For those of you who compose songs...

LSS · 02-25-2007, 09:39 AM

A very good friend and I recently had a conversation about song composition. While I believe that songs "come to me" and others, he looked it as an approach that people are/think they are an authority figure...especially when it comes to word songs.

I respect his position very much and I have wondered how many others have/share the same views of my friend. I understand that word songs have been (for the lack of a better description) categorized for the most part as men's dance songs. Most of these songs talk about war expeditions, journeys throughout life, etc. So, my question(s) to you are:

Are any of those songs you compose word songs?
Do you tend to compose more word songs or more straight songs?
Is it acceptable for you to compose songs? Word songs?
What makes it acceptable for you to compose either straight songs or word songs? Do you have to be a veteran/seasoned singer?

LSS

Charlie TwoShirts · 02-25-2007, 07:06 PM

I have been singing for over 40yrs. I never would compose a song. I was taught there were singers then there were song makers. Just because you sing does not make you a song maker.

This is how I was taught. Others do not go by this. My father was a song maker. I and brothers except for one are not. This I believe made for powerful songs. Not just good songs.

Take it or leave it as you may. Just one old man's opinion.

LSS · 02-25-2007, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlie TwoShirts

I have been singing for over 40yrs. I never would compose a song. I was taught there were singers then there were song makers. Just because you sing does not make you a song maker.

This is how I was taught. Others do not go by this. My father was a song maker. I and brothers except for one are not. This I believe made for powerful songs. Not just good songs.

Take it or leave it as you may. Just one old man's opinion.

Charlie,

I too believe this as well. Those who are "song makers"...does that make them an authority? Because being an authority does not make one a "song composer".

Just a bit of rawhide to chew on.

LSS

suthernwaterbird · 02-26-2007, 10:30 AM

No singer should have any authority over another, other then head singer. Just because you are given the gift of making songs, dosen't mean you can boast about it. You were given a gift, that should make you humble, not an authority.

LSS · 02-26-2007, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suthernwaterbird

No singer should have any authority over another, other then head singer. Just because you are given the gift of making songs, dosen't mean you can boast about it. You were given a gift, that should make you humble, not an authority.

No no my man...I'm not saying people having authority over another individual per say...just in the terms of it being acceptable to compose songs...especially when they come to you. Is it ok for you to sing them (your own song)? Is it ok for others to sing your songs? Does this make a difference on if its a word song or not?

LSS · 02-26-2007, 06:34 PM

Here is my position...

Lets say for instance that someone is given the gift of song composition from the Creator. This person proceeds with his gift and begins composing and molding the songs to fit what is needed by the people. The result is a beautiful product by the individual (as he sees it) that is granted by the Creator.

Now...my question to you is if this individual has the right to gift these songs (that come from the Creator) to other individuals? Does this mean that this individual is/can be considered "an authority" on songs? Or even language if the words come to him?

LSS

Charlie TwoShirts · 02-27-2007, 01:53 AM

Quote:

Charlie,

I too believe this as well. Those who are "song makers"...does that make them an authority? Because being an authority does not make one a "song composer".

Just a bit of rawhide to chew on.

I think you are just playing with words. What I have to say is they have authority BECAUSE they are songmakers. Now your definition of authority may be different than mine. When you say "composer" I have to laugh. It makes it sound like mozart or something.

Quote:

Here is my position...

Lets say for instance that someone is given the gift of song composition from the Creator. This person proceeds with his gift and begins composing and molding the songs to fit what is needed by the people. The result is a beautiful product by the individual (as he sees it) that is granted by the Creator.

Now...my question to you is if this individual has the right to gift these songs (that come from the Creator) to other individuals? Does this mean that this individual is/can be considered "an authority" on songs? Or even language if the words come to him?

I would have to say that this person be very careful what they think is from the creator. I've seen it too many times. A person has a song "gifted" to them and says it is from the creator and it doesn't have some of the elements that it should or they try to fit too much in. Things like that. If that be the case then how could it be from the creator. Not mine to judge just a question. If he gives a song then it would be the right one wouldn't it?

