ron red eagle

Then I have to commend your digitaldav, he's joined the military for all the right reasons (IMHO) to better not only himself, but just as important, his family. When I joined it was to get the hell away from an abusive father and for the (not ashamed to say) trip around the world to exotic(sp?) lands.

My hats off to your digitaldav!!!

digitaldav

as a U.S. MARINE, and all the other Devil Dogs out there, how THE EEFFFF did you feel when you helped out other surpressed folks and help them overcome a bunch of BS. By risking your a$$ for them, who u dont even eeefin know . but knowing you made a eeeeefn difference and making your god and people know that you got what it takes to grab down and GRAB YOUR PAIR to make a EEEEFFFN differance in protecting your culture ,language and most of all EEEEFFFN heritage. from FKNB d-heads.

ron red eagle

As a Former Navy Man, I can see where you're comin from. I didn't state that's not how I felt as I matured and gained time in the navy, I stated, that was the main reason I joined. It made me High as hell, seeing those Jets return to the aircraft carrier I was on, knowing good and damned well, we just took out more of the oppressors. I was there during desert storm and shield, I know what it was like out there in the middle of the IO scared to death, because we never knew when the gas was gonna hit us, nor did we know if the Marines we sent out there were gonna return. I am slowly learning my heritage because of the oppressor I was raised with, and as I look back now, I know good and well, I showed my ancestors honor by staying in and not gettin the hell out because I was "the only son". And yes, in 1991, they gave me the offer to get out because of that reason, and I told the Skipper of the ship, I wanted to stay in.

DANCINGEAGLE

Semper Fi digitaldav. Semper Fi.

__________________
Through the good times and bad times, always pray.

Ndnsoldierboy11b

The folks in the north american continent have alot more freedom than folks over here in Afghanistan do. A female trying to speak her mind here would be whipped or shot. So even though our own government isn't perfect you still have to right too speak your mind. Try that over here and you'll get a spray of AK-47's sent your way, or have your family shot in front of you.
So go ahead and speak your mind, its your right too...But remember there are others who can't.

I have said my 2 cents....

A groundpoundin' lifer,

Ndnsoldierboy11b:flag:

Abeartracks

Thanks YUALL who have served and are serving I know how you feel I was there Did 20 Myself those who have not served can still put your 2 cents in But remember there are still some of us over there or just out there serving at this very moment Remember them when you COMMENT!!!

kiowawarrior31

Peacekeeper83

Semper Fi! brothers and sisters...we all have joined the military for many different reasons...bottom line is...as Native People..we have always served in the military one way or another..since the forming of this country...Native People were part of the military..pre revolutionary war..on thru the present...
I served in 7 years as a Marine...my father served,his father served...countless uncles served..all thru history my family has served..we don't serve the needs of "the man" we serve the needs of Our People.Its not a glorious job by no means...ask anyone who served...money isn't great...you get to dress like everyone else....ect ect...but knowing you have made a difference in someone elses life makes a difference...I served in Beirut back in 83...I saw more death than anyone should be allowed to witness.....but truthfully...some of my fondest memories,over there..are of the elders shaking my hand...thanking me for bringing them peace..children bringing us strawberries.as gifts...with my People..strawberries are significant....what I was doing there..had nothing to do with "the man" it was bringing peace to a people who didn't have it...it wasn't about land..oil...taking someones culture...it was about peace...and to be honest about it...I feel proud I had that opportunity.Yes,I got the opportunity to earn my war honors...
Many of OUR NATIVE Brothers and Sisters have died..so those of you can voice your opinion..one way or the other...and I am proud of them...when I sing the honoring songs..it means something...the veteran songs means something..when I dance...I dance for them...I dance with their Spirits...for me...it is an Honor to have served..i

