Womens and Mens Songs....What-da-ya Think??

whattaheck · 08-29-2006, 11:18 PM

hey guys...wanna get a good debate going about what everyone thinks about men and womens songs! At Schemitzen two years ago and at this years Schemitzen, the singer played a slow war dance for the women. I was told that women aren't suppose to be dancin like that or to those songs! Do you all think that it's right that he should be singing those songs for the women? I think that if they want a slow song for the women it should be a womens dance song...not a war dance.

I sat there and watched, it was really silly to see these beautiful ladies, with dresses on, doing this masculine dance. Just think, what would people say if they played a duck n dive for womens traditional!

Even though it is a powwow, I don't think that we as Haudenosaunee should compromise what was taught to us. But I guess some people are willing to do that for a First Place Trophy!!!!

My opinion....What y'all think?

ADcRezFamily · 08-29-2006, 11:35 PM

I don't remember hearing a war song for the women, and I don't think Seldon would sing a war song for the women, there is song for women that is slow, but it's not a war song. Seldon lived on the Tonawanda rez, which is my home, and I know they would not let that slide.

But, if he did sing a war song for women, I would not agree with it. And the women should not have danced it. They should known better than to compromise their traditions for a grand prize. But sadly this is happening all over the powwow scene.

Good topic. Nya Weh.

Shquanebin

bvr_wmn · 08-30-2006, 06:30 AM

Unfortunately, sheldon did sing a slow war dance song for competition for the women on the second day. It was very much a controversy amongst the women. and yes it was silly to be a woman dancing to war dance.
Yes it is a powwow and not traditional. If you want to see something that would work for women try giving them one of those side step songs(jingle). The beat is very similar to the ladies dance. I know that a few were dancing ladies dance to it in the background(val,cassie).

WhoMe · 08-30-2006, 11:55 AM

Powwows have a way of changing tradition.

Mark my words....

This is only the tip of the iceburg

oneida_huny · 08-30-2006, 12:57 PM

In wisconsin last year (2005) they had the men and women slipt the floor and sang one slow war dance song, one half and half and one fast one for everyone. Personally I had NO CLUE what the heck to do for the war dance part and I don't think the other women did either. So we were dancing a slow smoke step. like Giyowa (moccasin dance). Thats what happened there. I thought they would have done it like that juss for exhibition but they did all of the contests songs like that. men on one side of the arena and ladies on the other side. It was weird. I walked off when it was done shaking my head thinking that was the craziest thing I've done. but we were judged on it. I didn't think they would do that anyplace else. juss thought it was lack of time or whatever. N the fact that the singer wasn't on top of his game. lol

Strugganona · 09-13-2006, 06:07 PM

Yeah...Thanks for outting my beans bvr! *L*

But that was real weird when he started to sing that slow war dance song...you could sooooo tell that we all looked at each other like we didn't know quite what to do at first....hmmm....I know that it is pow wow, but as Iroquois folks, we always want to keep the ceremonial separate from the social...From my stand, it WAS a really poor decision to pull that out.

3ndnbear · 09-15-2006, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whattaheck

Even though it is a powwow, I don't think that we as Haudenosaunee should compromise what was taught to us.

right on!!

that's what i did when i heard the song come on for the ladies.. lol...
i was pretty shocked..

Kituhwa · 10-05-2006, 03:29 AM

I kind of noticed that like what WhoMe was sayin', I think that's who said it, about powwows changing tradition. I go to powwows all the time, but I've never danced, I'm usually just a vendor, a volunteer, or a spectator. But when I get on here and read I have seen a lot of threads where people were upset by seeing something at a powwow that they felt was changing or losing traditions somehow. It must be hard to keep that from happening I guess.

bird leggs · 10-05-2006, 04:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whattaheck

hey guys...wanna get a good debate going about what everyone thinks about men and womens songs! At Schemitzen two years ago and at this years Schemitzen, the singer played a slow war dance for the women. I was told that women aren't suppose to be dancin like that or to those songs! Do you all think that it's right that he should be singing those songs for the women? I think that if they want a slow song for the women it should be a womens dance song...not a war dance.

