Is the drum sacred? - Page 2

traditional dancer · 07-17-2003, 07:16 PM

I don't know too much about drums or making them, but here's my two-cents:

I remember watching this old Ojibwe couple tie what they called a little-boy water drum and they explained its' power and meaning as they did this.

Also, I won't name names or the drum group(s) involved but this is such a cool story that was told to me a couple years ago...

My friend is a lead singer of a well-known Saskatchewan drum group and he told me this story. It happened a couple summers ago. He was at a pow-wow and the first night he noticed this one old man that was standing near them that kept looking at them and the drum. He noticed the old man standing around them again the next day, and also the day after that. Then finally on the last day of the pow-wow the old man came up to him and told him that he'd been watching them all week-end and he said that their drum was tired, and it was time for them to change the skin. He told him that there are only about five drums (from Sask. area) that can be heard in the spirit world, and their drum was one of them. Anyways, after that pow-wow they were going to practice and the first time they hit the drum it broke.

So I think yes, drums can definitely have power and a spirit, and be considered as sacred.

ndnchica2004 · 07-17-2003, 09:33 PM

Well since drums are considered to be sacred and they are used to contest. Look at dancers almost everything that they wear is sacred and they use that to contest to. so i dont think its any different. And i no most drums put something in between mother earth and the drum weather its a blanket or a stand (legs) but the reasons that i no of are because if the drum gets cold then "it goes to sleep" (but it depends what kind of skin) and also when you sing on the drum with your sticks then it moves so its just what different drums use.
And it depends on the Lead singer to what he wants around the drum and what rules he has set for the drums and the singers around the drum.

Jammer · 07-18-2003, 07:13 AM

Gotta say you can't say they are sacred and jam to em at a 9 later on that night.

TacO5000 · 08-03-2003, 12:46 AM

It's like this folks. in the southern world. before you sing on a drum it needs to be smoked, that is a powwow drum. a drum is not sacred. depending on the tribe, they all treat it with respect. the poncas talk to there drum. When you sing on a drum you rub it with your hand and when your are paid you rub your money on the drum to show it respect. the drum helped you earn the money. remember ya'll it's a tube with hide around it. it's a tool we use to sing songs. it's not a breathing creature. you white folks blow everything out of perportion. Stop it and listen to Indians. I hate when a White person thinks they know more than an indian. And white people have pride in what god made you. Your always trying to be something your not. I'm was born NDN and will Die NDN! Respect your self. I know I do! OKlahoma Till I Die!!! BIGG OKC SOUTHSIDE!!

Pheji Wanbli · 08-03-2003, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by WhoMe
I often hear powwow singers and announcers say the drum is sacred.

What makes it sacred?

"Powwow drums" as we know them are a little over a 100 years old. (have you ever seen a picture of a tribe moving camp with a big ole' drum loaded on the back of the travois)?:p

Some drums are blessed before they are put on the dance arena.

Other than that, why is a drum sacred?????????

:rofl2: :rofl2:

Pheji Wanbli · 08-03-2003, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by billyjoejimbob
some are, some aren't.

ive hear people say treat the drum like you would treat your mom.

a good rebuttal to that would be, "do we beat our mothers with sticks?"

I have also hear the the drum is referred to in a female sense.

i think your lost ,you need too touch the ground where my drum has been.

MeezeeKwe · 08-05-2003, 04:17 PM

Go NDNTACO49!!! Say it like it izzz!!!!

Fat Albert · 10-18-2003, 03:10 AM

That drum is as sacred as you want it to be. Take care of it and it will take care of you. Some people have 1 drum and use it for everything. Others have a singing drum and a 9 drum, etc. Some people I have met think the pow wow drum should be treated with respect because it comes from those prayer tools or Grandfathers. Some feel that the moment you start singing some of those songs, you start talking to the big one upstairs. But hey, I only know what others have told me so...

bqueton · 10-20-2003, 05:41 PM

You guys got me confused! I need to go sleep on this one!