Stirbaby

Of course i cannot judge you. I am not qualified to read your heart.
And that is my point.
when you kill another, I beleive that is judging, and excuting, another.
I cannot do it.
Not because it is not my nature, for my nature is to kill, steal, rape, and pillage.
But, I take strength and direction from the Great Spirit, and I do my part, which is to please my God.
You may provoke me into killing, but it is not my plan, i will not train for it, and I will be deadly wrong IF I do .
I am Timucua Nation, Potano Tribe.
We are no more but in the echos of my heart.
I listen and follow those echos.
My people were attacked by the Creek, and taken as slaves.
We were sold to the british invaders as breeding stock for the African slaves.
So, who do I war against.
Myself.
I fight the natural man and build the spiritual man.
I must have faith that my god will defend me.
It is better to have my blood feed the fields, than to have my soul feed the devil.
i will not fight you, or anyone else.
I love my God to much, and it is my God who made this country, and it is my God who will defend it.
FAITH.
It is the biggest battle of my life.Of course i cannot judge you. I am not qualified to read your heart.

cougarwalker

i believe people need to follow their heart wherever it may lead. if that is serving to protect the few freedoms we have so be it. my husband is military and i sacrifice alot as a military spouse so my husband can put his life on the line (and sometimes we are not much safer) to protect the rights we all have. ya know the little things like "freedom of speech" the right to a fair and speedy trial" the right to an attorney" etc. with out the military we would not have the luxury of the democracy we live in. i move every 3 yrs. sometimes to better sometimes to substandard conditions. and we do it because we love our country and all the people in it.
the only one who can lay real claim to the land is the one who Created it. we were all put here on earth to share it. i think we ought to concentrate more on working together and making life better for everyone.
wooo ! sorry didnt mean to be soo long winded! cougie

Stirbaby

"i believe people need to follow their heart wherever it may lead. "

what if our heart is wrong, and is not in line with the heart of god.
Can you think of any war where BOTH sides did not have God on their side?

"if that is serving to protect the few freedoms we have so be it. "

What if this country is stomping on the freedoms of other indigenous people.
Imagine the irony our ancestors must see in their descendants, under the flag that they fought against, are killing the indigenous people of gods other lands.
That would make us thugs, not freedom fighters.


"my husband is military and i sacrifice allot as a military spouse so my husband can put his life on the line (and sometimes we are not much safer) to protect the rights we all have. "


You are the unique case of a family that is not in the military for the opportunities for steady pay, health coverage, education, and carrier possibilities. I know few .

"ya know the little things like "freedom of speech" "

What does Freedom of speech do for you if your voice is not heard.
If a tree falls in the forest , does it make a sound.
If freedom of speech meant ANYTHING, Leonard would not still be in jail.
He is in jail to teach the indigenous people of this land, that they should learn their place.
Leonard is in prison to keep you and me on a short leash.
Freedom of speech is nothing without the freedom to be heard
"the right to a fair and speedy trial" "

Fair trails in USA. When did his start.

"the right to an attorney" etc. "

Big money gets OJ off everytime.

'with out the military we would not have the luxury of the democracy we live in. "
Our government is not a democracy, it is a republic.
Big money pays poor people to defend their business interest.
We get crumbs and war so they can have the cake and eat it too.
Just study the military career of George w. Bush, and see this truth in action.

"i move every 3 yrs. sometimes to better sometimes to substandard conditions. "
Be honest, would you sleep outside. No.
they give you as little as they can to get the poor to do their fighting.
and we do it because we love our country and all the people in it.
Are you kidding yourself, or just me.

"the only one who can lay real claim to the land is the one who Created it. "
My point exactly, we are on the same page on this. this is not anyone's land but Gods

"we were all put here on earth to share it. "

Give me a list of Reservations with an oceanfront view. The cowboys had a name for the reservations... Bad Lands

"i think we ought to concentrate more on working together and making life better for everyone.
woo ! sorry didn't mean to be so long winded! cougie"

Cougie, i am glad you have shared your thoughts.
I have two sons in the service, and I was raised in the military.
The battles we will win will not be fought with guns, but with the power of our faith in god.
Please forgive me if i have insulted you, hurt you, are offended you.
you are a wonderful and bright woman. it is my honor to have you to discuss these important things with.
These views are mine. i can only vouch for my feelings, not gods.
Stir in Peace my friend,
Casey


Saint Augustine, Florida, USA
Save The Ichetucknee River.
STIR America
http://www.stiramerica.com/

amo

People first...family...oral traditions...Creator...Treaties with United States...how we live up to our our People's way of life for our children and our elders future(not necessarliy in that order mentioned above, but close to it). It is up to the individual to serve in the military and protect his home land for their people's way of life (or best way we know how to carry on our traditional way of life amonst our people culture). Too, many words. Forgive me it I offended anybody. Thank you.

