Aborigenes not Indians!

arnaldo · 07-23-2003, 12:41 PM

I do not belong to any tribe, maybe someday, if I am invited. My thinking is about the word indian, Native American Indian. We are still using this word, and it does bothers me. The word ABORIGENE, I think is more appropriate when reffering to all the "first people". I think it gives the "people" power. "Yes, we were the first!" I would like to know, how do you feel about this issue, and what can we do about it?, if anything.

Tsiniti · 07-30-2003, 12:09 AM

Except we don't want to be confused with the Austrailian Aboriginals .......

But that may come with time, after all I can remember Black people getting mad if you called them Black, no they are African Americans, then NO they are Colords .... then NO they are Black .... Then Black Americans ...... who can keep up?

I really prefer to be called human more than anything my self personally ...... American after that, then Native American, then Cherokee, then if I don't have any other recourse, then I will admit that I'm a person I'm not Red(unless I'm way too long in the Sun, and get a Sunburn), because I'm Brown, I'm not white, because I'm BROWN, I'm not black, because Grandma would spin in her grave if anyone even suggested it ..... but who knows? I'm just me!

I am not an original people, but of the original people, that does not say I'm not an original person .....

I'm just not an Aboriginy..... I can't even fake a good Aussie Accent ..... Good Day Mate!

Tsiniti · 07-30-2003, 12:15 AM

Exactly which Tribal Nation would get that distinction of being first? After all many of the Nations say they were first! The Anastasi? The Pueblos? oh good heavens I can't even begin to go there! Even the Cherokee can claim they were amoung the first! There are supposedly Cherokee remains found somewhere, dating back 5 thousand years BEFORE man ever crossed the Bearing Strait, now what?

Have I got any arguments going yet? Good debates? Anyone else with ideas here?

arnaldo · 08-02-2003, 08:47 PM

Thank you for expressing your thoughts in such an elloquent way! The New Grolier Webster International Dictionary; Aborigine: one of the first inhabitants of a country especially as opposed to foreign invaders or colonist; the original animals and flowers of a region. This definition does not say anything about Australian Aborigines. No, you are not an aborigine. You are of aboriginal descent. So, I didn't mean to insult your intelligence by this, if I did I appollagize. Do you think the "people" would get mad if they were to be called Aborigine? The word, I think, gives power to the user, and a sense of ownership. This will takes us away from Columbus idea of this land be consider India. Yes, each of the tribes want to be call by their tribal name, just like Hispanics feeling proud of their own country( Mexicans, Puerto Ricans, Nicaraguans, Cubans,etc) of origen. This does not mean they don't like to be called Hispanics, referering to all as one. There is no such thing as white or black. The skin is made out of brown pigmentation. It comes in shades of light brown, we prefer to call it white, to brown, to dark chocolate brown, we prefer to call it "black". Unless, you lack pigmentation then, you are white like paper, or albino. So, we are all brown but, in different shades. We are all animals, and belong to the human beings. But since, we all are unique, and territorial, we prefer to be called by the names that our closest relatives, or territorial people call themselves, and that is your clan or tribal name. Yes, we are humans! Native American we all are, if you were born in any of the Americas. If you were born in the USA, you are an american citizen from North America. If you ask a native american from Mexico about the United States, he/she is going to ask you which United States. Are you talking about the United States of Mexico? You see, everybody belongs somewhere. Yes, you are original. No other person is like you. But, when another group of people, like the Euros, calls you by a name, or relates to you by another group of people you are not, that is wrong! They are not going to change it until you decide to change it. They do not care, until you care. Be proud of comming from aboriginal people. The name gives you power and ownership. Be proud to be distinguished by the name of your tribe because, they are unique. But be willing to be part of them, all the "People". This will give you strenght, and more power! Aslong we stay devided, we are not going to be recognize, just a picture on the wall from a time past. I am not talking about getting the land back. But it will start giving us credit for all the contributions given to this great nation by not only our ancestors but, the "people" of today. Who knows, we might even see buffalos running in our rez, run by aborigines, or a special day during the year where we can take a herd of buffalo and steer them along "the trail of tears, a 'buffalo drive". I guess I am a dreamer!