I sat there and watched, it was really silly to see these beautiful ladies, with dresses on, doing this masculine dance. Just think, what would people say if they played a duck n dive for womens traditional!

Even though it is a powwow, I don't think that we as Haudenosaunee should compromise what was taught to us. But I guess some people are willing to do that for a First Place Trophy!!!!

My opinion....What y'all think?

I don't get this dance

Blackbear · 10-11-2006, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whattaheck

hey guys...wanna get a good debate going about what everyone thinks about men and womens songs! At Schemitzen two years ago and at this years Schemitzen, the singer played a slow war dance for the women. I was told that women aren't suppose to be dancin like that or to those songs! Do you all think that it's right that he should be singing those songs for the women? I think that if they want a slow song for the women it should be a womens dance song...not a war dance.

I sat there and watched, it was really silly to see these beautiful ladies, with dresses on, doing this masculine dance. Just think, what would people say if they played a duck n dive for womens traditional!

Even though it is a powwow, I don't think that we as Haudenosaunee should compromise what was taught to us. But I guess some people are willing to do that for a First Place Trophy!!!!

My opinion....What y'all think?

What the heck (no pun intended)? Who was the Singer??

Blackbear · 10-11-2006, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bird leggs

I don't get this dance

What dance do'nt you get? the Smokedance or the Old War dance?

oneidagirl22 · 10-12-2006, 12:32 PM

i competed this year at schemitzun in womens smoke and was suprised sheldon sung a slower song. but as to my knowledge of iroquois dancing, there is a difference btwn the men's war dance and a slow song for the women. i thought the women's was part of the "shake the bush" social dance songs. which is different from a mens iroquois war dance. cause if you watch the women dont do war dance moves during that song. this is just my way of looking at it. i know sheldon is traditional and would never sing wrong songs for competition. maybe im wrong, i dont know. im just putting my two cents in here. i am wrong, can someone please explain it clearly.

whattaheck · 10-27-2006, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oneidagirl22

i competed this year at schemitzun in womens smoke and was suprised sheldon sung a slower song. but as to my knowledge of iroquois dancing, there is a difference btwn the men's war dance and a slow song for the women. i thought the women's was part of the "shake the bush" social dance songs. which is different from a mens iroquois war dance. cause if you watch the women dont do war dance moves during that song. this is just my way of looking at it. i know sheldon is traditional and would never sing wrong songs for competition. maybe im wrong, i dont know. im just putting my two cents in here. i am wrong, can someone please explain it clearly.

The singer sang a war dance for the women, AND he also sang one in 2003. That's a clear as it gets.

08-29-2006, 11:18 PM	#1 (permalink)
whattaheck Tiny Tot Dancer Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 34	Womens and Mens Songs....What-da-ya Think?? hey guys...wanna get a good debate going about what everyone thinks about men and womens songs! At Schemitzen two years ago and at this years Schemitzen, the singer played a slow war dance for the women. I was told that women aren't suppose to be dancin like that or to those songs! Do you all think that it's right that he should be singing those songs for the women? I think that if they want a slow song for the women it should be a womens dance song...not a war dance. I sat there and watched, it was really silly to see these beautiful ladies, with dresses on, doing this masculine dance. Just think, what would people say if they played a duck n dive for womens traditional! Even though it is a powwow, I don't think that we as Haudenosaunee should compromise what was taught to us. But I guess some people are willing to do that for a First Place Trophy!!!! My opinion....What y'all think?

