crazytraddancer

well, songs change, thats the powwow world, but people need to ask permission and sing songs right,ect. I know wat your talking about and I've seen it, duh, I live in Florida, but I've had the priveldge of singing with people who know wat they're doing, so I think they should have some guidance.

suthernwaterbird

Who in florida knows what they're talking about...NOT SAYING THERE ISN'T anyone..but just would like to know specifically who you're referring to.

__________________
WhY yOu AsK? bEcUz We CaN!

crazytraddancer

well, people from out of state of course, like Billy Evans Horse, the Kiowa tribal chairman or something like that. He's from oklahoma, pretty much everyone in Oklahoma knows him, and kinda got powwows started in Florida. When he comes to sing people come outta the woodwork, like one powwow the year before had 8 or 10 people there, the next year, he sang there and there was about 1000 or so.

I was just putting it in that if you are looking for Hokey and wanna see some rules broken, come to some of the morons over here. There are some good ones, and people who know the right way, but there are a lot of morons around. And like you said Ive seen some poor excuses for drums. Now there are a lot of good peple who know what theyre doing, but i can definately feel your pain.

Fasthawk

I have been singing about 15 years. I am slightly distressed about this good drum bad drum thing. I think it more depends on your attitude and actions. There is no such thing as a perfect song, or drum. Songs of our ancestors were not exact. They had inflection for language. How many times have we said we are different?
Sing and take the joy form that. When I hear a drum that I feel is not good or in not acting right, or is not trying to represent the song, I leave.

Fasthawk

I don't disagree I think that all that etiquette should be followed. We Do. But there is a lot more to it than asking permission. When we sing and a drum sets up and doesn't respect the host we get upset. We have found over the years that if we get too upset, all the idiots come out of the woodwork. They think they are entitled to sing because they listened to a CD. Thats on them.

All I can say is judge what you see and hear. If you think you can be constructive and can help DO that. IF not just wait until a drum you can dance/liisten to comes on.

Can you imagine if the OLD Grandfathers heard some of the songs that they sung way back The way WE do them today , how they would react? All the old guys I know help me anytime I ask. Also I sang in OKI, with prominent drums that I won't name drop, and although it was a bit different it wasn't all that different They didn't criticize me and I have been asked back? Don't count us out just because we are from the northeast.

suthernwaterbird

Whats this "we" stuff. If I sing a song..I know where it comes from. Or I don't sing it..And ma Cohn is from Ok, not FL, but I noticed when he comes and sings, the people that sit in, when he's not around try to act CHIEF because they sat next to him. It's ridiculous. I'm sick of Florida cept for a few that are ok, but the rest pshh im good.

__________________
WhY yOu AsK? bEcUz We CaN!

Fasthawk

I say "WE" cause I listen to a lot of stuff with the older guys and when I ask an elder about a song they relate to me the many ways they have sung, and do sing, the song. If they are with different lead singers. I don't mean young either. Are they wrong?

You don't have to be from OK. or FLA, or the REZ, or whatever sing the song I will appreciate that song if you are singing with your heart and your head straight Now I have heard songs BUTCHERED, by many Drums, I have commented, and they think that I am giving them a hard time.

You know the idiots, are we really talking about them here?

For example I know an elder that changed his Family song, because he no longer wanted it in the public. I like both songs. We have permission to use both songs out of respect We don't use the song that was pulled back.

There is also not I in DRUM. so I use "WE".

1 more thing you are very fortunate to know the spirits that created the songs If you know where they come from you must be very old.

WhoMe

Fast,

For some reason, southern drums are getting away from singing old songs. The exception would be at community powwows in Oklahoma. Each year new songs are composed by young singers. With this information, it is hard to tell who composed ALL songs.

There is really no magic or spirits associated with new compositions. Some composer was probably driving down the road, a catchy tune comes to mind and he grabs a recorder. When he gets home, he listens to the song and refines it. Next he teaches it to his buddies and Poof* a song is born!!!

__________________
"Today, recognizing and respecting the origins of powwow aids in our Cultural Survival. If enough people break the rules because they are not satisfied...."We will have no culture."

WhoMe

hobbs49

So I gotta ask, Why? Why do you think singers are moving away from the old songs? Do you think its always been that way, with each generation moving away from the old songs and the "good" songs from that generation become the old songs of a couple of generations down the road?

Just curious to what people think about this.

Thanks!

kiyaanii mom

This is just a question.....

Unless a special song is requested, isn't the choice of song completely at the discression of the person who starts it? Especially intertribals and straight contest songs.

I know some drum guys who are always trying to make new songs. And they have some good "catchy" (for lack of a better word) older songs, but they don't sing them any more. I wish they would.

I think that is why I like Southern singing because there are those songs that you hear at least once at every powwow. And it feels good to hear them.

I hope that's not too far off topic....

WhoMe

Hobbs and Kiyaanii,

There just aren't a whole lot of southern singers over 60 singing on a regular basis anymore. It is this base of singers that were/are the teachers and cultural repositories for song interpretation.

The clear majority of southern singers are younger than 40. It is these singers that are pumping out new songs each new powwow season.

I can equate powwow songs to the popular music. In the 40's big band music was popular. In the 50's rock and roll was born. The 70's disco. 80's rap and so on. Each generation has it's own genre of evolution in any given era. Some of the genre carries over to future generations, but the majority of it is replaced by something new to appeal to younger people.

Well, the same is true with powwow music.

It evolves.

__________________
"Today, recognizing and respecting the origins of powwow aids in our Cultural Survival. If enough people break the rules because they are not satisfied...."We will have no culture."

WhoMe

hobbs49

Yeah, kinda what I figured. And it makes sense. But the difference from (most) popular music is that a lot of the old war dance songs also keep a lot of the stories or history too, or so I've been told. So I would guess that those songs and family songs will stand a better chance to survive the ages; or at least hopefully so.

LSS

WhoMe...

So is it safe to say that many young singers are not composing songs (or not having the inspiration to do so) with words in them?

LSS

__________________
To get a true picture of your purpose in life, you only get the whole picture when you listen with your mind, your ears and your heart. This way The Creator has a direct connection with you and only you...no outside interference.

When you follow the will of IT that created you, understanding that your purpose is not for you...but for IT and all that IT has created, there can be no wrong except failure to be obedient. Only then do we jeopardize the gifts we are given.

Its not the final destination that defines us, rather the journey taken!