Tsiniti · 08-02-2003, 10:35 PM

No you are not a dreamer, rather a thinker!

You didn't insult my intelligence, so don't worry about that, I was just giving my personal thoughts. To me Aborigenie is a Native Australian ..... who knows maybe in about 50 years all the Native Americans will choose to be called that, we will just have to wait and see .....

Hey don't forget that there really is such a thing as an albino Black ...... what a contridiction in terms, but there they are ...

If we didn't think differently we wouldn't have so many different ideas! Nothing wrong in that!

arnaldo · 08-03-2003, 02:51 AM

I am very happy I did not offended you! I hope we don't have to wait 50 years for the awakening! Fifty years is a long time, two generations? Yes, I used to have a friend in 11th grade whose physical features were those of a black person. She used to have broad lips and "griffi" hair but, the color of her hair was blond, light grayish eyes, and "white" skin color. Nice looking girl! It is too bad I can remember her name. This is my fault!

OILCAN · 08-03-2003, 10:10 AM

MY NAME IS OILCAN AND I AM AN INDUN :p

arnaldo · 08-03-2003, 10:32 PM

Hi Oilcan! What do you think about our conversation?

OILCAN · 08-03-2003, 10:57 PM

I am not claiming that our people way up here in the Maine area were the first, but our history goes back over 12,000 years. Archeologists have found evidence of that in Maine and Eastern Canada.
We have some petroglyphs here on a ledge in one of our rivers that date back 5000 years that were made by my ancestors. I like to call it "history written in stone." The ledge contains legends and teachings that are still prominent in our life today. We have some similar etchings to that of the Anastasi and the other older glyphs found around North America. A common form of language perhaps?

We weren't Indians until Columbus landed. I was told that we were just called "The People."

So I guess you could say, by definition, that we are aboriginal. But when i hear aboriginal, I think of the Outback of Australia.

Tsiniti · 08-04-2003, 10:16 PM

See? I'm not the only one! :)

But in your defense, I brought this up to my brother and step father, and they both said "well it's what we are" but not what I'd like to be called .....

DeusExMachina · 08-05-2003, 01:50 PM

Well, I prefer First Nations or just plain ole Mvskoke. I will hit someone if the call me an "indian" and I hate the term "Native American" too.

We were all established and Civilized NATIONS (a tribe refers to a grouping of animals) well before some smelly, pasty, backwards savage floated over here on a piece of wood and started insulting our intelligence with his garbled animal-grunt language.

I will use the term Native, but not with American unless I'm trying to make a point.

Feathers · 08-20-2003, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by crabbyolebear
I will use the term Native, but not with American unless I'm trying to make a point.

I am Cherokee first and foremost. Then yes I am American, after all I'm not Japanese or Canadian! I am of the Eastern Band of Cherokee in the USA, if people can't understand that then I don't have a problem teaching them why I am who I am.

07-23-2003, 12:41 PM	#1 (permalink)
arnaldo Pow Wow Visitor Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Forest Grove, Oregon Posts: 8	Aborigenes not Indians! I do not belong to any tribe, maybe someday, if I am invited. My thinking is about the word indian, Native American Indian. We are still using this word, and it does bothers me. The word ABORIGENE, I think is more appropriate when reffering to all the "first people". I think it gives the "people" power. "Yes, we were the first!" I would like to know, how do you feel about this issue, and what can we do about it?, if anything. __________________ BrownWolf

