Side-stitch Chokers?

Historian · 09-17-2003, 02:50 PM

I was hoping that someone out there would have some suggestions as to how to learn more about the side-stitch chokers you see on many Ponca and Osage men (Straight Dancers or Portraits) in old 1800s photos.

Since most of the side-stitch chokers are very thin, getting a good idea of what the design element is, proves very difficult. Besides, all the photos are in black and white anyway, so design color is another issue.

Lastly, I have had a difficult time finding any information on the construction techniques of a side stitch choker.

Anyone have any suggestions?

BeadMan · 09-18-2003, 04:28 PM

Some of my chokers

BeadMan · 09-18-2003, 04:30 PM

Another

BeadMan · 09-18-2003, 04:32 PM

Last one of mine.

Here are some historic examples in color:

http://www.powwows.com/galleries/sho...sort=1&cat=500

CHEROSAGE · 09-19-2003, 01:10 AM

Hey there Beadman those are very nice chokers.

Thank you for letting us see these.

WolfTears · 09-19-2003, 01:29 AM

excellent work as always!

Tara · 09-19-2003, 08:15 AM

Beadman, Neat pictures! Diagonally woven collars of wampum are worn in the Northeast, it looks to be the same weaving technique. Here's one I made.

Historian, I dont think there are any instructions on the net for the technique, basically it's like fingerweaving with one end anchored, the other end free, you have two threads that go through each bead you string on diagonally across and you pull the sets of strings from the previous row inbetween the strings of the row you are putting on. Use the endwarp for each subsequent row (making it the weft) and leave it dangling on the opposite end of the row as a warp for the next row. Would be easier with a diagram, I have one on nativetech in the beadworking techniques, but my site is apparently down today.

Tara

tcumonster · 09-19-2003, 10:21 AM

I think there is a chapter in David Dean's book "Beading in the Native American Traditions" that discusses side stitch. The illistrations are very easy to understand and the text is well written. Hope this helps.

BeadMan · 09-19-2003, 01:59 PM

There was a discussion a long time ago in the beadwork forum about sidestitch. You might go there and spark up that flame again. Also try PM-ing BlackBear, she can find just about anything beadwork related on the web.

Tara, great pic!

ingrambead · 12-01-2003, 09:24 PM

Hi Historian,

I was just browsing around and found this thread. Have you gotten anywhere with the chokers? I did a couple of artcles in magazines on the diagonal weave technique (another name for sidestitch). They were in Threads Magazine June July 1994 and Beadwork, june july 2001. Its an easy technique once you get going and its not done with needles.

Ingrambead

C_Rock77 · 01-05-2004, 01:31 AM

Bead Man's a whiz at sidestitch.. I've never seen anyone pick up beading techniques as quickly or as well as that kid! I've also never even HEARD of anyone being able to side-stitch as fast as him.

How's that "secret" method working out, Adam?

powwow · 01-14-2004, 12:12 PM

Hey Adam,

Long time, no talk. I hear you're doing pretty well for yourself out there in CA. DC's been treating me well. May be moving back to Oklahoma next Fall...we'll see about that. I'll keep you posted.

Sorry I haven't been around in a while guys....Life took me on a detour for a while, but I'm back on the road again.

powwow · 01-14-2004, 12:15 PM

WOW! I don't post much for two or three years and I go down to zero experience! That's rough man. :Mad

:)

powwow · 01-15-2004, 04:15 PM

Thanks. It's been a while, I know. I actually came back onto the board to find out some info on a local powwow and decided to see what was going on.

The straight dancing board sure has slowed down since I was last active.

Is Brian still around? I haven't talked to him in a while. I should give him a call.

Have you made it out to Redhook yet? I missed it last year due to my sister getting married on the same day. I'll be there this June, though.

Later!

Historian · 01-29-2007, 11:07 AM

What other Oklahoma tribes, besides Ponca and Osage, wore or wear "side-stitch" chokers?

Fat Albert · 01-29-2007, 12:20 PM

I am finding it all over old photos of Oto, Sac n Fox and related tribes. In my part of Oklahoma we have been looking at the beadwork on aprons and in many cases there is a side stitch choker to top it off. A lot of the tribes that had side stitch hair binders for women had side stitch chokers on the men. I have seen a pair of side stitch garters. I have seen these made from horse hair, linen thread and so on. This is a great topic to bring back up Historian!