Charlie TwoShirts · 10-20-2003, 05:52 PM

Is the bible sacred, crucifix, pipe, eagle feather, tobacco? These are just objects. By them selves they would be nothing. It is only in the hands of a person that uses these spiritual tools in a sacred manner that makes them sacred.

Now after you have taken a deep breath let me explain. If we took the drum and encased it in glass and just kept it there to look at, while we know the true power behind it is in the use of it, what good would it be? Yes, we could look at it and remember how it was given and where it came from, but if it is not used in the manner it was intended it would be as any other object on display in a museum.

Think on this one. ;)

bqueton · 10-20-2003, 06:07 PM

I like the comments earlier in the post that refered to the asking the elders. This made me laugh cause when my brother and I took our drum to Tahlequah this past Labor Day Weekend, a younger singer that was singing with us told us not to rest our drum sticks leaning on the drum. He then tried to tell us all about what we already knew. Then one of the older singers (an old Kiowa man) jump him and asked him "Why?" The fight was on! We sat and listened to the two of them for half an hour, rolling and laughing. And yes the Old Kiowa had the last word sending the young kids head down in shame. Basically, what came of this was:

I treat my drum with the respects that my grandfather taught me. My drum does carry medicine. I don't drink around it. I don't leave it out in the rain. We say a prayer on it before we sing on it. I do eat around my drum from time to time cause I get hungry. But I do respect my drum. When someone elses drum is being used, I treat it with the respect that person uses. Some take it to an extreme, others don't treat it with enough respect in my opinion. I've sang with a few drum groups who always say "Rookie carries the drum". I was taught that it is an honor to carry that drum into the arena. I always carry my drum into the arena or let someone who I respect do it. When someone asks me to carry the drum, I am honored to do so. Some may do things differently in your part of NDN Country. But I know I'm right as this is what my grandfather taught me. And you are right doing what ever your grandfather taught you, even though we may do things differently.

Fat Albert · 10-20-2003, 06:30 PM

Charlie & bqueton, I like how you guys put that to words. Question for bqueton: did the younger singer walk away with some learning after talking with the Old Kiowa? Unfortunately, too many people get into stuff like that and walk away cussing the elders for demonstrating they were 'wrong'. Sounds like an interesting exchange!

bqueton · 10-20-2003, 06:56 PM

No he didn't leave. He took it as a learning experience. He wasn't right, but just maybe he wasn't wrong either. What I learned is; dont go to someone elses drum and tell them they are wrong. If you absolutley don't agree with them, don't sing with them. And if they don't know, they should ask.

**ojibwaysweetie** · 10-21-2003, 01:15 AM

of course the drum is sacred no matter where it goes ya silly buncha ndns. :p

49singer · 10-21-2003, 02:16 AM

Who me seems to draw everyone in with his quest for knowledge, yet as the post go on, he seems to be more knowledgable than he initially lets on. Or maybe he's just trying to stir things up. LOL.

WhoMe · 10-22-2003, 05:33 PM

_____

Thanks a lot 49Singer. (*L w/ a crooked smile!)
_____

Through this thread I learned the following:

1. A pigs head stretched over a tube CAN be considered "sacred."

2. Different tribes have different beliefs concerning the drum. (a no brainer.)

3. Some people can't distinguish between a ceremonial drum and a powwow drum.

4. Good stories are just that.

oh AND> > >

5. Kiowa men always get the last word in. *LOL

____

Okay.

(*psht! opens one of lblcook's cold ones and stretches out)

What about Indian artisans who sell drums as furniture and wall hangings? (Yeah, they are in the booths at a lot of powwows. We've all seen them.)

What about 49 drums? (yeah, a lot of you have sung around them before!)

What about powwow drums that are plain old marching band drums? (the exact duplicate used by the Florida Seminoles and Fighting Illini).

Are these all STILL sacred?