Stirbaby

If any people should know enough about the USA stamping on indigenous peoples, it is native Americans. Our ancestors , what must they think of their children now, wrapping themselves in the American flag, killing indigenous children in other lands.
The USA lies, to us then, to us now, and to us tomorrow.
I pledge allegiance to no flag.
I pledge allegiance to God.
If you don't know about the USA, then you should educate yourself before you draw the blood of another.
We know better.
Was Geronimo a terrorist, a patriot, a freedom fighter?
Would you fight Geronimo?
Ask your spirit.
Would you kill Sitting Bull?
Ask your spirit.

cougarwalker

no offence taken. as you say those are your views and you are entitled to them.
but what if:
the nazis had been allowed to conquer europe? do you not think that they would have come here and slaughtered all that opposed them? would you have any rights to voice your opinion then? would the Nazi regime have allowed the Native Americans to live let alone practice any form of religion different from theirs?
And i would rather have the Right to Freedom of Speech than to not have a voice at all! just as we choose to speak we also choose to listen. if you are not being heard it is because as humans we have the Right to not hear as well.
Fair Trials? the majority i think are. there is always room for improvement and mistakes do get made , as in leonards case.

im not saying that our government is perfect. im not saying that there arent many peoples who are oppressed in the U.S. or by the U.S. all forms of governments have problems. mainly due to the fact that they try to control things that are beyond their control. Creator should be governing us. we cannot govern ourselves. history proves this.
Native Americans killed each other, took one anothers hunting grounds, property and made slaves out of others long before white man came. even we were not perfect.
as for my husbands love for his country? i would never question it. he has known since he was 6 yrs old that he wanted to serve and preserve our freedoms. you assume that the pay , health benefits and housing is why we are military? anyone who knows anything about the military knows these are NO incentives.
im not kidding anyone. this is MY LIFE and that of MY CHILDRENS you assume i joke with. and i can assure you that would not happen.
what it really comes down to is would YOU live anywhere else and still have (what you dont even consider) Rights?
please know that i say this in a respectful way and hope it does not come off as mean-spirited. i just dont type as well as i can speak so it tends to sound tactless.
may Creator Bless ALL of us. cougie

Stirbaby

Couga,
First, thank you for the peace and understanding you extend to me.
you have a campfire that is more than pleasant to gather around.
I come to this discussion hindered by not knowing the other members of this thread.
It is a credit to all , and I mean ALL, here that i can discuss issues about life, death, and patriotism and god, and give a different point of view, a vie some would say is unpatriotic, and still be allowed to be heard.
I am blessed to have the opportunity to be among such a wise and empathetic people.
Now, about the Nazis.
The back story on Germany, during those times preceding WWII, is that the Commercial interest outside Germany were using its desperate position, after its defeat in WWI, as an opportunity to expand their markets at the cost to the commercial interest of German companies.
This , in a world that was already under severe financial hardship of a very global depression, was putting the people of Germany, especially the workers, in a near starvation position.
( This was a little like the Japan problem, where Japan was growing and Western commercial interest, who for 200 years , had exploited and persecuted most of the far east. Japan has NO oil resources, and Western powers, using national military and political clout, to force a boycott of selling ANY oil to the Japanese. Do you see a pattern here of the wealthy elite, out of fear of having to become regular folks like you and me, would use there recourses, financial, political, and religious, to get western workers to suit up, leave home, and point their bayonets at the lifeblood of commercial interest of other people. This nothing new. Its why the wars have been fought since Cain killed Able.)
Now remember who the Germanic tribe was. They are Celtic, a warrior race, who kept the Romans from Taking over Europe, kept the Huns out of Europe, and thru this had become a strong, proud, efficient, and organized people with a long history of ruling themselves. I mean, the royal family of England is German, as well as 40% of all the Royal lines in Europe.
These people, people like you and me, were STARVING. The financial elite , who had enjoyed hundreds of years of comfortable and secure lifestyles, needed to find some way to regain their lifestyle , and security.
AND, they , the Germans, had a legal and historical claim to lands taken from them in the division of their lands after WWI. ( We can get into the how, who, and why of WWI at a later date. It really is quite interesting).
Now remember, most people don't want to fight. they , as i, would rather stay home, mow the yard, and sleep in late.
they must be provoked to leave home and die. Its is not a normal desire, it must be encouraged by outside forces.
The biggest emotion, the single driving force, of all humans is fear.
And the hungrier we are , the more we are likely to fear.
Well. these Financial elites say these hungry and scared people as an economic opportunity waiting to be exploited. And they acted on this.
Just as the Bush family is not the real power behind USA power, Hitler, and the Nazis, were not the real power behind the Nation of Germany. ( As an aside, the Bush family is German).
Today, most of Americas financial elite would prefer a fascist form of government.
Fascism can be boiled down to this.
The elite, feeling they are the elite because they have been anointed by god to be the elite, see the people as needing some direction, a big babysitter, so they run things for all us po' ignorant folks.
Fascism is like a corporation.
The owners make the rules, and if you dont get in line, you have a very bad day

