RedShield

I am just curious how many of you other singers here stick to almost all traditional songs, how many sing mostly all originals, and how many of you try and blend the two...

Just out of curiousity...

Paselo

__________________
I became a singer because I love to sing... and to feed my addiction to cough drops!

LSS

Would you mind defining for others what you mean by "traditional" and "contemporary" songs?

Now, for me to answer your question...it depends on my mood, if we're in contest (and then I start thinking about the judges). So, to answer your question, I mix and match like my straight dance clothes.

While you are answering the above question, I have yet another...I compose a song and because I'm not from Oklahoma or I'm not in an environment condusive to great music like the "Old Timers", but it has a "traditional" flavor...which is it? "Contemporary" or "Traditional"?

__________________
To get a true picture of your purpose in life, you only get the whole picture when you listen with your mind, your ears and your heart. This way The Creator has a direct connection with you and only you...no outside interference.

When you follow the will of IT that created you, understanding that your purpose is not for you...but for IT and all that IT has created, there can be no wrong except failure to be obedient. Only then do we jeopardize the gifts we are given.

Its not the final destination that defines us, rather the journey taken!

RedShield

What I mean by traditional are the old nation songs, one guy I've sat in with here sticks almost exclusively to either Ponca, Pawnee or Kiowa songs... where my drum sings some of the older tunes but mostly sings our own contemporary tunes.

I'd say contemporarily composed songs are just that... contemporary... just my opinion though.

Paselo

__________________
I became a singer because I love to sing... and to feed my addiction to cough drops!

WhoMe

LSS,

If it is recently composed and has a traditional flavor, it is definitely contemporary.

__________________
"Today, recognizing and respecting the origins of powwow aids in our Cultural Survival. If enough people break the rules because they are not satisfied...."We will have no culture."

WhoMe

mnx_str8_up

What about the "traditional" songs being sung these days?? were they considered "contemp." at one time because they were new?? or were they always considered "traditional" songs, even when they were brand new??


It's the age-old question of what is looked at as "traditional".My teacher has songs that he's sang only once, and some he's never even sang yet......and he is a old man.......so are his songs considered traditional, or contemporary??

WhoMe

mnx,

I think you make a good point. Yes, your teacher is an old man. The songs he sings old or brand new certainly come from a time period that can be called "traditional."

In Lss's case, he is fairly young and a fairly new singer. Admittedly he comes from an area where powwows do not have a long standing tradition.

Back atcha'....


If LSS composes a song wth a "traditional flavor"... IS it a traditional song?


Now we come to the question of splitting northern drum groups into traditional and contemporary categories.

If a northern contemporary drum group sings an old tribal song - for their contest song - should they have points deducted?

__________________
"Today, recognizing and respecting the origins of powwow aids in our Cultural Survival. If enough people break the rules because they are not satisfied...."We will have no culture."

WhoMe

mnx_str8_up

who me,

back at cha'??

how do you know the old "traditional" song the group is getting judged on isn't a newer song, made to sound like a traditional song?? are you that knowledgable in every tribes traditional songs to know the difference in every song that's sung??

If so...........my hats off to you because i was always taught that there is hundreds, thousands of songs.......and to know them for each tribe is quite an accomplishment.

WhoMe

*L

Of course I don't know every tribes songs. Who does?

But I have heard a lot of old songs sung live by a lot of old timers who are no longer here. I also have access and listen to archival songs alot. So if I hear one of them I sing along while they're being sung. Except of course, most drums today sing these songs in a much higher pitch of how I originally heard them.


Now back to the questions I asked,

"If LSS composes a song wth a "traditional flavor"... IS it a traditional song?

If a northern contemporary drum group sings an old tribal song - for their contest song - should they have points deducted?"

Whatcha' think?

__________________
"Today, recognizing and respecting the origins of powwow aids in our Cultural Survival. If enough people break the rules because they are not satisfied...."We will have no culture."

