Flag Song - Page 2

peekaboo · 07-24-2003, 09:25 PM

I HEAR THE BOYS SCOUTS OF AMERICA ARE ALWAYS LOOKING FOR A FEW NEW BOYS. WONT YOU TRY THERE FIRST.

THEY WILL EVEN SHOW YOU HOW TO BUILD A TEPEE, BOW AND ARROW SET, AND EVEN MAKE YOUR VERY OWN TOM-TOM.

AND FOR AN ADDED BONUS THEY JUST MIGHT HAVE B-BALL ON CERTAIN NIGHTS IN BETWEEN ALL THE 'BECOMING A TRUE AUTHENTIC INDIAN' CLASSES.

Jammer · 07-24-2003, 10:12 PM

LOL peekaboo. Hoopster evern though you want to do the culture well and respectful, I think you need to listen to what some of these people on here are trying to tell you. Most of them have been around the drum or singing for many, many years and know very well how things are ran and what would happen in certain situations. You want to do our culture right then respect it, and do so from having to participate. You wanna be a dancer or a back up on a drum then fine more power to you, but wanting to be head of a mixed drum and lead thats way out of your territory. Things are ran certain ways for a reason and have been done so for a long time, and then we get people like you wanting to come in and change everything, or do your own thing and be respected for it, ERM! WRONG, thats not gonna happen. People are gonna disrespect you more so if you try to make it happen. I guess you could try to do your own thing and see how far you get, but I doubt your get anywhere.

**Emmy** · 07-25-2003, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Singerdad
If they respect the culture so, why try to change it?

:clap::clapping:

**billyjoejimbob** · 07-25-2003, 12:08 PM

No offense singerdad (much respect to you and your drum) but why must every non-ndn singing group have to "try to do it in oklahoma"? There are 'NDN' groups out there that shouldnt "try it in okla" and no one says anything about it. Some champion drums out there lost all touch with reality and customs and are only in it for the money and fame (no names needed)

Which is worse? An NDN 'selling out' customs or a white girl "learning customs" ? Its a hard choice. But I can tell you who is in it for the love of it and who isn't.

**Emmy** · 07-25-2003, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by billyjoejimbob
No offense singerdad (much respect to you and your drum) but why must every non-ndn singing group have to "try to do it in oklahoma"? There are 'NDN' groups out there that shouldnt "try it in okla" and no one says anything about it. Some champion drums out there lost all touch with reality and customs and are only in it for the money and fame (no names needed)

Which is worse? An NDN 'selling out' customs or a white girl "learning customs" ? Its a hard choice. But I can tell you who is in it for the love of it and who isn't.

but u r failing to recognize is that she isnt learning the customs...cuz girls dont sit at a drum they sing backup...

she is using and manipulating them to her own accord.

WhoMe · 07-25-2003, 04:45 PM

Hoopster:

You really don't need to go to Oklahoma to get advice, set up your drum OR get bawled out.

You have a southern drum right there in NYC.

Ever heard of the Silver Cloud Singers?

I think the lead singer Kevin Terrant can answer some questions without you having to leave your back yard.

"Why Hoop n Holler?":bouncy:

**billyjoejimbob** · 07-25-2003, 06:15 PM

Well Im assuming she doesnt beat the drum. I think they know better. Im also assuming head singer means she wants the get the group started and took up the reigns.

Silvercloud IS a good drum. I remember back when they sang Northern AND Sothern songs. THey have come a long way.

WhoMe · 07-25-2003, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hoopster girl
Thanx, Would this also be true, even if I wasn't leading the drum, but Singing and drumming with them?

Hoopster

]

In southern singing, women do not drum.

plain-n-simple

hoopster girl · 07-25-2003, 10:40 PM

I'll give you all the information so I can get bashed accordingly.

I do beat the drum. I started becoming interested while playing with a northern group. I guess they are a little more open minded. ..not say you guys aren't. ..you guys are just more traditional.

