What is a smoke dance? - Page 2

Kituhwa · 09-25-2006, 01:34 AM

I am from eastern tribes, but raised out West so I know how the original poster feels. I have read a lot about the eastern dance styles, seen pics, videos etc. but haven't gotten to see them yet. Every now and then here in Denver I've gotten to see dances from other Native people. I mean we see Aztec dances a lot of course, and I remember seeing some Mayan people from Guatemala playing some of their traditional songs and doing their dances at the Adams County fairgrounds once a long time ago. I went down to Gathering this year (Finally) I know they had the smoke dance right? I missed pretty much all the powwow because of the people I was with, boy what a rough trip, better luck next year I guess.

Jinekehane · 10-13-2006, 02:05 AM

Smoke Dance!-what-where?! IM available.mmhhmm (jokes) yeah did anyone see the smoke dancers at gathering? WOW! the girl who won had this really beautiful overdress on and she worked her bunns off and won a trip to Haiwaii. She battled out with the men it was awesome.

Kituhwa · 10-15-2006, 08:02 AM

Hi Jinekehane

That's definitely one I'm sorry I missed, I wish we could something like that out here for Denver March. Did you take any pics of the competition at Gathering?

Jinekehane · 10-16-2006, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kituhwa

Did you take any pics of the competition at Gathering?

NO, I was kicking myself for it. I left my camera in the truck, and my sister had snuck us in so I couldnt go back. I think she had hers though, I'll ask. Denver, A? and you are Skurure? How did you end up so far away from home?

Kituhwa · 10-18-2006, 01:18 AM

Hi Jinekehane,

Well, I was born and raised in Denver, my mom met my dad here when my gramma moved her family out here in the '70s. My mother herself was born in Virginia and so was my gramma. My grampa however, was born in North Carolina. I didn't know a lot about Native culture as a child, because I wasn't raised with it. Then in elementary school I met a Nez Perce kid named Danny and we became pretty good friends. One day we had to go "Indian Education". Unfortunately our teacher was racist, treated Danny badly because he was full-blooded, and me badly because I was mixed (the other kids had a much lower blood degree so they didn't "Look" as Indian to her). She ended up getting fired, but I asked my mom if I was Indian and she finally told me the truth. So I started asking my gramma and my grampa. I heard "Cherokee" a lot, but you know EVERYBODY says Cherokee. I managed to find a real link there though, but when I traced my grampa's roots they led back to the Tuscarora community still living in North Carolina. So, online I met a lot of friends from back that way like Chris and Mike, and another guy named Chris who all taught me a lot about the Skarure community that still lives there. That's the one I belong to (by blood if not by location) though they're not state or federally recognized, they're still there. They run a yahoo group to talk about issues and stuff, there are lots of Skarure people, even ones from up north, on that board.

Kituhwa · 10-18-2006, 01:23 AM

Oh yeah, and if you can find more pics I'd love to see them. I want to do some paintings of dancers, I already started one from some of the pics I already saw in the gallery.

**OneidaDreamer** · 12-21-2006, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhoMe

Are there any male smoke dancers that grass dance or traditional dance, as well?

Are there any smoke dancers that didn't have a category to enter, so they had to dance with the grass or traditional category?

Hmmmm?

Any chance of combining all three categories and having the first:

"WORLD'S CHAMPIONSHIP 'TRADITIONAL-SMOKE-GRASS' DANCE CONTEST?"

*lol

Count me in!! Aye!

bill dance · 01-05-2007, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chief swingin beef

I know theres more than one story of origin out there but this is the one I was told by a very knowledgeble person he told me that this dance comes from our old time war dance that came from the Osage people now this dance was done before they went to war. We don't go to war no more so we use these songs in some of our other ceremonies such as our thunder and rain dance where the dancers dance this old dance. Now they use to do alot of shows along time ago and they would do this dance and show them the war dance or some people would also call it the scalp dance. They wouldn't use any ceremony songs they would either make up new songs or they took songs from some of the social dances that we do and changed the beat so it was appropriate for this dance. Some where down the line someone came up with the name smoke dance. Now when you see the dancers dancing you'll see various different styles theres old style and now a days alot of dancers are coming up with their own style which is alright because this is what was done along time ago thers no right or wrong way to do this dance its all up to the dancer! I hope this helps out.

Do the Osages Still Smoke Dance in Pawhuska, OK?

Tcwgrlup41 · 01-08-2007, 02:27 AM

I am Tuscarora, I am from the Kever Longhouse in Prospect/Maxton NC. I am from the Snipe Clan and a member of The Tuscarora Indian Nation of North Carolina. We have our ceromonies and Mid Winter Ceromony. We still dance Smoke Dance in the Longhouse. The story that has been past down to us for generations was the Smoke Dance originated as a slow War Dance. It also was told to us that we did this dance to get the smoke out of the longhouses. The women would take and fan there skirts to move the smoke out. Over the years they sped up the music and this is when they called it scalp dance and then some where over time Smoke Dance. As a smoke dancer I love this dance. I am in my forties and I still can move with the best of the young ones. I do very well in my age group in competition.

Oo-ney!

Tcwgrlup41 · 01-08-2007, 02:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tcwgrlup41

I am Tuscarora, I am from the Kever Longhouse in Prospect/Maxton NC. I am from the Snipe Clan and a member of The Tuscarora Indian Nation of North Carolina. We have our ceromonies and Mid Winter Ceromony. We still dance Smoke Dance in the Longhouse. The story that has been past down to us for generations was the Smoke Dance originated as a slow War Dance. It also was told to us that we did this dance to get the smoke out of the longhouses. The women would take and fan there skirts to move the smoke out. Over the years they sped up the music and this is when they called it scalp dance and then some where over time Smoke Dance. As a smoke dancer I love this dance. I am in my forties and I still can move with the best of the young ones. I do very well in my age group in competition.