07-17-2003, 07:16 PM	#21 (permalink)
traditional dancer Tiny Tot Dancer Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Indian Country Posts: 38	I don't know too much about drums or making them, but here's my two-cents: I remember watching this old Ojibwe couple tie what they called a little-boy water drum and they explained its' power and meaning as they did this. Also, I won't name names or the drum group(s) involved but this is such a cool story that was told to me a couple years ago... My friend is a lead singer of a well-known Saskatchewan drum group and he told me this story. It happened a couple summers ago. He was at a pow-wow and the first night he noticed this one old man that was standing near them that kept looking at them and the drum. He noticed the old man standing around them again the next day, and also the day after that. Then finally on the last day of the pow-wow the old man came up to him and told him that he'd been watching them all week-end and he said that their drum was tired, and it was time for them to change the skin. He told him that there are only about five drums (from Sask. area) that can be heard in the spirit world, and their drum was one of them. Anyways, after that pow-wow they were going to practice and the first time they hit the drum it broke. So I think yes, drums can definitely have power and a spirit, and be considered as sacred. Last edited by traditional dancer; 07-17-2003 at 07:18 PM.

07-18-2003, 07:13 AM	#23 (permalink)
Jammer Teen Dancer Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Indianapolis,IN Posts: 252 Blog Entries: 1	Gotta say you can't say they are sacred and jam to em at a 9 later on that night. __________________ There should be a law against stupid people being able to breed!

08-03-2003, 12:46 AM	#24 (permalink)
TacO5000 shesaysshelikesmy Dougie! Join Date: May 2002 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 624	It's like this folks. in the southern world. before you sing on a drum it needs to be smoked, that is a powwow drum. a drum is not sacred. depending on the tribe, they all treat it with respect. the poncas talk to there drum. When you sing on a drum you rub it with your hand and when your are paid you rub your money on the drum to show it respect. the drum helped you earn the money. remember ya'll it's a tube with hide around it. it's a tool we use to sing songs. it's not a breathing creature. you white folks blow everything out of perportion. Stop it and listen to Indians. I hate when a White person thinks they know more than an indian. And white people have pride in what god made you. Your always trying to be something your not. I'm was born NDN and will Die NDN! Respect your self. I know I do! OKlahoma Till I Die!!! BIGG OKC SOUTHSIDE!! __________________ Dayum I make some keen DrumSticks!!!!!!

10-20-2003, 06:07 PM	#31 (permalink)
bqueton Tiny Tot Dancer Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 92	I like the comments earlier in the post that refered to the asking the elders. This made me laugh cause when my brother and I took our drum to Tahlequah this past Labor Day Weekend, a younger singer that was singing with us told us not to rest our drum sticks leaning on the drum. He then tried to tell us all about what we already knew. Then one of the older singers (an old Kiowa man) jump him and asked him "Why?" The fight was on! We sat and listened to the two of them for half an hour, rolling and laughing. And yes the Old Kiowa had the last word sending the young kids head down in shame. Basically, what came of this was: I treat my drum with the respects that my grandfather taught me. My drum does carry medicine. I don't drink around it. I don't leave it out in the rain. We say a prayer on it before we sing on it. I do eat around my drum from time to time cause I get hungry. But I do respect my drum. When someone elses drum is being used, I treat it with the respect that person uses. Some take it to an extreme, others don't treat it with enough respect in my opinion. I've sang with a few drum groups who always say "Rookie carries the drum". I was taught that it is an honor to carry that drum into the arena. I always carry my drum into the arena or let someone who I respect do it. When someone asks me to carry the drum, I am honored to do so. Some may do things differently in your part of NDN Country. But I know I'm right as this is what my grandfather taught me. And you are right doing what ever your grandfather taught you, even though we may do things differently. Last edited by bqueton; 10-20-2003 at 06:22 PM.

10-20-2003, 06:56 PM	#33 (permalink)
bqueton Tiny Tot Dancer Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 92	No he didn't leave. He took it as a learning experience. He wasn't right, but just maybe he wasn't wrong either. What I learned is; dont go to someone elses drum and tell them they are wrong. If you absolutley don't agree with them, don't sing with them. And if they don't know, they should ask. Last edited by bqueton; 10-20-2003 at 06:59 PM.

