How many singers do you need for a full crew...

**kiyaanii mom** · 10-27-2005, 02:05 PM

If your drum group was asked to be host drum how many singers would be a good number for a contract?

8, 10, or 12

If someone doesn't show up with a full crew (per the contract - $4000) what would be a fair penalty?

Less $500 per missing singer?
Less $200 per missing singer?

TacO5000 · 10-27-2005, 03:41 PM

I don't know.... 2 or more....! 4000 divided by 2 = 2000.... two will do!

**chazziff** · 10-27-2005, 05:03 PM

most drum group have a minimum of ten singers - but it all depends who you are dealing with.

full crew 4000/10= 400 each.

missing one singer @ - $200 3800=400*9 + 1*300 or 380 each

missing one singer @ - $500 3500=380(est)*9 + 1*0 or 350 each

fyi - no lead singer will sign a contract with a stimpulation of 500 per missing singer - what if there's a death or sickness in a couple of singer's lives and cant show up? the rest of the crew loses $1000 ... a lot of coin expecially if they are all showing up for $400 each not alot of money considering if they they came a long way - next state, next country ...

LSS · 10-27-2005, 09:28 PM

The down side to native people, esp. those who pow wow, are our jobs and our families. Life must go on. And if we can not take care of our homes, our families, or our jobs....what good is anything else?

Now, I'm not saying not to pow wow, but I remember times when we're all counting on a full crew of 8 (or even 5 now) and then someone finds out they can't get off of work like they had planned. Personally, I think some of the biggest keys are not always how many guys you have. I've seen times when a seven man crew....no women....wax the drum arbor with a crew of 15 head. Its all in how you bring it.

Personally, I'd much rather have a crew of 5 or 6 to no more than 8 or 9 that can really sing strong/hard and knows the songs instead of a large crew who sound like a crap. My man Chazziff is right, I would not sign a contract with a stipulation like that. I don't know anyone who would. However, thats not to say that you won't see a committee try to slide it in OR I'm assuming some of the larger dances may do this and that may be the norm.

Just some food for thought. Know what you're getting into before you do it.

hobbs49 · 10-28-2005, 08:51 AM

Well, well!! Looky who's on the Powwow Committee! You getting paid in SC peaches?

southern_xtreme2k5 · 10-28-2005, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LSS

Personally, I think some of the biggest keys are not always how many guys you have. I've seen times when a seven man crew....no women....wax the drum arbor with a crew of 15 head. Its all in how you bring it.

Dang Where did you hear us sing @ kuz we always wax the big crews lol.............But really like you said its how you bring it, you can havea 20man crew and still blow or even just have 5 and do it like no other!!! its all about the singing in the end....contract wise takin a $500 penalty whoa thats harsh i doubt anyone would sign that contract.....well i might so long as whoever cant make it can be replaced at an instant, but even that aint garenteed... i read in another post a about a group that charges by the distance and time that they travel which seems about right. who knows im good even if i barely come out even after a trip .....

WhoMe · 10-28-2005, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiyaanii mom

If your drum group was asked to be host drum how many singers would be a good number for a contract?

8, 10, or 12

If someone doesn't show up with a full crew (per the contract - $4000) what would be a fair penalty?

Less $500 per missing singer?
Less $200 per missing singer?

kiyaani,

The term "full crew" is misleading.

I know some singers who will pick up an entire "crew" locally and setup under "the well known drum group's name."

Inturn, the lead singer gets the lions share of the honorarium and does not have to dish out as much travel money because of the localilty of his "pick-up singers."

Of course this is not true of all drums. . .

But (*smile) I can tell when a drum hosts without it's normal singers.

southern_xtreme2k5 · 10-28-2005, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhoMe

kiyaani,

The term "full crew" is misleading.

I know some singers who will pick up an entire "crew" locally and setup under "the well known drum group's name."

Inturn, the lead singer gets the lions share of the honorarium and does not have to dish out as much travel money because of the localilty of his "pick-up singers."

Of course this is not true of all drums. . .