WhoMe

mnx_str8_up

So what your saying is we should punish the younger generation for trying to learn and sing the older songs?? I was always taught that if a song is brought out into the powwow arena,it is given to the people to use accordingly(family songs,memorial songs should be taught along with the stories behind them). But as one who sounds like they enjoy native music as much as i do, I believe(this is my personal opinion) that we should encourage the younger singers to learn these songs,and the teachings behind them, in order to preserve them for the next generation.If they feel the need to sing them for contest,hey..... at least they're singing them.I remember hearing stories of the Porcupine singers singing word songs and getting talked down about....but what if they would have stopped?? Do you think some of them songs would still be around?? Or that word songs would have become so popular(Chiniki Lake, Red Nation)?? And what if the younger singers were asked to sing a song like a WWI or a WWII veterans song for golden age, would it be appropriate to sing a veterans song?? So you gonna chastize them for honoring them elders, who may be veterans themselves?? Just my two cents.

LSS

I think what I'm hearing and seeing is that some people feel there should be split categories in singing even amongst the Southerners.

To be perfectly honest with you, and this is strictly my opinion not needing anyone elses support on this, but long long ago, songs were composed that were both word and vocable. People these days consider them "traditional". Now, back to the subject of ones area and its relativity...Right now, where we're at, Southern has become ever so more prominent than just 10 years ago. It is constantly being defined with the different tribal groups and the languages they speak. I go back and listen to songs I composed years ago when I first started singing southern and when I compare them to those today, there is no comparison. I think to myself, "what in the hell is that?" Its not northern, but you can definitly hear the northern influences. If these songs were to be sung, (and I hope they never are sang in public) I would think "WTH is this?" It is too ..."out there"!

So, instead of trying to further separate us, why not agree with the fact that southern ways are trying to take over their rightful area?

mnx_str8_up...I agree with you and the questions you posted. These have been the long standing questions from many a singer!

What about the "traditional" songs being sung these days?? were they considered "contemp." at one time because they were new?? or were they always considered "traditional" songs, even when they were brand new??

__________________
To get a true picture of your purpose in life, you only get the whole picture when you listen with your mind, your ears and your heart. This way The Creator has a direct connection with you and only you...no outside interference.

When you follow the will of IT that created you, understanding that your purpose is not for you...but for IT and all that IT has created, there can be no wrong except failure to be obedient. Only then do we jeopardize the gifts we are given.

Its not the final destination that defines us, rather the journey taken!

WhoMe

\


*L

Please answer the questions:

From what I explained of LSSs' back ground....

"If LSS composes a song wth a "traditional flavor"... IS it a traditional song?

If a northern contemporary drum group sings an old tribal song - for their contest song - should they have points deducted?"


In answer to YOUR question, "younger singers should not be punished for singing older songs. They should be encouraged."


LSS,

In answer to your question about songs that were composed a long time ago. ..

They were referred to as a "new song for an occassion, person, clan or event." Up until the 1980's there was no Contemporary vs. Traditional terminology when referring to powwow songs.

__________________
"Today, recognizing and respecting the origins of powwow aids in our Cultural Survival. If enough people break the rules because they are not satisfied...."We will have no culture."

WhoMe

RedShield

Interesting points so far...

I know most songs recorded today are contemporary songs for the most part, because most drums refrain from recording tribal songs... which in my opinion... is a good thing! Yet there are some traitional songs that do make it on to cd's... they're the ones that have deal with the reprocussions.. not me.

I think it's awesome to hear a traditional drum that relies mostly on their own people's traditional songs, but throws in a few contemporary songs for intertribals, etc. I also have to admit, a lot of drums that sing straight contemporary can flat out jam!

The reason I started this thread was to see how many old-school drums there were out there that still sing mostly their own tribal songs. I know center drum singing is a different ball game from singing with a drum group. On a center drum, yeah you'll sing some contemporary for intertribals, categories, etc. but you better know those family, personal and society songs as well. Would you say that the center drums are the true keepers of our traditional tribal and society songs?

__________________
I became a singer because I love to sing... and to feed my addiction to cough drops!

WhoMe