HoChunk Singing

WhoMe · 12-06-2006, 10:40 AM

Is HoChunk (Winnebago) singing southern or northern?

**ndldy68** · 12-06-2006, 11:07 AM

Well now that depends.
If you are from WI then you are Northern.
If you are from NE then you are Southern.
Just a matter of location!

WhoMe · 12-06-2006, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ndldy68

Well now that depends.
If you are from WI then you are Northern.
If you are from NE then you are Southern.
Just a matter of location!

Ndl,

So should the Wisconsin singers enter northern singing competition and Nebraska singers enter southern singing contests?

Why?

that_1_native · 12-06-2006, 07:42 PM

HoChunk singing is Northern... Even winnebago singing is northern yea... i being Ho-Chunk have heard this issue come up many times before! all elders up here argue the same thing that is all northern...

WhoMe · 12-07-2006, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by that_1_native

HoChunk singing is Northern... Even winnebago singing is northern yea... i being Ho-Chunk have heard this issue come up many times before! all elders up here argue the same thing that is all northern...

that_1,

I was wondering if it was an issue among your tribe.

When they used to have singing competition at Schmitzun, the HoChunk drums competed in the Southern category.

(For those of you reading this and are in the dark, sort of speak, the HoChunk singers sing kinda' like southern singers, but live in the north).

Any comment?

**Kakeeya** · 12-07-2006, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhoMe

(For those of you reading this and are in the dark, sort of speak, the HoChunk singers sing kinda' like southern singers, but live in the north).

Any comment?

That's interesting... one year when I was at TO, I noticed a HoChunk group singing low like Southerns, but thought that they might be like one of our groups in this part of the states, that sing low but are still Northern. Do the HoChunk groups have the Southern downbeats too?

LSS · 12-07-2006, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakeeya

That's interesting... one year when I was at TO, I noticed a HoChunk group singing low like Southerns, but thought that they might be like one of our groups in this part of the states, that sing low but are still Northern. Do the HoChunk groups have the Southern downbeats too?

There is an American Veterans recording that has the songs for the 4 branches of service I heard years ago. There were the southern down beats (as some folk like to call them) and then a three beat ending. When I first heard this, I was like

but after a little research I learned of the singers origin and the origin of the songs.

Just my $0.0198 worth

RedShield · 12-08-2006, 07:34 AM

I've seen and heard both Southern and Northern HoChunk drums, I know the lead singer of Silvercloud is HoChunk and his drum is southern all the way, but also have relatives out in WA that are mixed HoChunk and Spokane that sing northern... I guess you could say it is all about preference and environment, traditionally, I guess maybe you could call them a hybrid of the two?

Just my 49 cents worth!

Paselo~

WhoMe · 12-08-2006, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedShield

I've seen and heard both Southern and Northern HoChunk drums, ... I guess maybe you could call them a hybrid of the two?

RedS,

I wonder if some powwow committees would consider having a Hybrid division in their drum contests?

Niwiwan2005 · 12-08-2006, 10:42 PM

Hey WhoMe;

Because some Hochunk drums have some northern elements to their "brand" of southern singing, maybe they, and possibly others, would be better served in a catagory called:
"Southern Contemporary".

The criteria would consider the classic southern format blended with those northern elements displayed by "southern" drums from the northern regions. What do you think?

RedShield · 12-09-2006, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niwiwan2005

Hey WhoMe;

Because some Hochunk drums have some northern elements to their "brand" of southern singing, maybe they, and possibly others, would be better served in a catagory called:
"Southern Contemporary".

The criteria would consider the classic southern format blended with those northern elements displayed by "southern" drums from the northern regions. What do you think?

I know this has been kicked around before... the establishment of a Traditional Southern versus Contemporary Southern category, but have also gotten into the question of what would define the two categories. To me, if you sing northern construction, compete Northern, if you sing Southern Construction, compete Southern... there are a lot of gray areas, maybe it would be interesting to hear from some judges on here to figure out whether a Northern drum that sings low would be graded down competing in Southern because of construction... to me Southern is a specific style and construction, and Northern is a specific style and construction, I would judge my opinion.

To me... maybe the best fix is to create a third category... an open category, that a Northern drum, or Southern drum, or Hybrid drum could enter, but if they competed open they would have to stick to that category... just an opinion... take it or leave it! I think it would be a better fit for the so-called contemporary drums out there, and some that sing old style northern that can't compete with the high northern style based on preference... just my thoughts on it.