07-30-2003, 12:09 AM	#2 (permalink)
Tsiniti Dancin n Vendin Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: TN Posts: 295	Except we don't want to be confused with the Austrailian Aboriginals ....... But that may come with time, after all I can remember Black people getting mad if you called them Black, no they are African Americans, then NO they are Colords .... then NO they are Black .... Then Black Americans ...... who can keep up? I really prefer to be called human more than anything my self personally ...... American after that, then Native American, then Cherokee, then if I don't have any other recourse, then I will admit that I'm a person I'm not Red(unless I'm way too long in the Sun, and get a Sunburn), because I'm Brown, I'm not white, because I'm BROWN, I'm not black, because Grandma would spin in her grave if anyone even suggested it ..... but who knows? I'm just me! I am not an original people, but of the original people, that does not say I'm not an original person ..... I'm just not an Aboriginy..... I can't even fake a good Aussie Accent ..... Good Day Mate! __________________ Your Heart Shows by how Your Words and Actions Affect Others. Nah I ain't NO WANNABE! I don't gotta wannabe when people wannabe like me! Last edited by Tsiniti; 07-30-2003 at 12:16 AM.

07-30-2003, 12:15 AM	#3 (permalink)
Tsiniti Dancin n Vendin Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: TN Posts: 295	By the Way Exactly which Tribal Nation would get that distinction of being first? After all many of the Nations say they were first! The Anastasi? The Pueblos? oh good heavens I can't even begin to go there! Even the Cherokee can claim they were amoung the first! There are supposedly Cherokee remains found somewhere, dating back 5 thousand years BEFORE man ever crossed the Bearing Strait, now what? Have I got any arguments going yet? Good debates? Anyone else with ideas here? __________________ Your Heart Shows by how Your Words and Actions Affect Others. Nah I ain't NO WANNABE! I don't gotta wannabe when people wannabe like me!

08-02-2003, 08:47 PM	#4 (permalink)
arnaldo Pow Wow Visitor Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Forest Grove, Oregon Posts: 8	Aborigines Thank you for expressing your thoughts in such an elloquent way! The New Grolier Webster International Dictionary; Aborigine: one of the first inhabitants of a country especially as opposed to foreign invaders or colonist; the original animals and flowers of a region. This definition does not say anything about Australian Aborigines. No, you are not an aborigine. You are of aboriginal descent. So, I didn't mean to insult your intelligence by this, if I did I appollagize. Do you think the "people" would get mad if they were to be called Aborigine? The word, I think, gives power to the user, and a sense of ownership. This will takes us away from Columbus idea of this land be consider India. Yes, each of the tribes want to be call by their tribal name, just like Hispanics feeling proud of their own country( Mexicans, Puerto Ricans, Nicaraguans, Cubans,etc) of origen. This does not mean they don't like to be called Hispanics, referering to all as one. There is no such thing as white or black. The skin is made out of brown pigmentation. It comes in shades of light brown, we prefer to call it white, to brown, to dark chocolate brown, we prefer to call it "black". Unless, you lack pigmentation then, you are white like paper, or albino. So, we are all brown but, in different shades. We are all animals, and belong to the human beings. But since, we all are unique, and territorial, we prefer to be called by the names that our closest relatives, or territorial people call themselves, and that is your clan or tribal name. Yes, we are humans! Native American we all are, if you were born in any of the Americas. If you were born in the USA, you are an american citizen from North America. If you ask a native american from Mexico about the United States, he/she is going to ask you which United States. Are you talking about the United States of Mexico? You see, everybody belongs somewhere. Yes, you are original. No other person is like you. But, when another group of people, like the Euros, calls you by a name, or relates to you by another group of people you are not, that is wrong! They are not going to change it until you decide to change it. They do not care, until you care. Be proud of comming from aboriginal people. The name gives you power and ownership. Be proud to be distinguished by the name of your tribe because, they are unique. But be willing to be part of them, all the "People". This will give you strenght, and more power! Aslong we stay devided, we are not going to be recognize, just a picture on the wall from a time past. I am not talking about getting the land back. But it will start giving us credit for all the contributions given to this great nation by not only our ancestors but, the "people" of today. Who knows, we might even see buffalos running in our rez, run by aborigines, or a special day during the year where we can take a herd of buffalo and steer them along "the trail of tears, a 'buffalo drive". I guess I am a dreamer! __________________ BrownWolf