But (*smile) I can tell when a drum hosts without it's normal singers.

that is so true whome, ive seen it dont more then a few times, either that or a drum will split in 1/2 and attend 2 powwows at the same time under different names and still place, its funny i guess people dont really care if the group is the norm group aslong as its a good name? hmm

**chazziff** · 10-28-2005, 04:39 PM

i have been involved with many so called big name drum group through my spouse who has sang with many of them - the lead singers DO NOT like to split the group up into two groups for the same weekend. for the simple reasons of how ppl may or may not talk about them and the group may not sound "as strong" with a pick up crew.

but sometimes scheduling problems do come up - pw committees do not finalize dates or contracts right away and the group meanwhile has another comm asking them to attend for the same weekend ... so they accept that latter and then the first comm adds them to their poster without "finalizing the deal."

i have seen this happen countless times and have had to travel with one group of the singers and the other goes to the other pw ... so they feel obligated to go the one with their name on the poster so they don't get that "so and so was suppose to be host and they didn't show up" - it's a double edged sword ...

it's not like the groups (well the ones i have knowledge of) go out and look for two pw's to go in one weekend for $$ ...

LSS · 10-28-2005, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhoMe

kiyaani,

The term "full crew" is misleading.

I know some singers who will pick up an entire "crew" locally and setup under "the well known drum group's name."

Inturn, the lead singer gets the lions share of the honorarium and does not have to dish out as much travel money because of the localilty of his "pick-up singers."

Of course this is not true of all drums. . .

But (*smile) I can tell when a drum hosts without it's normal singers.

You know, I wasn't gonna mention that....lol....but oh well! Let the truth be known.

btcsinger · 10-31-2005, 01:57 PM

being a member of the group birdtown crossing the term full crew all depends on the weekend and who all has been to practice and knows the songs. i mean there have been times when four of us would go and take care of a host job and be told we were still the loudest drum there and there has been times when we have went with 12 to 13 strong. but i really don't think a group should be penalized if everyone couldn't make it.

**kiyaanii mom** · 10-31-2005, 03:42 PM

Thank you everyone for your input. (Except Hobbs, I'm not sure who your talking to. LOL)

Anyways.....

Our committee got burned last year by one of our host drums. They only showed with 2 singers and then picked up 3 more. Our committee agreed to $4000 plus rooms for the 3 day powwow. And offered travel money. Everytime we talked to the lead singer, he promised 12 singers. We paid for a top named drum group and the committee felt like we got stiffed. So I guess we have to create a contract. That is why I'm asking all the questions.

To me "full crew" means bringing enough singers from your regular crew to sound good, then if you want you can pick up a few. I know things come up and not eveyone can be everywhere. But 2 singers and all pick-ups is not good enough, in my opinion.

LSS · 10-31-2005, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiyaanii mom

Thank you everyone for your input. (Except Hobbs, I'm not sure who your talking to. LOL)

Anyways.....

Our committee got burned last year by one of our host drums. They only showed with 2 singers and then picked up 3 more. Our committee agreed to $4000 plus rooms for the 3 day powwow. And offered travel money. Everytime we talked to the lead singer, he promised 12 singers. We paid for a top named drum group and the committee felt like we got stiffed. So I guess we have to create a contract. That is why I'm asking all the questions.

To me "full crew" means bringing enough singers from your regular crew to sound good, then if you want you can pick up a few. I know things come up and not eveyone can be everywhere. But 2 singers and all pick-ups is not good enough, in my opinion.

This sounds awfully familiar!

As WhoMe stated, often times, people have "connections" in different areas to help out with the cost of expenses AND as a back up. However, I do think you are right in feeling as if you need something in writing. If not, you won't have everyone on the same page in terms of what you all are expecting. Everyone knows who is suppose to be there, where they're suppose to be, etc.

I ho

10-27-2005, 02:05 PM	#1 (permalink)
kiyaanii mom We'll See.... Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Down the street from Walmart....Yippee! Posts: 3,215	How many singers do you need for a full crew... If your drum group was asked to be host drum how many singers would be a good number for a contract? 8, 10, or 12 If someone doesn't show up with a full crew (per the contract - $4000) what would be a fair penalty? Less $500 per missing singer? Less $200 per missing singer?

10-27-2005, 03:41 PM	#2 (permalink)
TacO5000 shesaysshelikesmy Dougie! Join Date: May 2002 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 624	I don't know.... 2 or more....! 4000 divided by 2 = 2000.... two will do! __________________ Dayum I make some keen DrumSticks!!!!!!