We just got a fourth singer for our drum. Count all of them. ..4. .If I sang backup, the octave higher. The 2 guys wouldn't be able to hold it. .not to mention I wouldn't be able to hold it. ..we'd wind up with the same part anyway.

Our group was advised, to pick songs in our range. ..no reason to hurt our vocal chords trying to sing with those northern guys. And as much as I like northern, you can't beat those Southern Fancy Trick Songs.

I became head singer, because I could put the effort in, that it deserved.

I thank you, billyjoejimbob, for your support. And I only have one last comment

As for this tipi building class .. .where can I sign up for it?? Woulda saved a lot of money than buying them from nomadics (the same people who did them for Dances With Wolves)

Hoopster

powwowbum49 · 07-26-2003, 03:25 AM

Hoopster you certainly seem to want to be bashed...are you into S&M or what?

With all jokes aside...obviously your advisors have absolutely no clue what in the sam hell they are talking about, and little to no knowledge of even basic native culture if they are allowing you and other girls to swing a stick at a southern drum. First off, you as a 'BACK-UP' singer do not have to sing an octave higher than the guys do. You just need to know when to come in on a song and have your voice blend well with that of the other singers. Second, with as few people as you have on your drum group you should be trying to listen and learn songs not trying to sing them publicly. You should be seeking the assistance of a skilled and knowledgeable singer in your neck of the woods and not 'making it up as you go'. Finally, I am a head singer of a southern drum in my area and also sing with more notable groups from other parts of the country. I have sang southern for over 20 years and I will tell you straight up...you show up at a dance I am at and try and swing a stick I will be protesting to the committee for them to force you to stop...and if they do not I will leave and not return to that dance again.

I am sure you are good kid, but you have no idea what you are doing or the damage you might cause by doing it. Even bad things that are done unintentionally have a way of coming around and biting one in the butt. I do not care how few kids your group has singing your girls should back out of the front row where the boys are. If you don't want to take my word for it, then try reading the other posts that you seem to have ignored. I know several of these people personally and they are well respected people in Southern (i.e., OK) NDN culture. No one here is jerking your chain on this one.

As for Billybob-hillbilly, having read your posts on here before I cannot believe you are defending the actions of the kids and leaders in this group that are allowing gals to pick up a stick and swing it with the men at a southern drum.

TallmanFL · 07-28-2003, 01:21 PM

Hoopster. LISTEN to what people are saying to you.

Powwowbum is a good guy and reading his post should be helpful.

Your advisors may be nice well intentioned people but they have told you some things that are incorrect. Just because people are willing to give advice does not mean it is right.

Sometimes we hear what we want to hear because that is the easiest thing to do. The right road is uphill. Some roads many people have paid many tolls to travel them. Some roads are private and not meant for everyone.

I do not claim to know all the answers. But I hope I know the answer when it hits me in the head like a tire iron.

theepowwowchic49 · 07-29-2003, 02:18 PM

:chief: wear this at your drum to be a REEL indi'n

standstill · 07-30-2003, 03:57 PM

...from the Boy Scout thread but hoopstergirl I hope you read this:

"Why is it that the longest, most drawn out posts are in favour of the Boy Scouts ridculing MY culture (and so many others on this board)? A culture that OUR Grandfathers and Grandmothers fought selflessy to preserve. A culture that I consider an heirloom: to be treated with respect and the utmost care to ensure that it is intact for future generations.

Why is it that I have to live everyday as an Indian, and then to celebrate my accomplishments as a Native woman, I take part in my ceremonies, dances, traditions. Yet a non-Native who has never walked one mile in my moccosins is allowed to join in on the "benefits" of being NDN.

Why is it that it's not bad enough that our human rights, respect and most importantly, land was stolen from us, now they have to greedily encroach on what piece of our culture we have left: OUR TEACHINGS.

