asking for permission, to participate in a powwow

Thobias · 09-17-2007, 02:18 AM

Hi! im new to this forum
A little about myself first,
i am a swede ,i was born in sweden,
and ever since i was a child, i have always been interested in native american culture and life,
in 2004 i moved to Los Angeles, where my wife is born, we got married in 2006, and we are very happy together,i didnt get my green card until late 2006
not until now have i started to think that i could participate in a powwow,since i finally dont have to go back to sweden like every 3 months,
so i have been starting to finding all these websites of information, and now a couple a weeks ago , i found powwows.com
as i come to understand in order for me to participate, not being non native american, i must ask for permission, and wish for the best i guess?
who do i ask?
And im not a wannabee, im very proud to be a swede, and where im from, but i feel that my feelings for the culture of native americans is stronger, i feel more drawn to it,

my reasons for taking part of a powwow is not to compete,
it is my way to pay the utmost respect and sincere love for the true founders of this land, and to the culture and its people

In return i would be extremely honored myself
im doing my reasearch on the regalia
and i hope to dance the northern traditional
and im attending powwows this and next year to see how it is
preparations will take about 2 years if not more,
but i have to ask for permission ,and would very much appreciate some one who could help me

Im thanking anyone taking their time to respond in anyway to my thread , just know your taking your valuable time to write, may it be god or bad,
Thank You
sincerely Thobias

trob226 · 09-17-2007, 11:01 AM

Hi, Thobias, welcome. I think the way to start would be to attend as many powwows as a spectator as you can, support the native vendors by purchasing, talking to people, getting to know and be known, learning all you can before planning to participate in any other way. If you're new, you have a lot of learning to do first. I've been to several powwows over the years, but I still call myself a newbie. I enjoy being a spectator and don't plan to be more than that. There are many ways to show your respect.

**Eagle Plumes** · 09-17-2007, 02:56 PM

I agree with trob. Go and watch, support the people by purchasing their items. IM a native but yet I still add to my outfits. It does take time but its very enjoyable.

Barb · 09-17-2007, 05:22 PM

Hello Thobias what do you mean exactly by participate?

tsuj510 · 09-17-2007, 08:44 PM

Thobias-

I wanted to take a second and respond; my girlfriend and I will be marrying soon-her folks are Swedish (from near Gavle).

The Swedish culture is a beautiful thing, man, and something to be proud of. No doubt!

I wanted to share a lesson that I have learned recently, regarding life in general, not anything to do with being NDN, but anyway the lesson is, "Just becuase I WANT to do/can do/feel like I should do/something, does not mean I SHOULD"!

If you really really want to powwow, go as a spectator. If you really, really want to help Native culture thrive and to last, let US take care of that. I think overall we're doing just fine.

I think most folks here who are NDN would agree that some of the worst things that we have been through were a direct result of non-natives intruding where they had no business. Many times they acted without bad thoughts or intentions in their hearts and ended up hurting our folks anyhow. We love to have support from other communities and appreciate the fact that others enjoy aspects of our Cultures, but there is a point where support becomes intrusion and co-opting of Culture and this is not a good thing.

Come on out, watch, shoot eat frybread and dance some intertribals.... Support the local vendors and maybe pick up some trash off the ground if you really want to pitch in, but other than that, I think I can safely say we have the rest covered just fine.

Again, as I have stated to the regulars, I am just a young man and my opinion does not mean much yet, but there it is. I do not mean to offend, and hope I have not said anything innappropriate.

WaDo

Thobias · 09-18-2007, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsuj510

Thobias-

I wanted to take a second and respond; my girlfriend and I will be marrying soon-her folks are Swedish (from near Gavle).

The Swedish culture is a beautiful thing, man, and something to be proud of. No doubt!

I wanted to share a lesson that I have learned recently, regarding life in general, not anything to do with being NDN, but anyway the lesson is, "Just becuase I WANT to do/can do/feel like I should do/something, does not mean I SHOULD"!

If you really really want to powwow, go as a spectator. If you really, really want to help Native culture thrive and to last, let US take care of that. I think overall we're doing just fine.

I think most folks here who are NDN would agree that some of the worst things that we have been through were a direct result of non-natives intruding where they had no business. Many times they acted without bad thoughts or intentions in their hearts and ended up hurting our folks anyhow. We love to have support from other communities and appreciate the fact that others enjoy aspects of our Cultures, but there is a point where support becomes intrusion and co-opting of Culture and this is not a good thing.

Come on out, watch, shoot eat frybread and dance some intertribals.... Support the local vendors and maybe pick up some trash off the ground if you really want to pitch in, but other than that, I think I can safely say we have the rest covered just fine.

Again, as I have stated to the regulars, I am just a young man and my opinion does not mean much yet, but there it is. I do not mean to offend, and hope I have not said anything innappropriate.