Quote:

This person proceeds with his gift and begins composing and molding the songs to fit what is needed by the people. The result is a beautiful product by the individual (as he sees it) that is granted by the Creator.

Composing and molding? To fit what is needed? If it is from the creator wouldn't he give the song the people needed instead of having to have it molded? It sounds like that individual is on an ego trip. Just my opinon. I would be leery.

nativeproud · 02-27-2007, 09:10 PM

please excuse my ignorance, but what is a straight song?

LSS · 02-28-2007, 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nativeproud

please excuse my ignorance, but what is a straight song?

A song w/o any words in it.

WhoMe · 02-28-2007, 03:48 PM

LSS,

I've composed several songs.

I make a first copy of the song and turn it into our lead singer. He then "straightens" the song to make it flow better so that it will be more singable. Same goes for the rest of our group. If someone makes a song, they turn in the rough copy to the lead singer and he has an ear for improving it.

If I feel my song needs some words, I ask him to add some and tell him what the song will be used for.

Then we take the finished version to drum practice and everyone learns it. Then we take it to a powwow and we sing it.

To answer your question, we don't really address the "authority" question at all, because all this is done internally within our group. The only authority for our group is our lead singer. He speaks on our behalf but not for anyone else.

Sometimes songs just come to me at the oddest times as I am doing something totally unrelated. I sing them over and over until I can get to a recorder and put down the rough copy so I won't forget. Then I decide what I want to use this song for.

It's really not that complicated.

Coyot_In_The_House · 02-28-2007, 04:27 PM

We know you fasted 40 days and 40 nights and captured hundreds of horses and and and and....GAWD! LOL!

See Dorothy had to travel all the way to the land of OZ to realize there is no place like home....The answers we seek are usually right on the tip of our noses....K.I.S.S.

**billyjoejimbob** · 02-28-2007, 04:42 PM

After 15 years of singin I finally came up with a round dance song.

The tune just popped into my head so I am wondering if it is just another one of the hundreds I have heard before. It fit with the words I wrote perfectly tho.

When I first met you,
You shot me down, you broke my heart.
But we got married,
And now you're stuck with me,
Till death do us part.

I have heard a few TILL DEATH DO US PART songs, maybe it is one of them.

Any of you seasoned singers recognize the words?

Coyot_In_The_House · 02-28-2007, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billyjoejimbob

After 15 years of singin I finally came up with a round dance song.

02-25-2007, 09:39 AM	#1 (permalink)
LSS Sappling! Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 871	For those of you who compose songs... A very good friend and I recently had a conversation about song composition. While I believe that songs "come to me" and others, he looked it as an approach that people are/think they are an authority figure...especially when it comes to word songs. I respect his position very much and I have wondered how many others have/share the same views of my friend. I understand that word songs have been (for the lack of a better description) categorized for the most part as men's dance songs. Most of these songs talk about war expeditions, journeys throughout life, etc. So, my question(s) to you are: Are any of those songs you compose word songs? Do you tend to compose more word songs or more straight songs? Is it acceptable for you to compose songs? Word songs? What makes it acceptable for you to compose either straight songs or word songs? Do you have to be a veteran/seasoned singer? LSS __________________ To get a true picture of your purpose in life, you only get the whole picture when you listen with your mind, your ears and your heart. This way The Creator has a direct connection with you and only you...no outside interference. When you follow the will of IT that created you, understanding that your purpose is not for you...but for IT and all that IT has created, there can be no wrong except failure to be obedient. Only then do we jeopardize the gifts we are given. Its not the final destination that defines us, rather the journey taken! Last edited by LSS; 02-26-2007 at 06:09 PM. Reason: clarity

02-26-2007, 10:30 AM	#4 (permalink)
suthernwaterbird nobody Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: atl, ga Posts: 1,004	No singer should have any authority over another, other then head singer. Just because you are given the gift of making songs, dosen't mean you can boast about it. You were given a gift, that should make you humble, not an authority. __________________ WhY yOu AsK? bEcUz We CaN!

