Children at the Drum

WhoMe · 07-01-2004, 02:44 PM

Some tribes and individual head singers have strict rules concerning who is allowed to sit at their drums. . . and some don't.

At some drums, only adult males are allowed to sit in the inner circle with a drum stick. At others there are young boys seated. At others, children sit on the laps of adult singers.

Should a little girl be allowed to sit on her fathers lap while he is singing?

Could a young boy have his own seat if he does not even know how to beat the drum correctly?

What are the rules in your area or drum concerning young people at the drum?

Winona · 07-01-2004, 02:53 PM

I cannot answer for the drums on what the requirements are.

I can say how my heart swells with pride, to see a little one (boy or girl)toddler age, trying to drag a chair up to try and reach the drum to participate!!

how else will they learn!! :Wave

LSS · 07-02-2004, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhoMe

Should a little girl be allowed to sit on her fathers lap while he is singing?

Could a young boy have his own seat if he does not even know how to beat the drum correctly?

What are the rules in your area or drum concerning young people at the drum?

You know, I've often wondered this myself. Hell, I thought to post it one time, and when I got the screen up, I forgot that damn quick....lol

I am all about teaching and sharing with children, but I think there is a point in time when he will have the patients, understanding and discipline to sit there at the drum...not to mention the strength to handle/endure drumming. So, to have his own seat, I think it depends on the child as each individual matures at different rates.

Does this mean a child (male) should not be brought around the drum? Hell No! They've gotta get that experience in. Have them around the drum. Have them in someones lap. Let them tap their hand/foot. Let them sing until that time comes. If their father is there at the drum, I think he should know his child enough to say, "He's ready" and not be pressured by a woman "Let him sing". Also, I think it should be up to the discretion of the Head Singer. Personally, I allow/bestow trust in all my guys as far as decision making within the confinements of the "protocal".

As far as little girls sitting in the laps....define little girl! LOL!
Hell, I refer to my wife as "Lil' Girl" sometimes, but she ain't in my lap at the drum! (Sorry, I had to make a funny. I think some of you know what I'm getting at!)

I personally think this depends on the drum/situation. I know plenty of people would love for their children to grow up around the circuit and sining is a relatively cheap way of doing so (no regalia). I think, if there is no women back-up, then sure...go ahead. I think, if there is women back-up, let one of them hold the child. If the child is that darn particular, appease the child while she knows no better to keep things under wraps. But, rest assured, when she gets older, back there girlie!

LSS

LSS · 07-02-2004, 12:14 PM

BTW,

Lemme just go on the record and say that there is always a way around this possibility of girls at the drum. When they're young, little, there will be some situations that I'll be tolerable of. But, when things are becoming abused, I'll set my foot down.

Sewickly · 07-02-2004, 01:05 PM

Hey LSS! Where do I go from here? Children at the Drum! From my standpoint, that is up to the Lead Singer! There is a time and a place for everything under the sun. Our drum ranges from 5 - 60 on a good day. Anyway, I think that it is a good thing to have youth around the Drum. Now let's go a little further, when it is a song that the Drum is singing and a child is beating, I feel they need to beat on the side of the Drum, because one off beat will drive the best person crazy.

Little girls, babies, that can hold themselves up, that is also up to the Lead Singer. My daughter was held on the lap of a Drummer when she was younger and she grew about an inch sitting there too. She was younger though. It all depends to me on the Drum and what they believe in. Respect is something that is learned. You have to be around it in some sort of fashion in order to Respect it.

Now if the child, boy or girl, and they are around the Drum or Circle acting up, beat they tail and send them to their mama! You know I do not mind! And tell them I did it! I don't mind really! Like I said there is a time and a place for everything!

lady warrior · 07-02-2004, 01:44 PM

it is so important for our young ones to sit at the drum to receive that blessing. it's important that babies get to be up close to that hearbeat- male or female.
but of course, it's ultimately up to the community and the lead singer.

**Azhe'ni** · 07-02-2004, 01:46 PM

I agree with what LSS said bout the understanding and disipline. My son sits on the drum with the guys. He's been sitting on his dads lap since he was born until he wasn't even a year old yet, and now that he is almost two, he has his own lil hand drum and his dad has fam drum for the son and him. And my son pulls up a chair at home and sings his lil heart out. So when we go to tradish powwows he climbs up in a regular chair and sits and sings with the guys. Since he drums everyday he can almost keep up with them. Ahh, he sees the older ones grab their throat and he tries to but instead he ends up grabbing his chin. Anywayz- I guess everyone is different.

