WhoMe

Drum ettiquete is different according to northern and southern arenas, regions, tribes and how individuals are taught (or not taught).

I have heard many people state that drums are not supposed to touch the ground or be left unattended. But I have seen at most summer dances drums left leaning on the ground and a post or chair "warming up."

What are your tribes or regions beliefs on drums actually touching the ground?

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"Today, recognizing and respecting the origins of powwow aids in our Cultural Survival. If enough people break the rules because they are not satisfied...."We will have no culture."

WhoMe

The_HULK

Is there ever going to be anything you won't ask on here?


:mocking: :D


I think I'll start the next one;

How Exactly Do You Run Ceremonies In Your Region?

:czyeyes: :Angel:

__________________


*There are 2 sides to every coin!

*A man can be as great as he wants to be. If you believe in yourself and have the courage, the determination, the dedication, the competitive drive and if you are willing to sacrifice the little things in life and pay the price for the things that are worthwhile, it can be done. - Vince Lombardi

*Individual commitment to a group effort - that is what makes a team work, a company work, a society work, a civilization work. - Vince Lombardi

WhoMe

[quote=The_HULK]Is there ever going to be anything you won't ask on here?
QUOTE]
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Hulkster:

Jealous? *L

Don't be.

I just see a lot of new situations on the powwow trail and bring them to the attention of the readership of pws.com. Anything wrong with this motive?

Powwows are a place where many different tribes with strong beliefs come together. Many times strong powwow beliefs collide in the powwow arena. This is particularly true with southern and northern powwow beliefs.

I have heard arguements in the arena as to how a drum is to be positioned when it is not being used, during an intertribal powwow.

Northern singers take the drum off its stand and place it on its side until it is time to sing. This drum is often put away during a supper break.

Whereas,

Southern singers keep the drum on it's stand ready to go at all times even leaving it in the center of the arena during supper break.

These are two examples of beliefs that collide.
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I have often heard different tribes say the drum should not touch the ground at all. I am wanting to know tribal specific tribal beliefs for a reason.
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I post because I am wanting to learn another point of view other than my own.
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Why do you post?

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"Today, recognizing and respecting the origins of powwow aids in our Cultural Survival. If enough people break the rules because they are not satisfied...."We will have no culture."

WhoMe

TacO5000

One time I was at weds night practice, I had took my drum. anyway there was this other guy who had arived before me and brought his drum. I left my drum about 10 feet from were I was at. anyways the guy who sings with a northern group snatches up my drum and tries to take it. pissed me off I walk over to were my drum was and got it. He told me that I was never to leave my drum unattened. My Belives are not the same as other tribes. I don't think it is anything big because at Oklahoma powwows you always see drums heatin up in the sun and there is no one around it. Next time it happens someone might get a black eye.

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Dayum I make some keen DrumSticks!!!!!!

Tom Iron Eagle

Excellent Point.

I have seen Northern Drums preach and yell and give other Drums a hard time about leaving the Drum alone.

Recently I saw a Northen Drum yell at another Drum for simply covering the Drum and then walking away. But then get this -that Same Northen Drum has their Drum in the Sun lying on its side against a Chair and absolutely nobody is around. Talk about hypocrisy!

As this thread was introduced - all have different ways and beliefs. We may not agree and we may even get upset but things are different all across the Native American Culture.

The_HULK

:D Thats funny, I never heard that since grade school. :D

Well, like someone said before, "Whome" you do make pws.com interesting.... 90% of the time. The other 10% is just plain intruding, in my point of view anyway.

I don't see anything wrong with, and I'll never tell anyone to change their "motives". And, I might add, that I would never purposely try to impose my will/opinion on anyone. That is not the way I was taught.

With that said, I recently was involved in a discussion where the issue of educating "non-natives" about the traditional ways of our people was the topic. Without getting too deep into it, I would just like to say that I don't agree with people who post on here about teachings that would normally be handed down through ceremony, or with an offering of some sort.

To answer your question, I post on here because I enjoy to discuss, and read about who the favorite drum/singers/dancers/etc. are. I also like to learn of a point of view other than my own, but I don't care to share my teachings that I hold sacred.

Again, this is just my point of view, love it or leave it, don't matter to me one way or the other.

(maybe I took the issue a little lightly before by laughing and being sarcastic, for that I'd like to say.... Oh well, this is a forum where people speak their minds more often than not, and I've seen it done plenty of times. So, maybe you should be more concerned about toughening up your skin a little bit. Just a suggestion.)

__________________


*There are 2 sides to every coin!

*A man can be as great as he wants to be. If you believe in yourself and have the courage, the determination, the dedication, the competitive drive and if you are willing to sacrifice the little things in life and pay the price for the things that are worthwhile, it can be done. - Vince Lombardi

*Individual commitment to a group effort - that is what makes a team work, a company work, a society work, a civilization work. - Vince Lombardi

WhoMe

Hulkster:

Attention (good or bad) is the best form of flattery! I have never had anyone go out of their way to antiquate my posts in percentages before. Congratulations on being the first! I'm not sure where you're going with your posts, but I don't think I will be "toughening up my skin" anytime in the near future. No real need to. I will just continue to on as usual . . .

ndntaco and TIEagle:

What you have shared are exactly the situations that I have experienced in the past. Even though we have modern "intertribal powwows," there are still dance arenas considered "northern and southern" protocol. What you have said confirms this.