02-26-2007, 06:34 PM	#6 (permalink)
LSS Sappling! Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 871	Here is my position... Lets say for instance that someone is given the gift of song composition from the Creator. This person proceeds with his gift and begins composing and molding the songs to fit what is needed by the people. The result is a beautiful product by the individual (as he sees it) that is granted by the Creator. Now...my question to you is if this individual has the right to gift these songs (that come from the Creator) to other individuals? Does this mean that this individual is/can be considered "an authority" on songs? Or even language if the words come to him? LSS __________________ To get a true picture of your purpose in life, you only get the whole picture when you listen with your mind, your ears and your heart. This way The Creator has a direct connection with you and only you...no outside interference. When you follow the will of IT that created you, understanding that your purpose is not for you...but for IT and all that IT has created, there can be no wrong except failure to be obedient. Only then do we jeopardize the gifts we are given. Its not the final destination that defines us, rather the journey taken!

02-28-2007, 03:48 PM	#10 (permalink)
WhoMe PauWau Coordinator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Land of 370 Broken Treaties Posts: 5,560	LSS, I've composed several songs. I make a first copy of the song and turn it into our lead singer. He then "straightens" the song to make it flow better so that it will be more singable. Same goes for the rest of our group. If someone makes a song, they turn in the rough copy to the lead singer and he has an ear for improving it. If I feel my song needs some words, I ask him to add some and tell him what the song will be used for. Then we take the finished version to drum practice and everyone learns it. Then we take it to a powwow and we sing it. To answer your question, we don't really address the "authority" question at all, because all this is done internally within our group. The only authority for our group is our lead singer. He speaks on our behalf but not for anyone else. Sometimes songs just come to me at the oddest times as I am doing something totally unrelated. I sing them over and over until I can get to a recorder and put down the rough copy so I won't forget. Then I decide what I want to use this song for. It's really not that complicated. __________________ "Today, recognizing and respecting the origins of powwow aids in our Cultural Survival. If enough people break the rules because they are not satisfied...."We will have no culture." WhoMe Last edited by WhoMe; 02-28-2007 at 03:55 PM.

02-28-2007, 04:27 PM	#11 (permalink)
Coyot_In_The_House uhvdlv Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 3,967	Come on Who Me.... We know you fasted 40 days and 40 nights and captured hundreds of horses and and and and....GAWD! LOL! See Dorothy had to travel all the way to the land of OZ to realize there is no place like home....The answers we seek are usually right on the tip of our noses....K.I.S.S.

02-25-2007, 07:06 PM	#2 (permalink)
Charlie TwoShirts Tiny Tot Dancer Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 34	I have been singing for over 40yrs. I never would compose a song. I was taught there were singers then there were song makers. Just because you sing does not make you a song maker. This is how I was taught. Others do not go by this. My father was a song maker. I and brothers except for one are not. This I believe made for powerful songs. Not just good songs. Take it or leave it as you may. Just one old man's opinion.

02-27-2007, 09:10 PM	#8 (permalink)
nativeproud Learning Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Oklahoma (wish it were Kansas) Posts: 142	please excuse my ignorance, but what is a straight song?

02-28-2007, 04:42 PM	#12 (permalink)
billyjoejimbob Fat Singer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: white guy land Posts: 1,526	After 15 years of singin I finally came up with a round dance song. The tune just popped into my head so I am wondering if it is just another one of the hundreds I have heard before. It fit with the words I wrote perfectly tho. When I first met you, You shot me down, you broke my heart. But we got married, And now you're stuck with me, Till death do us part. I have heard a few TILL DEATH DO US PART songs, maybe it is one of them. Any of you seasoned singers recognize the words? __________________ There are 2 types of people in the world... Really stupid people who think they are smart and Really smart people who think they are smart.