Again, just my 49 cents worth...

Paselo~

LSS · 12-10-2006, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedShield

I know this has been kicked around before... the establishment of a Traditional Southern versus Contemporary Southern category, but have also gotten into the question of what would define the two categories. To me, if you sing northern construction, compete Northern, if you sing Southern Construction, compete Southern... there are a lot of gray areas, maybe it would be interesting to hear from some judges on here to figure out whether a Northern drum that sings low would be graded down competing in Southern because of construction... to me Southern is a specific style and construction, and Northern is a specific style and construction, I would judge my opinion.

To me... maybe the best fix is to create a third category... an open category, that a Northern drum, or Southern drum, or Hybrid drum could enter, but if they competed open they would have to stick to that category... just an opinion... take it or leave it! I think it would be a better fit for the so-called contemporary drums out there, and some that sing old style northern that can't compete with the high northern style based on preference... just my thoughts on it.

Again, just my 49 cents worth...

Paselo~

WAIT! STOP THE PRESS!

RedShield is the newest victim of "Identity Theft"......

the CULPRIT...........

WhoMe!

**Kiwehnzii** · 12-10-2006, 08:43 PM

Whatever you all decide on what style HoChunk singing is................ won't make any difference/impact on anything. HoChunks will continue singing their style and I'll continue dancing to their songs.

continue........ have fun.

Bob B Bob Firechief · 12-11-2006, 09:33 AM

What the hell is hybrid drum?

I've been to the powwows up here and hear the hochunks. Been to Winnebago as well. For the most part I could tell the southern from northern. The ones that made it hard to tell were just bad drums. Can't blame that on a tribe or "style" just bad singers and beat.

And speaking of which-there are some on this board that fit into that catagory!

haha

12-06-2006, 10:40 AM	#1 (permalink)
WhoMe PauWau Coordinator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Land of 370 Broken Treaties Posts: 5,555	HoChunk Singing Is HoChunk (Winnebago) singing southern or northern? __________________ "Today, recognizing and respecting the origins of powwow aids in our Cultural Survival. If enough people break the rules because they are not satisfied...."We will have no culture." WhoMe

12-08-2006, 07:34 AM	#8 (permalink)
RedShield Singer/ Dancer Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Ohio Posts: 15,474	I've seen and heard both Southern and Northern HoChunk drums, I know the lead singer of Silvercloud is HoChunk and his drum is southern all the way, but also have relatives out in WA that are mixed HoChunk and Spokane that sing northern... I guess you could say it is all about preference and environment, traditionally, I guess maybe you could call them a hybrid of the two? Just my 49 cents worth! Paselo~ __________________ I became a singer because I love to sing... and to feed my addiction to cough drops!

12-08-2006, 10:42 PM	#10 (permalink)
Niwiwan2005 Southern Chummie Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 77	The Proper Singing Catagory Hey WhoMe; Because some Hochunk drums have some northern elements to their "brand" of southern singing, maybe they, and possibly others, would be better served in a catagory called: "Southern Contemporary". The criteria would consider the classic southern format blended with those northern elements displayed by "southern" drums from the northern regions. What do you think?

12-11-2006, 09:33 AM	#14 (permalink)
Bob B Bob Firechief Holla! Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Where the sun meets the mountains and the hawk and eagle fly free Posts: 74	What the hell is hybrid drum? I've been to the powwows up here and hear the hochunks. Been to Winnebago as well. For the most part I could tell the southern from northern. The ones that made it hard to tell were just bad drums. Can't blame that on a tribe or "style" just bad singers and beat. And speaking of which-there are some on this board that fit into that catagory! haha __________________ Never go commando in another man's fatigues!!!

12-06-2006, 11:07 AM	#2 (permalink)
ndldy68 my mini me Join Date: May 2005 Location: any where I want... Posts: 5,829	Well now that depends. If you are from WI then you are Northern. If you are from NE then you are Southern. Just a matter of location!

12-06-2006, 07:42 PM	#4 (permalink)
that_1_native Pow Wow Visitor Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 8	HoChunk singing is Northern... Even winnebago singing is northern yea... i being Ho-Chunk have heard this issue come up many times before! all elders up here argue the same thing that is all northern...

12-10-2006, 08:43 PM	#13 (permalink)
Kiwehnzii Oldfart Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 2,868	Whatever you all decide on what style HoChunk singing is................ won't make any difference/impact on anything. HoChunks will continue singing their style and I'll continue dancing to their songs. continue........ have fun.