07-17-2003, 09:33 PM	#22 (permalink)
ndnchica2004 Pow Wow Visitor Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: california Posts: 10	Well since drums are considered to be sacred and they are used to contest. Look at dancers almost everything that they wear is sacred and they use that to contest to. so i dont think its any different. And i no most drums put something in between mother earth and the drum weather its a blanket or a stand (legs) but the reasons that i no of are because if the drum gets cold then "it goes to sleep" (but it depends what kind of skin) and also when you sing on the drum with your sticks then it moves so its just what different drums use. And it depends on the Lead singer to what he wants around the drum and what rules he has set for the drums and the singers around the drum.

08-05-2003, 04:17 PM	#27 (permalink)
MeezeeKwe Teen Dancer Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: City of Corn Flakes Posts: 363	Go NDNTACO49!!! Say it like it izzz!!!!

10-18-2003, 03:10 AM	#28 (permalink)
Fat Albert Eater of all frybread!! Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Planet Earth Posts: 330	That drum is as sacred as you want it to be. Take care of it and it will take care of you. Some people have 1 drum and use it for everything. Others have a singing drum and a 9 drum, etc. Some people I have met think the pow wow drum should be treated with respect because it comes from those prayer tools or Grandfathers. Some feel that the moment you start singing some of those songs, you start talking to the big one upstairs. But hey, I only know what others have told me so...

10-20-2003, 05:41 PM	#29 (permalink)
bqueton Tiny Tot Dancer Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 92	You guys got me confused! I need to go sleep on this one!

10-20-2003, 05:52 PM	#30 (permalink)
Charlie TwoShirts Tiny Tot Dancer Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 34	Is the bible sacred, crucifix, pipe, eagle feather, tobacco? These are just objects. By them selves they would be nothing. It is only in the hands of a person that uses these spiritual tools in a sacred manner that makes them sacred. Now after you have taken a deep breath let me explain. If we took the drum and encased it in glass and just kept it there to look at, while we know the true power behind it is in the use of it, what good would it be? Yes, we could look at it and remember how it was given and where it came from, but if it is not used in the manner it was intended it would be as any other object on display in a museum. Think on this one. ;)

10-20-2003, 06:30 PM	#32 (permalink)
Fat Albert Eater of all frybread!! Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Planet Earth Posts: 330	Charlie & bqueton, I like how you guys put that to words. Question for bqueton: did the younger singer walk away with some learning after talking with the Old Kiowa? Unfortunately, too many people get into stuff like that and walk away cussing the elders for demonstrating they were 'wrong'. Sounds like an interesting exchange!

10-21-2003, 01:15 AM	#34 (permalink)
ojibwaysweetie PowWows.com Addicts Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Heart of the Great Lakes, Ontario Canada Posts: 4,977	of course the drum is sacred no matter where it goes ya silly buncha ndns. :p __________________ "Gaa wiin daa-aangoshkigaazo ahaw enaabiyaan gaa-inaabid"

10-21-2003, 02:16 AM	#35 (permalink)
49singer Tiny Tot Dancer Join Date: May 2002 Location: somewhere, USA Posts: 58	Who me seems to draw everyone in with his quest for knowledge, yet as the post go on, he seems to be more knowledgable than he initially lets on. Or maybe he's just trying to stir things up. LOL.

10-22-2003, 05:33 PM	#36 (permalink)
WhoMe PauWau Coordinator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Land of 370 Broken Treaties Posts: 5,555	_____ Thanks a lot 49Singer. (L w/ a crooked smile!) _____ Through this thread I learned the following: 1. A pigs head stretched over a tube CAN be considered "sacred." 2. Different tribes have different beliefs concerning the drum. (a no brainer.) 3. Some people can't distinguish between a ceremonial drum and a powwow drum. 4. Good stories are just that. oh AND> > > 5. Kiowa men always get the last word in. LOL ____ Okay. (*psht! opens one of lblcook's cold ones and stretches out) What about Indian artisans who sell drums as furniture and wall hangings? (Yeah, they are in the booths at a lot of powwows. We've all seen them.) What about 49 drums? (yeah, a lot of you have sung around them before!) What about powwow drums that are plain old marching band drums? (the exact duplicate used by the Florida Seminoles and Fighting Illini). Are these all STILL sacred?