__________________
"Today, recognizing and respecting the origins of powwow aids in our Cultural Survival. If enough people break the rules because they are not satisfied...."We will have no culture."

WhoMe

The_HULK

Thats alright. I'm sure it's easier that way.


:Wave
:creeper:

__________________


*There are 2 sides to every coin!

*A man can be as great as he wants to be. If you believe in yourself and have the courage, the determination, the dedication, the competitive drive and if you are willing to sacrifice the little things in life and pay the price for the things that are worthwhile, it can be done. - Vince Lombardi

*Individual commitment to a group effort - that is what makes a team work, a company work, a society work, a civilization work. - Vince Lombardi

storm

This is much like eagle feather ettiquete (sp).
When i was young in the early 60's, the drum was treated with greater respect than now...more ''real' reverence, not just show. Most elders I know considered the earth sacred..holy, as we still do in the NAC and many ceremonial dances. We place our medicine and feathers on the earth with reverence; not indifference. All this "do not touch the ground" stuff, (I think) is white influence. My uncle and dad told me after WWII so many boys came home after serving that they began to treat drums and feathers like the american flag and began to use the same protocols that had been drilled into them. Also many natives who knew little about there own ways and then came into the circle adopted these flag protocols. Things change, so like every other topic on this site you have a mix of old ways and new ways. so who is 'right?"
Heck, I don't know. When I am in charge, I have to go with they way those old men taught me, otherwise (gritting my teeth) I have to go along.....
More than anything, my elders taught me 'MANNERS'
In my own tribes, at our dances, I can fight with my own folks over how to do things; but outside that, i am just a visitor.

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My bark is worse than my bite

LSS

Being a southern singer, my mentors always preached to have the drum hanging/suspended in the air...so, its not suppose to touch the ground. Why? Don't remember much from that day...I took in so much I was overwhelmed.

This was preached to me by my mentors. They're Kiowa, Pawnee, and Cherokee. They know many of the old songs and I trust them. As a matter of fact, I'm gettin' up w/ them again this weekend, I'll ask again to refresh my memory.

But, to answer your question WhoMe....I think the biggest difference is gonna be of Northern influence versus Southern influence. I've never really seen southern singers push the issue of leaving the drum unattended. Most of the time, at my drum, we'll cover the drum w/ a blanket and generally push the chairs up to the drum or turn the chairs around and push them up to the drum. However, when I use to sing northern way back when...we'd turn the drum up on its side, blanket it, and push the chairs in.

A similar story I've heard of happend to some of my friends last year I think when someone tried to snatch their drum. These guys are southern singers. Although, I'm not sure who the accomplace (sp?) was...but if its who I'm thinking it may have been, the clash was northern/southern.

Also, I think you may find clashes when you find people that either show up to a dance intoxicated, if they're just hard up for something in particular, or got BEEF with that person, group, or themselves.

Just my 2 cents worth.

LSS

__________________
To get a true picture of your purpose in life, you only get the whole picture when you listen with your mind, your ears and your heart. This way The Creator has a direct connection with you and only you...no outside interference.

When you follow the will of IT that created you, understanding that your purpose is not for you...but for IT and all that IT has created, there can be no wrong except failure to be obedient. Only then do we jeopardize the gifts we are given.

Its not the final destination that defines us, rather the journey taken!

billyjoejimbob

Dont mess with someone elses drum is what i say. Everyone has different beliefs. If you think they are disrespecting than let them, its their problem.

my drum is never in direct contact with the ground, usually a blanket at least or a quilt. it is thinner so if i dont have the stand i need to put it on something. I have used a suitcase and a spare tire.

What do they do when they arent at a powwow? carry the drum to work?

makesHERlulu

Ain't nuttin wrong wit putting a drum on the ground from where I come from here in Oklahoma. Besides whenever it is on its side it is connected to the arena. This arena and mother earth as we know it is sacred enough for our folks. Whenever there is a break in the pow-wow or whatever then the drum can be set on its side and still within the racks. This indicates to most (maybe) not all that the singers at that particular drum are away and the drum should not be bothered because of the respect. But in most cases someone is still near the drum at all times.


Damn I her that lulu in the back ground for giving my two cents.....

eeecha

WhoMe

drum history 101 (with a question):

Southern Plain's Indians prior to the late 1800's beat on rolled raw hides that were stretched by the singers and beat with long, unpadded stick. The singers sat on the ground and often times so did the hide.

In the late 1800's a band leader called Jim Phillip Sosa gave a band drum (and set of cymbals) to the Ponca people. They then made a drum out of the frame - drum as we know it today.

In 1873 the drum was given to the Gray Horse district of the Osage by the Ponca. About that same time, the Kaw (Kansa) gave the Pawhuska district their drum.

Does anyone know if these original drums had stands?

__________________
"Today, recognizing and respecting the origins of powwow aids in our Cultural Survival. If enough people break the rules because they are not satisfied...."We will have no culture."

WhoMe