Why is it that one cannot accept the fact that the Creator gifted many nations worldwide with similar teachings, yet the (and I use this term VERY loosely) White man discarded his from the getgo and now has to find personal happiness and peace in mocking and pilfering another Man's culture?

Live one day as an Indian. Live with tales of Residential school horror. Live with not being able to speak your mother tongue because it was outlawed. Live with not being able to fish and hunt because the Earth has been raped. Live with not being able to adorn oneself with an Eagle feather because of school policy, and then be compared to Marilyn Manson. Live in sub-standard housing with no running water and paper for walls. Live in a country where Indian Act treaties are not being honored, and in some cases not even considered, yet Whitey gets to keep his end of the deal. Live in a country that does not recognize it's First People's yet allows Ambassadors, Diplomats and tourists to bask in tax free heaven. Live with the fact that your traditions are not being respected on your own land. Live with watching the most sacred part of your being shamelessly imitated and misconstrued. Live like this for one goddamned day and I will give you my regalia to wear to an Order of the Arrow mockery.

We earn the right each and ever day of our lives to practice our culture. To celebrate our traditions. To honor our ancestors. To pass our teachings down, ON OUR OWN.

I said it once and I'll say it again. LEAVE BEING INDIAN TO THE INDIANS."

____________________________________

Let me show you how a real Ma do...

"Chocolate, coffee, men--some things are only worth it when they're rich" - Jibby™
Last edited by Jibby™ on 07-30-2003 at 05:02 PM

**Jibby™** · 07-30-2003, 04:06 PM

Oh snap...do not even get me started on this hoopstergirl "beating the drum" or "playing with a northern group".

*kneels down*

Creator , please grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, and the army it's gonna take to hold me back from tearing into this chic:Mad

07-24-2003, 09:25 PM	#21 (permalink)
peekaboo Junior Dancer Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: MY RIG-ALL THE COMFORTS OF HOME & MY CONDO P.T. Posts: 159	I HEAR THE BOYS SCOUTS OF AMERICA ARE ALWAYS LOOKING FOR A FEW NEW BOYS. WONT YOU TRY THERE FIRST. THEY WILL EVEN SHOW YOU HOW TO BUILD A TEPEE, BOW AND ARROW SET, AND EVEN MAKE YOUR VERY OWN TOM-TOM. AND FOR AN ADDED BONUS THEY JUST MIGHT HAVE B-BALL ON CERTAIN NIGHTS IN BETWEEN ALL THE 'BECOMING A TRUE AUTHENTIC INDIAN' CLASSES. __________________ "Never be bullied into silence. Never allow yourself to be made a victim. Accept no one's definition of your life; define yourself."

07-24-2003, 10:12 PM	#22 (permalink)
Jammer Teen Dancer Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Indianapolis,IN Posts: 252 Blog Entries: 1	LOL peekaboo. Hoopster evern though you want to do the culture well and respectful, I think you need to listen to what some of these people on here are trying to tell you. Most of them have been around the drum or singing for many, many years and know very well how things are ran and what would happen in certain situations. You want to do our culture right then respect it, and do so from having to participate. You wanna be a dancer or a back up on a drum then fine more power to you, but wanting to be head of a mixed drum and lead thats way out of your territory. Things are ran certain ways for a reason and have been done so for a long time, and then we get people like you wanting to come in and change everything, or do your own thing and be respected for it, ERM! WRONG, thats not gonna happen. People are gonna disrespect you more so if you try to make it happen. I guess you could try to do your own thing and see how far you get, but I doubt your get anywhere. __________________ There should be a law against stupid people being able to breed!

