunderstood....we were not in Beirut for Saudi oil....fact: the Isrealis had trapped the PLO in the city of Beirut....we went in....assisted in the peaceable evacuation of the PLO in order to prevent senseless blood shed of innocent Lebanese lives....after we pulled out....a Christian Militia under the blessings of the Isrealis..went through a refugee camp....and massacred almost 3000 people (muslims) in the course of a weekend...we returned..provided a buffer between the Shiite muslims and the Isrealis.....over the course of time...we becme the targets,by the people whose lives we were protecting....throw in some Iranian funding...and we became the receipients to the largest non nucleur explosion to hit the world..since world war 2....we were there to save lives...in turn it cost us 300 American lives....so....how can you say oil was the reason these people died? All of this was started in a war being fought in the name of religion..Killing done in the name of God..by Christians,Jews,and Muslims.. __________________ We spend a lifetime worrying about if we make a difference....Marines don't have that problem.

01-20-2004, 11:40 AM	#66 (permalink)
Stirbaby Teen Dancer Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Ocali Posts: 252	"we were not in Beirut for Saudi oil" Is there any other reason to be in the middle east? Follow the money , in any USA war, and you will find the truth behind the why, the who, and the truth. "the Isrealis had trapped the PLO in the city of Beirut...." Maybe the Isrialites are pawns of the British and USA interests. Maybe they, and their allies, are fighting the indegenious peoples of that land. They are called Palestinians for a reason.... its their land. we went in....assisted in the peaceable evacuation of the PLO in order to prevent senseless blood shed of innocent Lebanese lives....after we pulled out....a Christian Militia under the blessings of the Isrealis..went through a refugee camp....and massacred almost 3000 people (muslims) in the course of a weekend...we returned..provided a buffer between the Shiite muslims and the Isrealis.....over the course of time... "we becme the targets,by the people whose lives we were protecting..." That is the myth they sold you, but locals kill because the invaders threaten them. We, the USA, and you, threatened them. Freedom fighters, or damn injuns.... the winner writes the history... as always.... but NATIVE AMERICANS should listen to their elders, and know better. ".throw in some Iranian funding..." The Iran-Contra hearings, Oliver North, the CIA and you still say, or believe the myth, that the Iranian money had USA hands on it. Your USA is the owner of the gun fired at you. and we became the receipients to the largest non nucleur explosion to hit the world..since world war 2....we were there to save lives...in turn it cost us 300 American lives....so.... "how can you say oil was the reason these people died?" well, it takes years of following the news, not just the sports, and being a student of history, and you just add the truths up and you will find it easy to say. " All of this was started in a war being fought in the name of religion.." Funny thing about religion. God doesnt have much good to say about it. God calls religion " the Great Whore". Religion has little to do about god, and alot to do about greed, power, and fear. "Killing done in the name of God..by Christians,Jews,and Muslims.. and Native Americans" I lost family in that "war", and many more children died in that "war" than marines, but no tear needed to be shed if god was in the mix. Please forgive my limitations in debating my point of view. I intend no disrespect for you, your views, nor the lifes of your fellow Marines. I wonder how many survivors of that explosion have to put up with the wait of the VA Hospital system. STIR in Peace, Casey __________________ ------------------ " We beseech and demand... that you accept the Church and the Superior Organization of the whole world and recognize the supreme Pontiff, called the Pope, and that in his name you acknowledge the King and Queen... his representatives, as the lords and superior authorities of these islands and main lands... If you do not do this, or resort maliciously to delay, we warn you that, with the aid of God, we will enter your land against you with force and will make war in every place and by every means we can and are able, and we will then subject you to the yoke and authority of the church and of their Highnesses. We will take you and your wives and children and make them slaves... And we will take your property and will do you all the harm and evil we can..." --The Requerimiento (read by Spanish Conquistadors to the people of the "New World" ) Last edited by Stirbaby; 01-20-2004 at 11:47 AM.

01-26-2004, 11:28 AM	#67 (permalink)
Steady Rollin #1 STUNNA Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: I SHINE EVERY SUMMER! Posts: 120	Native americans in th us armed forces I don't agree with it. After years of treaty negotiations, and what the white man did to our people. Don't get me wrong, My pops and several uncles served respectivly. I'm am proud of that. But over all I would have to say I don't see why our strong people should be putting their necks out there for them. Do they fight for our rights in this country no they don't and the only time they do is when there is money involved. Senators whoever when they campaign they always say they are gonna set up some kind of program for native american medical blah, blah blah. This and that. So before you sign over your life to the "MAN" you think of your tribe. And how the government has interveined with your rights. This country is already ours, WHY? should we fight for it? When they took everything that they couldn't have. As a sense of being I still believe in this day and age, That this country is still ours. And when you read back in history and read on these random massacares. It makes you think, what did we ever do wrong?? NOTHING. It was just all out of meaness. Remember Wounded Knee?? Nobody should forget. And I know I won't. They took the first shot. And they allways will. They say everything is fair. Especially when your native. We beat them once. We should be proud of that. History is repeating and we,re just here for the ride. That's what I think. I don't mean to Offend anybody. I know there is people out here has had loved ones takin from them because of the wars that we fight. And my heart goes out to you and your family. We all have the right to freedom of speech and I thought I'd just express my opinions, that doesn't mean you have to agree with them. So please express yours too, Because everyone can make a difference. You just have to make an attept. Ho Wopida Tanka Thanks for taking time to read my thoughts. __________________ If the Great Spirit had desired me to be a white man, he would have made me so in the first place. -SITTING BULL