09-17-2003, 02:50 PM	#1 (permalink)
Historian Experienced Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Earth Posts: 1,020	Side-stitch Chokers? I was hoping that someone out there would have some suggestions as to how to learn more about the side-stitch chokers you see on many Ponca and Osage men (Straight Dancers or Portraits) in old 1800s photos. Since most of the side-stitch chokers are very thin, getting a good idea of what the design element is, proves very difficult. Besides, all the photos are in black and white anyway, so design color is another issue. Lastly, I have had a difficult time finding any information on the construction techniques of a side stitch choker. Anyone have any suggestions? __________________ "Be good, be kind, help each other. Respect the ground, respect the drum, respect each other." --Abe Conklin, Ponca/Osage (1926-1995)

09-19-2003, 01:10 AM	#5 (permalink)
CHEROSAGE Pow Wow Committee Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: , mo Posts: 1,342	Hey there Beadman those are very nice chokers. Thank you for letting us see these. __________________ BOB

01-29-2007, 11:07 AM	#15 (permalink)
Historian Experienced Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Earth Posts: 1,020	What other Oklahoma tribes, besides Ponca and Osage, wore or wear "side-stitch" chokers? __________________ "Be good, be kind, help each other. Respect the ground, respect the drum, respect each other." --Abe Conklin, Ponca/Osage (1926-1995)

09-19-2003, 01:29 AM	#6 (permalink)
WolfTears StrongWillowsSister Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Nashville Tenn Posts: 804	excellent work as always!

09-19-2003, 08:15 AM	#7 (permalink)
Tara Tiny Tot Dancer Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: northeast Posts: 65	Beadman, Neat pictures! Diagonally woven collars of wampum are worn in the Northeast, it looks to be the same weaving technique. Here's one I made. Historian, I dont think there are any instructions on the net for the technique, basically it's like fingerweaving with one end anchored, the other end free, you have two threads that go through each bead you string on diagonally across and you pull the sets of strings from the previous row inbetween the strings of the row you are putting on. Use the endwarp for each subsequent row (making it the weft) and leave it dangling on the opposite end of the row as a warp for the next row. Would be easier with a diagram, I have one on nativetech in the beadworking techniques, but my site is apparently down today. Tara

09-19-2003, 10:21 AM	#8 (permalink)
tcumonster Tiny Tot Dancer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 90	I think there is a chapter in David Dean's book "Beading in the Native American Traditions" that discusses side stitch. The illistrations are very easy to understand and the text is well written. Hope this helps.

09-19-2003, 01:59 PM	#9 (permalink)
BeadMan Beadworker Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Northeast Iowa Posts: 410	There was a discussion a long time ago in the beadwork forum about sidestitch. You might go there and spark up that flame again. Also try PM-ing BlackBear, she can find just about anything beadwork related on the web. Tara, great pic!

12-01-2003, 09:24 PM	#10 (permalink)
ingrambead Tiny Tot Dancer Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Northern New Mexico High Mt. Desert. Posts: 43	Hi Historian, I was just browsing around and found this thread. Have you gotten anywhere with the chokers? I did a couple of artcles in magazines on the diagonal weave technique (another name for sidestitch). They were in Threads Magazine June July 1994 and Beadwork, june july 2001. Its an easy technique once you get going and its not done with needles. Ingrambead

01-05-2004, 01:31 AM	#11 (permalink)
C_Rock77 Tiny Tot Dancer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Little Rock, AR Posts: 88	Bead Man's a whiz at sidestitch.. I've never seen anyone pick up beading techniques as quickly or as well as that kid! I've also never even HEARD of anyone being able to side-stitch as fast as him. How's that "secret" method working out, Adam?

01-14-2004, 12:12 PM	#12 (permalink)
powwow Pow Wow Visitor Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: Washington, D.C. Posts: 17	Hey Adam, Long time, no talk. I hear you're doing pretty well for yourself out there in CA. DC's been treating me well. May be moving back to Oklahoma next Fall...we'll see about that. I'll keep you posted. Sorry I haven't been around in a while guys....Life took me on a detour for a while, but I'm back on the road again.

01-14-2004, 12:15 PM	#13 (permalink)
powwow Pow Wow Visitor Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: Washington, D.C. Posts: 17	WOW! I don't post much for two or three years and I go down to zero experience! That's rough man. :Mad :)

01-15-2004, 04:15 PM	#14 (permalink)
powwow Pow Wow Visitor Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: Washington, D.C. Posts: 17	Thanks. It's been a while, I know. I actually came back onto the board to find out some info on a local powwow and decided to see what was going on. The straight dancing board sure has slowed down since I was last active. Is Brian still around? I haven't talked to him in a while. I should give him a call. Have you made it out to Redhook yet? I missed it last year due to my sister getting married on the same day. I'll be there this June, though. Later!

01-29-2007, 12:20 PM	#16 (permalink)
Fat Albert Eater of all frybread!! Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Planet Earth Posts: 331	I am finding it all over old photos of Oto, Sac n Fox and related tribes. In my part of Oklahoma we have been looking at the beadwork on aprons and in many cases there is a side stitch choker to top it off. A lot of the tribes that had side stitch hair binders for women had side stitch chokers on the men. I have seen a pair of side stitch garters. I have seen these made from horse hair, linen thread and so on. This is a great topic to bring back up Historian!

01-29-2007, 03:56 PM	#17 (permalink)
BeadMan Beadworker Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Northeast Iowa Posts: 410