07-25-2003, 10:40 PM	#29 (permalink)
hoopster girl Hoop Dancer Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 81	I'll give you all the information so I can get bashed accordingly. I do beat the drum. I started becoming interested while playing with a northern group. I guess they are a little more open minded. ..not say you guys aren't. ..you guys are just more traditional. We just got a fourth singer for our drum. Count all of them. ..4. .If I sang backup, the octave higher. The 2 guys wouldn't be able to hold it. .not to mention I wouldn't be able to hold it. ..we'd wind up with the same part anyway. Our group was advised, to pick songs in our range. ..no reason to hurt our vocal chords trying to sing with those northern guys. And as much as I like northern, you can't beat those Southern Fancy Trick Songs. I became head singer, because I could put the effort in, that it deserved. I thank you, billyjoejimbob, for your support. And I only have one last comment As for this tipi building class .. .where can I sign up for it?? Woulda saved a lot of money than buying them from nomadics (the same people who did them for Dances With Wolves) Hoopster __________________ ooo.. shiny

07-26-2003, 03:25 AM	#30 (permalink)
powwowbum49 Arena Director Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: midwest, USA Posts: 810	Stop it before you hurt yourself or others Hoopster you certainly seem to want to be bashed...are you into S&M or what? With all jokes aside...obviously your advisors have absolutely no clue what in the sam hell they are talking about, and little to no knowledge of even basic native culture if they are allowing you and other girls to swing a stick at a southern drum. First off, you as a 'BACK-UP' singer do not have to sing an octave higher than the guys do. You just need to know when to come in on a song and have your voice blend well with that of the other singers. Second, with as few people as you have on your drum group you should be trying to listen and learn songs not trying to sing them publicly. You should be seeking the assistance of a skilled and knowledgeable singer in your neck of the woods and not 'making it up as you go'. Finally, I am a head singer of a southern drum in my area and also sing with more notable groups from other parts of the country. I have sang southern for over 20 years and I will tell you straight up...you show up at a dance I am at and try and swing a stick I will be protesting to the committee for them to force you to stop...and if they do not I will leave and not return to that dance again. I am sure you are good kid, but you have no idea what you are doing or the damage you might cause by doing it. Even bad things that are done unintentionally have a way of coming around and biting one in the butt. I do not care how few kids your group has singing your girls should back out of the front row where the boys are. If you don't want to take my word for it, then try reading the other posts that you seem to have ignored. I know several of these people personally and they are well respected people in Southern (i.e., OK) NDN culture. No one here is jerking your chain on this one. As for Billybob-hillbilly, having read your posts on here before I cannot believe you are defending the actions of the kids and leaders in this group that are allowing gals to pick up a stick and swing it with the men at a southern drum. __________________ PB49 "Every child is an artist. The problem is how to remain an artist once we grow up." Pablo Picasso My comments are based on what I have been taught and my experiences over the years I have been around the circle. They should in no way be taken as gospel truths and are merely my opinions or attempts at passing on what I have learned while still learning more.

07-28-2003, 01:21 PM	#31 (permalink)
TallmanFL Tiny Tot Dancer Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Orange Park, Florida Posts: 78	Hoopster. LISTEN to what people are saying to you. Powwowbum is a good guy and reading his post should be helpful. Your advisors may be nice well intentioned people but they have told you some things that are incorrect. Just because people are willing to give advice does not mean it is right. Sometimes we hear what we want to hear because that is the easiest thing to do. The right road is uphill. Some roads many people have paid many tolls to travel them. Some roads are private and not meant for everyone. I do not claim to know all the answers. But I hope I know the answer when it hits me in the head like a tire iron. __________________ Brian

07-25-2003, 12:08 PM	#24 (permalink)
billyjoejimbob Fat Singer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: white guy land Posts: 1,525	No offense singerdad (much respect to you and your drum) but why must every non-ndn singing group have to "try to do it in oklahoma"? There are 'NDN' groups out there that shouldnt "try it in okla" and no one says anything about it. Some champion drums out there lost all touch with reality and customs and are only in it for the money and fame (no names needed) Which is worse? An NDN 'selling out' customs or a white girl "learning customs" ? Its a hard choice. But I can tell you who is in it for the love of it and who isn't.