01-26-2004, 12:22 PM	#68 (permalink)
Stirbaby Teen Dancer Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Ocali Posts: 252	Re: Native americans in th us armed forces "I don't agree with it. After years of treaty negotiations, and what the white man did to our people." These people killed natives because they , too, were patriotic, served their country, and we know now that they were robbers, killers, and liers. Why should we be ones who join them in their patriotic war to conquer other native people? I like the way this young man thinks. " Don't get me wrong, My pops and several uncles served respectivly." I think that most of us have a family tree full of vets. I know I do. Lets assume that we all do. " I'm am proud of that." Pride is a funny thing. It was the first sin. It is the worst sin. It is the hardest to see, it is the one that makes us most blind. Honored? Respectful? Sure. Proud? Not me. The rest of this young mans words are wisdom. The good kind that honors our elders. The sand of my land is full of the bones of proud warriors, and the bones of their starved children. The men of peace, who slipped into the scrub, the swamps, and the sawgrass prairies, these are the elders of the ones who remain here. There is a reason God made our brain the largest of all his creation. To use it. (Your dic* or your brain, you cant think with both at the same time, so trust the judgement of the larger...... think about it) We have control over the natural instints that our body has inherated for us. My nature is survival of the fitest. If you want to understand our nature, mine and yours, then study the chimpanzee. My body is descedent from the ape, my brain, my spirit, is descedant from god. My mind, my spirit, gives up my life for the well being of my enemy. We are to love, and let God provide the Judgement. I hate it when people bring god into the discussion, so I am sending myself to my room. __________________ ------------------ " We beseech and demand... that you accept the Church and the Superior Organization of the whole world and recognize the supreme Pontiff, called the Pope, and that in his name you acknowledge the King and Queen... his representatives, as the lords and superior authorities of these islands and main lands... If you do not do this, or resort maliciously to delay, we warn you that, with the aid of God, we will enter your land against you with force and will make war in every place and by every means we can and are able, and we will then subject you to the yoke and authority of the church and of their Highnesses. We will take you and your wives and children and make them slaves... And we will take your property and will do you all the harm and evil we can..." --The Requerimiento (read by Spanish Conquistadors to the people of the "New World" ) Last edited by Stirbaby; 01-26-2004 at 12:28 PM.

01-27-2004, 08:57 PM	#69 (permalink)
KeenKiowaBabeForever Tiny Tot Dancer Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Military Post in Bamberg, Germany Posts: 66	I know that not alot of people agree with American Indians in the military, but i think that it is wonderful that these brave men and women go out there to serve a country where they (we)call home. I feel that it is wonderful that I have a Husband that is out there and fighting and defending a place for Me and for other natives to be safe and free. I say Aho to them all...And prayers with you always :Angel2

02-05-2004, 11:24 PM	#70 (permalink)
pensmoke Pow Wow Visitor Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: N.C. Posts: 17	an example :) Last edited by pensmoke; 05-31-2005 at 05:08 PM.

02-06-2004, 03:28 AM	#71 (permalink)
bluebird Pow Wow Visitor Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 9	I am proud both my parents served in the military and my Mother just within the past 5 months has returned from Iraq, and she received a medal of honor, for outstanding duty and service, she is a 1sgt in her unit which is a big thing for women. As long people can be filled with pride while serving in the military why not? Indians percentage wise has the highest rate of military service in the history of the USA- ANd i learned this little fact in my Native American Ethics class.

02-06-2004, 10:34 AM	#72 (permalink)
Stirbaby Teen Dancer Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Ocali Posts: 252	"To sum it up, why should we help preserve "the American way" if the meaning of it is to keep us in a powerless state where they can keep us under their thumb?" well, that is not the most celebrial way to explain it, but it works. help get momas purse back, dont empower the thief. This is getting some people talking about the USA, WAR, and our people. Good discussion. __________________ ------------------ " We beseech and demand... that you accept the Church and the Superior Organization of the whole world and recognize the supreme Pontiff, called the Pope, and that in his name you acknowledge the King and Queen... his representatives, as the lords and superior authorities of these islands and main lands... If you do not do this, or resort maliciously to delay, we warn you that, with the aid of God, we will enter your land against you with force and will make war in every place and by every means we can and are able, and we will then subject you to the yoke and authority of the church and of their Highnesses. We will take you and your wives and children and make them slaves... And we will take your property and will do you all the harm and evil we can..." --The Requerimiento (read by Spanish Conquistadors to the people of the "New World" )

02-06-2004, 10:42 AM	#73 (permalink)
AlmostThere The Original OP CREW Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: AZ Posts: 971	my response would be this and i sure i have to same view as many others: Number One if i was to enter into the United States Army I would not be fighting for BUSHand his reasons. I would fight for OUR country and would die for our country the same way our grandfahters died for it. Proud. It was our land way before the whites even thought about crossing over. And this will be our land when the sun shall rise no more. Yes, you will be in the United States Army under command of the white man....But i would be fighting for the red man and always will. __________________ blah blah blah....