Mato Winyan · 07-02-2004, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Potawatomi_Azhe'ni

Since he drums everyday he can almost keep up with them. Ahh, he sees the older ones grab their throat and he tries to but instead he ends up grabbing his chin.

Awwwwwww..... too cute!!! Lil' chin grabber!!

LSS · 07-02-2004, 03:21 PM

I just wanna clarify (although no one has misinterpreted my post) that I for one feel that children need to be raised in and or around the circle. Its just how it is done makes all the difference.

WhoMe · 07-09-2004, 06:00 PM

The point that "children should be raised in the circle, how else will they learn?" is valid.

However, I have heard many older singers say, "you already should know how to sing before you come to the drum." In Oklahoma, younger singers have the luxury of learning to sing at a 49. Many of the most popular southern singers today, have honed their skills at these after-hour activities.

This is not the norm outside of Oklahoma, unfortunately, and singers have to resort to learning by tape and coming to the "big drum" with limited skills to learn to sing.

Major annual celebrations among the Ponca, Osage, Otoe and Kiowa rarely have children allowed "at the big drum."

LSS · 07-10-2004, 03:20 AM

Quote:

However, I have heard many older singers say, "you already should know how to sing before you come to the drum." In Oklahoma, younger singers have the luxury of learning to sing at a 49. Many of the most popular southern singers today, have honed their skills at these after-hour activities.

I see the point to your post now...and I still have to agree with things that have been said. From a personal perspective, I usually don't mind young ones practicing with me. However, their time is/would be limited. At a dance, they MAY get to sit in on ONE song, but not much more than that. This is because very few dances out here are "ceremonial". And very few dances are "southern style". Very few 49 sessions too! However, if that little rascal is blowing the roof of the house and keep a beat better than my own singers,...need I say more?

So, in the land of OZ...I personally would prefer for them to get the training at practices as well, just like the rest of us. That is a perfect time to learn the "in's and out's" of songs, history, signals, and much much more. Here, mistakes are more often accepted and overlooked. Such mishaps will not detramental to their "health".....

**WocusWoman** · 07-10-2004, 05:16 AM

LSS you make good common sense.

LSS · 07-10-2004, 07:42 AM

LOL...thats all I tend to be sometimes....

Thanks

LSS · 07-10-2004, 07:45 AM

Quote:

07-01-2004, 02:44 PM	#1 (permalink)
WhoMe PauWau Coordinator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Land of 370 Broken Treaties Posts: 5,555	Children at the Drum Some tribes and individual head singers have strict rules concerning who is allowed to sit at their drums. . . and some don't. At some drums, only adult males are allowed to sit in the inner circle with a drum stick. At others there are young boys seated. At others, children sit on the laps of adult singers. Should a little girl be allowed to sit on her fathers lap while he is singing? Could a young boy have his own seat if he does not even know how to beat the drum correctly? What are the rules in your area or drum concerning young people at the drum? __________________ "Today, recognizing and respecting the origins of powwow aids in our Cultural Survival. If enough people break the rules because they are not satisfied...."We will have no culture." WhoMe

07-01-2004, 02:53 PM	#2 (permalink)
Winona Tiny Tot Dancer Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 46	I cannot answer for the drums on what the requirements are. I can say how my heart swells with pride, to see a little one (boy or girl)toddler age, trying to drag a chair up to try and reach the drum to participate!! how else will they learn!! :Wave Last edited by Winona; 07-02-2004 at 12:24 PM.

07-02-2004, 12:14 PM	#4 (permalink)
LSS Sappling! Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 870	BTW, Lemme just go on the record and say that there is always a way around this possibility of girls at the drum. When they're young, little, there will be some situations that I'll be tolerable of. But, when things are becoming abused, I'll set my foot down. __________________ To get a true picture of your purpose in life, you only get the whole picture when you listen with your mind, your ears and your heart. This way The Creator has a direct connection with you and only you...no outside interference. When you follow the will of IT that created you, understanding that your purpose is not for you...but for IT and all that IT has created, there can be no wrong except failure to be obedient. Only then do we jeopardize the gifts we are given. Its not the final destination that defines us, rather the journey taken!