WaDo

i like what your saying, of course you have a point, and you speak from your heart, i respect that
i want to say, that ,me wanting to dance powwow is not going to help making native americans having it better or worse, and i would not embarass anyone, im not some goofball, just wanting to dress like an "indian" (wich by the way ,i dont like to use,its misleading)
im "white" and my wife is of mexican heritage,im darker than her, in skin tone. but it did and doesnt matter, i live in a community with 95 % latinos, and i had alot of words thrown at me, white boy , or go back to whiteland, but i didnt care, and her brother and her cousins where bad too, but it was poking fun, cause now after a couple of years its good,
so now that you are getting married to someone with another background and race( wich doesnt matter of course), when you have kids , will you tell your son or daughter, that they cant participate cause they are not purely native , if you want to belong into a group it shouldnt matter what race you are, as long as you are willing to go by the traditions and rules that follows
,i only know one native american, he is navajo, he is a wonderful person, and i havent asked him yet about the powwow, will he get short with me and tell me that i will hurt his people by dancing
im 23 , i will take my years to collect my regalia, and my dancing will i practice on, its not against the law, to own native crafts or to dance,
i hope we can talk more, i like to hear voices not only saying go ahead just start dancing, you are showing me ,that it will take time and patience to get accepted,
its worth everything,
so again thank you for responding to my thread
it means alot
take care , and i hope to hear from you soon again
sincerely Thobias

Thobias · 09-18-2007, 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trob226

Hi, Thobias, welcome. I think the way to start would be to attend as many powwows as a spectator as you can, support the native vendors by purchasing, talking to people, getting to know and be known, learning all you can before planning to participate in any other way. If you're new, you have a lot of learning to do first. I've been to several powwows over the years, but I still call myself a newbie. I enjoy being a spectator and don't plan to be more than that. There are many ways to show your respect.

thank you for your response, i appreciate it ,
i have realized that its expensive to obtain everything you need for the regalia, it could take som time,
and also practice on dancing, but first i have to attend as a spectator as you say,
i dont want this to be easy,
again thank you for you time
hope to hear more from you
take care and have a nice day
sincerely thobias

Thobias · 09-18-2007, 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barb

Hello Thobias what do you mean exactly by participate?

Hi! thank you for replying to my thread.
If i get the chance ever, i would wish to dance the northern traditional, thats the dance im studying and practicing on,
my regalia , will be either from oglala, blackfeet or crow
of course im not asuming , my right to dance ,

hope to hear from you soon, thank you
sincerely Thobias

hobbs49 · 09-18-2007, 08:13 AM

Just a friendly reminder, the Spectators forum is a moderated forum. Anything posted here is reviewed by myself or Singing Eagle. As such, there is a delay between when you post and when it shows up here. Please understand that Singing Eagle and I try very hard to check and update all posts several times a day normally. Sometimes you get lucky and we're already online and respond quickly, other times, it may take hours. We get paid the same whether we approve the posts quickly or slowly :-)

tsuj510 · 09-18-2007, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thobias

i like what your saying, of course you have a point, and you speak from your heart, i respect that
i want to say, that ,me wanting to dance powwow is not going to help making native americans having it better or worse, and i would not embarass anyone, im not some goofball, just wanting to dress like an "indian" (wich by the way ,i dont like to use,its misleading)

Are you sure? How do you know what you know? Personally anyone who is non-Indian and wants to "dress like an Indian" is a goofball in my book.

im "white" and my wife is of mexican heritage,im darker than her, in skin tone. but it did and doesnt matter, i live in a community with 95 % latinos, and i had alot of words thrown at me, white boy , or go back to whiteland, but i didnt care, and her brother and her cousins where bad too, but it was poking fun, cause now after a couple of years its good,
so now that you are getting married to someone with another background and race( wich doesnt matter of course), when you have kids , will you tell your son or daughter, that they cant participate cause they are not purely native

That is not our tradition and an entirely different conversation. I have EARNED the right to dance and have gone through the appropriate ceremonies to do so and my children will as well, if they chose to do so. This is OUR Right.
By your rationale, you have the right to dance powwow becuase you are in good with your wive's Mexican brothers? That makes no sense..

, if you want to belong into a group it shouldnt matter what race you are,

But sometimes it does and you just have to live with that

as long as you are willing to go by the traditions and rules that follows
,i only know one native american, he is navajo, he is a wonderful person, and i havent asked him yet about the powwow, will he get short with me and tell me that i will hurt his people by dancing

Well, I don't know; Navajos are not powwow people traditionally, but I'd listen to your friend

im 23 , i will take my years to collect my regalia, and my dancing will i practice on, its not against the law, to own native crafts or to dance,

Actually, yeah it might actually be against the law if you do not know what you are doing and collect the wrong piece; many laws surround holding feathers and other pieces without a permit

i hope we can talk more, i like to hear voices not only saying go ahead just start dancing, you are showing me ,that it will take time and patience to get accepted,
its worth everything,
so again thank you for responding to my thread

