gadaihongwas

I have found that people have very different perceptions as to what Smoke dance should look like. Particularly, when we talk about 'Old Style'.

Two examples of who I would consider 'Old Style' would be the late Kyle Dowdy Sr. for the men and Esther Sundown for the women.

Who would you consider to be classic examples of 'Old style' and why?

La + * Mom

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gadaihongwas

So true.

There are a lot of powwows out there that host separate categories for old style and contemporary dancing in jingle, men's tradish and grass. It's about time powwows in our own territory did the same for smoke.

indn_grl

I agree with Kyle Dowdy Sr.. Another that comes to mind was Lloyd Elm Sr.'s grandson. I don't remember what his name was but I had seen him dancing when he about 5 years old and man that boy could dance!!! He put grown men to shame. That was about 12 or 13 years ago.

When I think of 'old style', it wasn't about a lot of 'flashy' footwork. It was about being graceful, on beat and staying close to the ground. Your showmanship was what could make or break you. I'm not talking flashy. Puffed out chests, and classic arm movements. In general making it look like fun not work.

How can there be an old style women's smoke when smoke dance is a man's dance. Women only started participating in the late 60's/early 70's for dance demonstration purposes. It was to show that women could dance too.

oneidagirl22

growing up round kyle sr. and bill crouse, i lyk ol style better. meaning no fancy beadwork & accessories and no flashy foot work. i see a lot of men & women who have outrageous outfits and crazy dancing who get 1st place for it. wen ive seen the same ppl loose items of their outfits during competition. not mentioning ne names of course out of respect. there have been times when ive danced my hardest and because i hav a plan outfit & try 2 keep the beat w/out fancy footwork i either dont place or place really low. i think if ppl wanna call themselves iroquois smokedancers, then they need to think of the old ways that are still there.

trob226

I'm not familiar with old style, but having some Mohawk ancestry I'm really interested. Where would be good places for a spectator who is not of the culture to see old style smoke dancing?

6nayway

sge noh, i've been singin an dancin for a long time now an have seen a lot of different dancers, two "old style" dancers that are still dancin in contests that i like are kevin johnny-john for the men, an evelyn george for the women. both have been dancin longer then i can remember but still kick it up old skool, i was down at nmai this past year for the pow wow an watched the smoke dance special. the winner of the mens looks like he's doing the chicken dance, not the prairie chicken dance, but the honky chicken dance! lol! oh yeah, the trick song on friday got most dancers but kevin got it both times an didn't place, i was hopin to see evelyn there but i guess she couldn't make it. anywho........kevin an evelyn are two of my favorite dancers to watch. anybody remember the "spot light" dance off between kevin an glen miller at oneida a few years back? that was some serious smoke dancin

gadaihongwas

The two powwows hosted by the Seneca Nation Powwow, Seneca nation Fall Festival, Grand River powwow and Awkwesasne has a couple of powwows. You could also check out the NY state fair on 'indian day'. These are just a few events that host smoke dance contests in Haudenosaunee territory.

Of course you would have to weed out the contemporary style dancers from the more old style but they are there.

trob226

Thank you!

usdi

yeah, i have a hard time w/women dancing smoke dance. i grew up at onondaga and my dad pulled me from dancing at the fair when i was little because they had me do smoke dance...and this was in the 80's. i know times change and women didn't use to dance in the powwow circle, but i think that you should try to stay true to the original dance if you're gonna do it. with good footwork and classic arm movements. like, be respectful and think of the way our skirts are designed. they're close to our bodies because we're not meant to be jumping around and kicking our legs up in the air. i think it would be more skillful to have fast feet close to the ground than to just be spinning around and waving your arms. and also as someone else said on another thread, having fun with it. not being so cocky that you're slamming your feet on the ground when the song ends.

my-little-native

I agree with usdi about keeping in mind the way the skirts are made when your out there dancing

nativeproud

I believe that alot of "traditional" dances are becoming less and less traditional. Everything is going toward the eurocentric "bigger is better" ideal. Bigger bustles, flashier colors, bigger roaches. Its not about the dance anymore, its about the contest.

Just my opinion though.

__________________
"There is no such thing as 'part Cherokee.' Either you're Cherokee or you're not. It isn't the quantity of Cherokee blood in your veins that is important, but the quality of it...your pride in it. I have seen full-bloods who have virtually no idea of the great legacy entrusted to their care. Yet, I have seen people with as little as 1/500th blood quantum who inspire the spirits of their ancestors because they make being Cherokee a proud part of a their everyday life."

-Jim Pell, Principal Chief of the North Alabama Cherokee

trob226

I see there's a smoke dance competition at Cornell on April 12. I think I'll go - anybody else? Anybody been in the past?

Coyot_In_The_House

Although with out a doubt the late Richard Johnny John was Old Style....Kevin and his relatives have maintained it....The Dowdy family, Buck family, the Sundowns, the George family.....There are more....Gotta give a shout out to Onondaga too....The Lazures, Frank Mcnaughton, and the one n only Andy Fish!

gadaihongwas