Now that i have laid out some of the backstory, lets look into your thesis.
but what if: the nazis had been allowed to conquer Europe?
Just like the USA says it is not "conquering Iraq and Aphganistan" today, the Germans saw themselves not conquering Europe.
Remember, the winners right the History. Like , Columbus "discovered America", the "pioneers settled the West, so on and so on.

Germans took a part of Poland that had been German for more than a thousand years, part of France that spoke German, and took Bavaria and Austria, all lands that had always been German.
Remember how France sold most of America to the USA. Did your ancestors get a piece of that deal?
Nations had split up the German homeland, and the Germans, once rearmed, did what they believed, and there is a good argument that can be made, did the just and right thing by bringing "freedom" back to the German people who had been unjustly separated from the motherland.
They fought the rest of Europe as the rest of Europe attacked the Germans, in an effort to keep Germans from uniting as one autonomous state.
we must always remember that these people, a Celtic people, were, at their core, very similar to Native Americans, in culture, lifestyle, government, spiritual, economic, and they were pretty good dancer and warriors as well.
There is a reason the Germanic tribes still exist today.
They are a tuff, determined, and motivated tribe.
Do you speak Italian?
Then thank a German.
(infact, German is the root language of English)
So, the Germanic people did not set out to conquer anyone.
they were their own freedom fighters. they were putting their house, their own house taken by others, back in order.
There had to be a reason these people got out of a warm bed with a hot frauline to put on their lederhosen and leave home, sleep out in the rain, and get their asses shot off .
They were not conquering, they were defending the rights of the Germanic people in the lands taken from them at the conclusion of WWI.
(I am not a big fan of the Germanic tribes, but i do enjoy knowing the truth)
do you not think that they would have come here and slaughtered all that opposed them?
No. there is absolutely no basis to believe that.
Let me ask this. do you think it is the interest of the USA to spread its influence around the globe?
That is how Empires are built. And you must agree that the USA is a global empire.
would the Nazi regime have allowed the Native Americans to live let alone practice any form of religion different from theirs?
NO. You are right. They would have put their God on our money, in our courtrooms, and made our children pledge allegiance to their God at the start of every school day, and pray to their god at the start of sporting events, parades, government meetings..... wait, am I describing what the USA government does to Native Americans?
Yes i am.
Most Native Americans do no have the freedoms that you ask about. In fact, most native Americans cant even speak their own language. in fact, most native Americans can tell you little about their God, their Language, and usually use USA money, not their own.
Imagine if the Germans killed us off, and put the survivors in reservations.
Not much difference between the USA and Hitler's Germany. Some differences, but more similarities

you talked about many important things. i will think about them all.
I am honored to share these issues with you.
you are a woman with great compassion and wisdom.
You do me a great service with your time , and thoughts.
i am in your debt.
I have much to learn, and good teachers, as you are, are the greatest blessing in my life.
And for others rea