08-02-2003, 10:35 PM	#5 (permalink)
Tsiniti Dancin n Vendin Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: TN Posts: 295	No you are not a dreamer, rather a thinker! You didn't insult my intelligence, so don't worry about that, I was just giving my personal thoughts. To me Aborigenie is a Native Australian ..... who knows maybe in about 50 years all the Native Americans will choose to be called that, we will just have to wait and see ..... Hey don't forget that there really is such a thing as an albino Black ...... what a contridiction in terms, but there they are ... If we didn't think differently we wouldn't have so many different ideas! Nothing wrong in that! __________________ Your Heart Shows by how Your Words and Actions Affect Others. Nah I ain't NO WANNABE! I don't gotta wannabe when people wannabe like me!

08-03-2003, 02:51 AM	#6 (permalink)
arnaldo Pow Wow Visitor Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Forest Grove, Oregon Posts: 8	Aborigines I am very happy I did not offended you! I hope we don't have to wait 50 years for the awakening! Fifty years is a long time, two generations? Yes, I used to have a friend in 11th grade whose physical features were those of a black person. She used to have broad lips and "griffi" hair but, the color of her hair was blond, light grayish eyes, and "white" skin color. Nice looking girl! It is too bad I can remember her name. This is my fault! __________________ BrownWolf

08-03-2003, 10:10 AM	#7 (permalink)
OILCAN Junior Dancer Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Indian Island, ME Posts: 177	MY NAME IS OILCAN AND I AM AN INDUN :p

08-03-2003, 10:32 PM	#8 (permalink)
arnaldo Pow Wow Visitor Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Forest Grove, Oregon Posts: 8	Indun Hi Oilcan! What do you think about our conversation? __________________ BrownWolf

08-03-2003, 10:57 PM	#9 (permalink)
OILCAN Junior Dancer Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Indian Island, ME Posts: 177	I am not claiming that our people way up here in the Maine area were the first, but our history goes back over 12,000 years. Archeologists have found evidence of that in Maine and Eastern Canada. We have some petroglyphs here on a ledge in one of our rivers that date back 5000 years that were made by my ancestors. I like to call it "history written in stone." The ledge contains legends and teachings that are still prominent in our life today. We have some similar etchings to that of the Anastasi and the other older glyphs found around North America. A common form of language perhaps? We weren't Indians until Columbus landed. I was told that we were just called "The People." So I guess you could say, by definition, that we are aboriginal. But when i hear aboriginal, I think of the Outback of Australia.

08-04-2003, 10:16 PM	#10 (permalink)
Tsiniti Dancin n Vendin Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: TN Posts: 295	See? I'm not the only one! :) But in your defense, I brought this up to my brother and step father, and they both said "well it's what we are" but not what I'd like to be called ..... __________________ Your Heart Shows by how Your Words and Actions Affect Others. Nah I ain't NO WANNABE! I don't gotta wannabe when people wannabe like me!

08-05-2003, 01:50 PM	#11 (permalink)
DeusExMachina Divine Scientific Genius Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: In yr house, clogging yr toiletz Posts: 805	Well, I prefer First Nations or just plain ole Mvskoke. I will hit someone if the call me an "indian" and I hate the term "Native American" too. We were all established and Civilized NATIONS (a tribe refers to a grouping of animals) well before some smelly, pasty, backwards savage floated over here on a piece of wood and started insulting our intelligence with his garbled animal-grunt language. I will use the term Native, but not with American unless I'm trying to make a point. __________________ Mad Scientists Union Local 42 Evil Geniuses For a Better Tomorrow The secret of my succes is 30% natural talent, 10% inspiration, and the remaining 60% is just the fact that I am nucking futs.

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