10-27-2005, 05:03 PM	#3 (permalink)
chazziff crossroads? maybe.... Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: can-na-duh Posts: 6,388	most drum group have a minimum of ten singers - but it all depends who you are dealing with. full crew 4000/10= 400 each. missing one singer @ - $200 3800=4009 + 1300 or 380 each missing one singer @ - $500 3500=380(est)9 + 10 or 350 each fyi - no lead singer will sign a contract with a stimpulation of 500 per missing singer - what if there's a death or sickness in a couple of singer's lives and cant show up? the rest of the crew loses $1000 ... a lot of coin expecially if they are all showing up for $400 each not alot of money considering if they they came a long way - next state, next country ... __________________ All you know is when I'm with you I make you free And swim through your veins like a fish in the sea

10-27-2005, 09:28 PM	#4 (permalink)
LSS Sappling! Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 870	The down side to native people, esp. those who pow wow, are our jobs and our families. Life must go on. And if we can not take care of our homes, our families, or our jobs....what good is anything else? Now, I'm not saying not to pow wow, but I remember times when we're all counting on a full crew of 8 (or even 5 now) and then someone finds out they can't get off of work like they had planned. Personally, I think some of the biggest keys are not always how many guys you have. I've seen times when a seven man crew....no women....wax the drum arbor with a crew of 15 head. Its all in how you bring it. Personally, I'd much rather have a crew of 5 or 6 to no more than 8 or 9 that can really sing strong/hard and knows the songs instead of a large crew who sound like a crap. My man Chazziff is right, I would not sign a contract with a stipulation like that. I don't know anyone who would. However, thats not to say that you won't see a committee try to slide it in OR I'm assuming some of the larger dances may do this and that may be the norm. Just some food for thought. Know what you're getting into before you do it. __________________ To get a true picture of your purpose in life, you only get the whole picture when you listen with your mind, your ears and your heart. This way The Creator has a direct connection with you and only you...no outside interference. When you follow the will of IT that created you, understanding that your purpose is not for you...but for IT and all that IT has created, there can be no wrong except failure to be obedient. Only then do we jeopardize the gifts we are given. Its not the final destination that defines us, rather the journey taken!

10-28-2005, 04:39 PM	#9 (permalink)
chazziff crossroads? maybe.... Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: can-na-duh Posts: 6,388	i have been involved with many so called big name drum group through my spouse who has sang with many of them - the lead singers DO NOT like to split the group up into two groups for the same weekend. for the simple reasons of how ppl may or may not talk about them and the group may not sound "as strong" with a pick up crew. but sometimes scheduling problems do come up - pw committees do not finalize dates or contracts right away and the group meanwhile has another comm asking them to attend for the same weekend ... so they accept that latter and then the first comm adds them to their poster without "finalizing the deal." i have seen this happen countless times and have had to travel with one group of the singers and the other goes to the other pw ... so they feel obligated to go the one with their name on the poster so they don't get that "so and so was suppose to be host and they didn't show up" - it's a double edged sword ... it's not like the groups (well the ones i have knowledge of) go out and look for two pw's to go in one weekend for $$ ... __________________ All you know is when I'm with you I make you free And swim through your veins like a fish in the sea

10-28-2005, 08:51 AM	#5 (permalink)
hobbs49 Holy Indian Taco Batman! Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Triangle Area, NC Posts: 1,172	Well, well!! Looky who's on the Powwow Committee! You getting paid in SC peaches?

10-31-2005, 01:57 PM	#11 (permalink)
btcsinger singer Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Qualla bonduary Posts: 84	"full" crew being a member of the group birdtown crossing the term full crew all depends on the weekend and who all has been to practice and knows the songs. i mean there have been times when four of us would go and take care of a host job and be told we were still the loudest drum there and there has been times when we have went with 12 to 13 strong. but i really don't think a group should be penalized if everyone couldn't make it.

10-31-2005, 03:42 PM	#12 (permalink)
kiyaanii mom We'll See.... Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Down the street from Walmart....Yippee! Posts: 3,215	Thank you everyone for your input. (Except Hobbs, I'm not sure who your talking to. LOL) Anyways..... Our committee got burned last year by one of our host drums. They only showed with 2 singers and then picked up 3 more. Our committee agreed to $4000 plus rooms for the 3 day powwow. And offered travel money. Everytime we talked to the lead singer, he promised 12 singers. We paid for a top named drum group and the committee felt like we got stiffed. So I guess we have to create a contract. That is why I'm asking all the questions. To me "full crew" means bringing enough singers from your regular crew to sound good, then if you want you can pick up a few. I know things come up and not eveyone can be everywhere. But 2 singers and all pick-ups is not good enough, in my opinion.