I don't mind responding, but you are not listening and its obvious in the words you chose to use that you are intending to dance anyway. Good luck with that; ultimatley you will have to face the Creator to explain your actions.

it means alot

apparently it dosen't

take care , and i hope to hear from you soon again
sincerely Thobias

Later; kick rocks dude.

hobbs49 · 09-18-2007, 04:16 PM

So I guess that's one vote "No" :-)

tsuj510 · 09-18-2007, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hobbs49

09-17-2007, 02:18 AM	#1 (permalink)
Thobias Thobias Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Huntingtonpark Posts: 21	asking for permission, to participate in a powwow Hi! im new to this forum A little about myself first, i am a swede ,i was born in sweden, and ever since i was a child, i have always been interested in native american culture and life, in 2004 i moved to Los Angeles, where my wife is born, we got married in 2006, and we are very happy together,i didnt get my green card until late 2006 not until now have i started to think that i could participate in a powwow,since i finally dont have to go back to sweden like every 3 months, so i have been starting to finding all these websites of information, and now a couple a weeks ago , i found powwows.com as i come to understand in order for me to participate, not being non native american, i must ask for permission, and wish for the best i guess? who do i ask? And im not a wannabee, im very proud to be a swede, and where im from, but i feel that my feelings for the culture of native americans is stronger, i feel more drawn to it, my reasons for taking part of a powwow is not to compete, it is my way to pay the utmost respect and sincere love for the true founders of this land, and to the culture and its people In return i would be extremely honored myself im doing my reasearch on the regalia and i hope to dance the northern traditional and im attending powwows this and next year to see how it is preparations will take about 2 years if not more, but i have to ask for permission ,and would very much appreciate some one who could help me Im thanking anyone taking their time to respond in anyway to my thread , just know your taking your valuable time to write, may it be god or bad, Thank You sincerely Thobias

09-17-2007, 02:56 PM	#3 (permalink)
Eagle Plumes Just Bead it! Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: MId-West Posts: 10,918	I agree with trob. Go and watch, support the people by purchasing their items. IM a native but yet I still add to my outfits. It does take time but its very enjoyable. __________________ Got Bead's?

09-17-2007, 05:22 PM	#4 (permalink)
Barb Dragonfly Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Here !!! Posts: 117	Hello Thobias what do you mean exactly by participate? __________________ ClothDancer02

09-17-2007, 11:01 AM	#2 (permalink)
trob226 Senior Dancer Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Where my hat is Posts: 695	Hi, Thobias, welcome. I think the way to start would be to attend as many powwows as a spectator as you can, support the native vendors by purchasing, talking to people, getting to know and be known, learning all you can before planning to participate in any other way. If you're new, you have a lot of learning to do first. I've been to several powwows over the years, but I still call myself a newbie. I enjoy being a spectator and don't plan to be more than that. There are many ways to show your respect.

09-17-2007, 08:44 PM	#5 (permalink)
tsuj510 Teen Dancer Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Chico, CA Posts: 409	Thobias- I wanted to take a second and respond; my girlfriend and I will be marrying soon-her folks are Swedish (from near Gavle). The Swedish culture is a beautiful thing, man, and something to be proud of. No doubt! I wanted to share a lesson that I have learned recently, regarding life in general, not anything to do with being NDN, but anyway the lesson is, "Just becuase I WANT to do/can do/feel like I should do/something, does not mean I SHOULD"! If you really really want to powwow, go as a spectator. If you really, really want to help Native culture thrive and to last, let US take care of that. I think overall we're doing just fine. I think most folks here who are NDN would agree that some of the worst things that we have been through were a direct result of non-natives intruding where they had no business. Many times they acted without bad thoughts or intentions in their hearts and ended up hurting our folks anyhow. We love to have support from other communities and appreciate the fact that others enjoy aspects of our Cultures, but there is a point where support becomes intrusion and co-opting of Culture and this is not a good thing. Come on out, watch, shoot eat frybread and dance some intertribals.... Support the local vendors and maybe pick up some trash off the ground if you really want to pitch in, but other than that, I think I can safely say we have the rest covered just fine. Again, as I have stated to the regulars, I am just a young man and my opinion does not mean much yet, but there it is. I do not mean to offend, and hope I have not said anything innappropriate. WaDo

09-18-2007, 08:13 AM	#9 (permalink)
hobbs49 Pow Wow Committee Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Triangle Area, NC Posts: 1,106	Just a friendly reminder, the Spectators forum is a moderated forum. Anything posted here is reviewed by myself or Singing Eagle. As such, there is a delay between when you post and when it shows up here. Please understand that Singing Eagle and I try very hard to check and update all posts several times a day normally. Sometimes you get lucky and we're already online and respond quickly, other times, it may take hours. We get paid the same whether we approve the posts quickly or slowly :-)

09-18-2007, 04:16 PM	#11 (permalink)
hobbs49 Pow Wow Committee Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Triangle Area, NC Posts: 1,106	So I guess that's one vote "No" :-)