07-02-2004, 01:05 PM	#5 (permalink)
Sewickly Teen Dancer Join Date: May 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 284	Hey LSS! Where do I go from here? Children at the Drum! From my standpoint, that is up to the Lead Singer! There is a time and a place for everything under the sun. Our drum ranges from 5 - 60 on a good day. Anyway, I think that it is a good thing to have youth around the Drum. Now let's go a little further, when it is a song that the Drum is singing and a child is beating, I feel they need to beat on the side of the Drum, because one off beat will drive the best person crazy. Little girls, babies, that can hold themselves up, that is also up to the Lead Singer. My daughter was held on the lap of a Drummer when she was younger and she grew about an inch sitting there too. She was younger though. It all depends to me on the Drum and what they believe in. Respect is something that is learned. You have to be around it in some sort of fashion in order to Respect it. Now if the child, boy or girl, and they are around the Drum or Circle acting up, beat they tail and send them to their mama! You know I do not mind! And tell them I did it! I don't mind really! Like I said there is a time and a place for everything! __________________ Just Be Real, and live for who you are!

07-02-2004, 01:44 PM	#6 (permalink)
lady warrior Pow Wow Visitor Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: oakland, CA Posts: 15	children at the drum it is so important for our young ones to sit at the drum to receive that blessing. it's important that babies get to be up close to that hearbeat- male or female. but of course, it's ultimately up to the community and the lead singer.

07-02-2004, 01:46 PM	#7 (permalink)
Azhe'ni Shuut uup..are ya serious Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 1,338	I agree with what LSS said bout the understanding and disipline. My son sits on the drum with the guys. He's been sitting on his dads lap since he was born until he wasn't even a year old yet, and now that he is almost two, he has his own lil hand drum and his dad has fam drum for the son and him. And my son pulls up a chair at home and sings his lil heart out. So when we go to tradish powwows he climbs up in a regular chair and sits and sings with the guys. Since he drums everyday he can almost keep up with them. Ahh, he sees the older ones grab their throat and he tries to but instead he ends up grabbing his chin. Anywayz- I guess everyone is different.

07-02-2004, 03:21 PM	#9 (permalink)
LSS Sappling! Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 870	I just wanna clarify (although no one has misinterpreted my post) that I for one feel that children need to be raised in and or around the circle. Its just how it is done makes all the difference. __________________ To get a true picture of your purpose in life, you only get the whole picture when you listen with your mind, your ears and your heart. This way The Creator has a direct connection with you and only you...no outside interference. When you follow the will of IT that created you, understanding that your purpose is not for you...but for IT and all that IT has created, there can be no wrong except failure to be obedient. Only then do we jeopardize the gifts we are given. Its not the final destination that defines us, rather the journey taken!

07-09-2004, 06:00 PM	#10 (permalink)
WhoMe PauWau Coordinator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Land of 370 Broken Treaties Posts: 5,555	The point that "children should be raised in the circle, how else will they learn?" is valid. However, I have heard many older singers say, "you already should know how to sing before you come to the drum." In Oklahoma, younger singers have the luxury of learning to sing at a 49. Many of the most popular southern singers today, have honed their skills at these after-hour activities. This is not the norm outside of Oklahoma, unfortunately, and singers have to resort to learning by tape and coming to the "big drum" with limited skills to learn to sing. Major annual celebrations among the Ponca, Osage, Otoe and Kiowa rarely have children allowed "at the big drum." __________________ "Today, recognizing and respecting the origins of powwow aids in our Cultural Survival. If enough people break the rules because they are not satisfied...."We will have no culture." WhoMe

07-10-2004, 05:16 AM	#12 (permalink)
WocusWoman N8tiffUmatillaMAMA Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Interior Alaska Posts: 2,727	LSS you make good common sense.

07-10-2004, 07:42 AM	#13 (permalink)
LSS Sappling! Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 870	LOL...thats all I tend to be sometimes.... Thanks __________________ To get a true picture of your purpose in life, you only get the whole picture when you listen with your mind, your ears and your heart. This way The Creator has a direct connection with you and only you...no outside interference. When you follow the will of IT that created you, understanding that your purpose is not for you...but for IT and all that IT has created, there can be no wrong except failure to be obedient. Only then do we jeopardize the gifts we are given. Its not the final destination that defines us, rather the journey taken!