07-25-2003, 04:45 PM	#26 (permalink)
WhoMe PauWau Coordinator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Land of 370 Broken Treaties Posts: 5,555	Hoopster: You really don't need to go to Oklahoma to get advice, set up your drum OR get bawled out. You have a southern drum right there in NYC. Ever heard of the Silver Cloud Singers? I think the lead singer Kevin Terrant can answer some questions without you having to leave your back yard. "Why Hoop n Holler?":bouncy:

07-25-2003, 06:15 PM	#27 (permalink)
billyjoejimbob Fat Singer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: white guy land Posts: 1,525	Well Im assuming she doesnt beat the drum. I think they know better. Im also assuming head singer means she wants the get the group started and took up the reigns. Silvercloud IS a good drum. I remember back when they sang Northern AND Sothern songs. THey have come a long way.

07-29-2003, 02:18 PM	#32 (permalink)
theepowwowchic49 Senior Dancer Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Right off 270 & Main Posts: 522	:chief: wear this at your drum to be a REEL indi'n __________________ Friends dont let friends take home ugly Men. :huddle: :indian1: THE DARKER THE FLESH THEN THE DEEPER THE ROOTS :indian1:

07-30-2003, 03:57 PM	#33 (permalink)
standstill Junior Dancer Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 121	Posted with permission from Jibby.... ...from the Boy Scout thread but hoopstergirl I hope you read this: "Why is it that the longest, most drawn out posts are in favour of the Boy Scouts ridculing MY culture (and so many others on this board)? A culture that OUR Grandfathers and Grandmothers fought selflessy to preserve. A culture that I consider an heirloom: to be treated with respect and the utmost care to ensure that it is intact for future generations. Why is it that I have to live everyday as an Indian, and then to celebrate my accomplishments as a Native woman, I take part in my ceremonies, dances, traditions. Yet a non-Native who has never walked one mile in my moccosins is allowed to join in on the "benefits" of being NDN. Why is it that it's not bad enough that our human rights, respect and most importantly, land was stolen from us, now they have to greedily encroach on what piece of our culture we have left: OUR TEACHINGS. Why is it that one cannot accept the fact that the Creator gifted many nations worldwide with similar teachings, yet the (and I use this term VERY loosely) White man discarded his from the getgo and now has to find personal happiness and peace in mocking and pilfering another Man's culture? Live one day as an Indian. Live with tales of Residential school horror. Live with not being able to speak your mother tongue because it was outlawed. Live with not being able to fish and hunt because the Earth has been raped. Live with not being able to adorn oneself with an Eagle feather because of school policy, and then be compared to Marilyn Manson. Live in sub-standard housing with no running water and paper for walls. Live in a country where Indian Act treaties are not being honored, and in some cases not even considered, yet Whitey gets to keep his end of the deal. Live in a country that does not recognize it's First People's yet allows Ambassadors, Diplomats and tourists to bask in tax free heaven. Live with the fact that your traditions are not being respected on your own land. Live with watching the most sacred part of your being shamelessly imitated and misconstrued. Live like this for one goddamned day and I will give you my regalia to wear to an Order of the Arrow mockery. We earn the right each and ever day of our lives to practice our culture. To celebrate our traditions. To honor our ancestors. To pass our teachings down, ON OUR OWN. I said it once and I'll say it again. LEAVE BEING INDIAN TO THE INDIANS." ____________________________________ Let me show you how a real Ma do... "Chocolate, coffee, men--some things are only worth it when they're rich" - Jibby™ Last edited by Jibby™ on 07-30-2003 at 05:02 PM

07-30-2003, 04:06 PM	#34 (permalink)
Jibby™ NDNBUNZ Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: BABYLON HATE MACHINE Posts: 2,094	Oh snap...do not even get me started on this hoopstergirl "beating the drum" or "playing with a northern group". kneels down Creator , please grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, and the army it's gonna take to hold me back from tearing into this chic:Mad __________________ Got percap?

07-30-2003, 04:25 PM	#35 (permalink)
traci_m Circus Director Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 3,513