08-30-2006, 11:55 AM	#4 (permalink)
WhoMe PauWau Coordinator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Land of 370 Broken Treaties Posts: 5,433	Powwows have a way of changing tradition. Mark my words.... This is only the tip of the iceburg __________________ "Today, recognizing and respecting the origins of powwow aids in our Cultural Survival. If enough people break the rules because they are not satisfied...."We will have no culture." WhoMe

08-30-2006, 12:57 PM	#5 (permalink)
oneida_huny Smoke Dancer Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: at a longhouse near u! Posts: 156	In wisconsin last year (2005) they had the men and women slipt the floor and sang one slow war dance song, one half and half and one fast one for everyone. Personally I had NO CLUE what the heck to do for the war dance part and I don't think the other women did either. So we were dancing a slow smoke step. like Giyowa (moccasin dance). Thats what happened there. I thought they would have done it like that juss for exhibition but they did all of the contests songs like that. men on one side of the arena and ladies on the other side. It was weird. I walked off when it was done shaking my head thinking that was the craziest thing I've done. but we were judged on it. I didn't think they would do that anyplace else. juss thought it was lack of time or whatever. N the fact that the singer wasn't on top of his game. lol __________________ ~~~~~U juss Hate Me Cuz U Ain't Me!~~~~~

09-13-2006, 06:07 PM	#6 (permalink)
Strugganona Struggs not Drugs Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 716 337 Posts: 150	Yeah...Thanks for outting my beans bvr! L But that was real weird when he started to sing that slow war dance song...you could sooooo tell that we all looked at each other like we didn't know quite what to do at first....hmmm....I know that it is pow wow, but as Iroquois folks, we always want to keep the ceremonial separate from the social...From my stand, it WAS a really poor decision to pull that out. __________________ "Nobody's perfect, and I stand accused."--GREEN DAY!

10-12-2006, 12:32 PM	#12 (permalink)
oneidagirl22 SmOkE DaNcEr Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Lawrence, KS Posts: 140	as to my understanding...... i competed this year at schemitzun in womens smoke and was suprised sheldon sung a slower song. but as to my knowledge of iroquois dancing, there is a difference btwn the men's war dance and a slow song for the women. i thought the women's was part of the "shake the bush" social dance songs. which is different from a mens iroquois war dance. cause if you watch the women dont do war dance moves during that song. this is just my way of looking at it. i know sheldon is traditional and would never sing wrong songs for competition. maybe im wrong, i dont know. im just putting my two cents in here. i am wrong, can someone please explain it clearly.

08-29-2006, 11:35 PM	#2 (permalink)
ADcRezFamily Cherokee/Seneca/Baby Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Metro Washington, DC Area Posts: 106	I don't remember hearing a war song for the women, and I don't think Seldon would sing a war song for the women, there is song for women that is slow, but it's not a war song. Seldon lived on the Tonawanda rez, which is my home, and I know they would not let that slide. But, if he did sing a war song for women, I would not agree with it. And the women should not have danced it. They should known better than to compromise their traditions for a grand prize. But sadly this is happening all over the powwow scene. Good topic. Nya Weh. Shquanebin

08-30-2006, 06:30 AM	#3 (permalink)
bvr_wmn Tiny Tot Dancer Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 99	Unfortunately, sheldon did sing a slow war dance song for competition for the women on the second day. It was very much a controversy amongst the women. and yes it was silly to be a woman dancing to war dance. Yes it is a powwow and not traditional. If you want to see something that would work for women try giving them one of those side step songs(jingle). The beat is very similar to the ladies dance. I know that a few were dancing ladies dance to it in the background(val,cassie).

10-05-2006, 03:29 AM	#8 (permalink)
Kituhwa Junior Dancer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Denver Posts: 178	I kind of noticed that like what WhoMe was sayin', I think that's who said it, about powwows changing tradition. I go to powwows all the time, but I've never danced, I'm usually just a vendor, a volunteer, or a spectator. But when I get on here and read I have seen a lot of threads where people were upset by seeing something at a powwow that they felt was changing or losing traditions somehow. It must be hard to keep that from happening I guess.