Oo-ney!

It's a poor frog, who won't praise there own pond.

Blackbear · 01-15-2007, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tcwgrlup41

I am Tuscarora, I am from the Kever Longhouse in Prospect/Maxton NC. I am from the Snipe Clan and a member of The Tuscarora Indian Nation of North Carolina. We have our ceromonies and Mid Winter Ceromony. We still dance Smoke Dance in the Longhouse. The story that has been past down to us for generations was the Smoke Dance originated as a slow War Dance. It also was told to us that we did this dance to get the smoke out of the longhouses. The women would take and fan there skirts to move the smoke out. Over the years they sped up the music and this is when they called it scalp dance and then some where over time Smoke Dance. As a smoke dancer I love this dance. I am in my forties and I still can move with the best of the young ones. I do very well in my age group in competition.

Oo-ney!

Whoever told you that you STILL have all those things lied to you... they were learned over the past few decades and have been taught to everyone there. Besides that, the Tuscarora did'nt have the smoke dance in NC. There was no existing culture of the Tuscarora left in NC, everyone had assimilated.

Tcwgrlup41 · 01-16-2007, 01:25 AM

Blackbear, I don't know where get information from. I don't care how you feel about the Tuscarora's here in NC. I know where my family came from. Mad Bear, who I am sure you know of, knew who we are. He is the one who helped us re establish our Long house and helped us with our Language. He knew who we are and he believed in us. Not all of us was assimilated. Some of the familys here in North Carolina still speak some of the language. I have been dancing since I was a child and I was taught the shuffle dance and the smoke dance. I am proud of who I am, and not you or anybody can take my heritage away. I am not saying I am from New York Tuscarora's. I am who I am. I am proud to know our rich culture of the Haudenosaunee. To many of my ancestors died in the Tuscarora War. My family trace's back to last Chief at Indian Woods who was a Smith. You should stay in contact and come to Mid Winter Ceromony and you would see that we are all not assimilated. Wish the best to you. Many blessings. Oo-Ney

Blackbear · 01-16-2007, 05:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tcwgrlup41

Blackbear, I don't know where get information from. I don't care how you feel about the Tuscarora's here in NC. I know where my family came from.

I am not disputing who you come from so you can stop right there. I get my information from other "tuscaroras" from North Carolina and I know for fact that no shreds of culture remained among you, especially those in the Robeson area. It's been admitted by honest folk and I don't hold it against them. The culture you've learned is from others coming down there to teach it to you and it's not necessarily Tuscarora culture, and most certainly is'nt pre-migration culture. Even though I know alot of folks there like to say that they kept it, they did'nt and that's a matter of fact. You can't keep a culture in tact and lose one of the biggest parts of the culture which is the matrilineal descendancy which determines not only your nation but your clan.

Quote:

Mad Bear, who I am sure you know of, knew who we are. He is the one who helped us re establish our Long house and helped us with our Language. He knew who we are and he believed in us.

Uh.. see that's not entirely true either... but I won't get into that here. It's too long a discussion.

Quote:

Not all of us was assimilated. Some of the familys here in North Carolina still speak some of the language.

Not exactly true either... some rememebered some words that were tuscarora, and some knew words that were cheraw, and some knew words that were catawba... there were no speakers in NC of Tuscarora in Robeson county that were known or recorded to have been speakers at least not after the late 1800's. That's why the accent/dialect there is like it is, and everyone there was recorded to have been speaking an elizabethan style when first acknowledged. And yes, all were assimilated, but that does'nt mean that they did'nt keep an indian identity... which yes I know they did.

See I know that there is a big priority there to learn the language and ya'll got tapes and books and people who went north to learn it and bring it back and teach it.... It's not like it was some big secret.

Quote:

I have been dancing since I was a child and I was taught the shuffle dance and the smoke dance. I am proud of who I am, and not you or anybody can take my heritage away.

I'm not trying to take anything away except for the misconception that culture and language remained in tact there when it did not. I do not think you actually knew that because if you did, then you would have been telling an outright lie, and I don't see you as the type to tell outright lies.

Quote:

I am not saying I am from New York Tuscarora's. I am who I am. I am proud to know our rich culture of the Haudenosaunee. To many of my ancestors died in the Tuscarora War. My family trace's back to last Chief at Indian Woods who was a Smith. You should stay in contact and come to Mid Winter Ceromony and you would see that we are all not assimilated. Wish the best to you. Many blessings. Oo-Ney

I never thought you were trying to claim to be from NY ever.
The "rich culture of the Haudenosaunee" belongs to the Haudenosaunee. Sorry hon, but NC tuscaroras are not Haudneosaunee. You did'nt come north, you did not join the confederacy, you are not Haudenosaunee.

You know I keep hearing this claim that so and so descends from Chief Samuel Smith. I've yet to see anyone back that claim up. Did you get your geneology from Marilyn too???

I've tried researching Samuel Smith myself and it's impossible to trace. If you can show me where and how I'd gladly welcome to be put in my place.

And Samuel Smith was from Blount's people. If you know a little history of the Tuscarora War you would know that it was Hancock's people that died in the Tuscarora war as well as many women, children and old ones at Torhantes and other "lower" tuscarora villiages and it was Blount that did not provide help and instead, sold them out for the reservation. So they were kinda your ancestors... but I descend from those that escaped from Neoheroka so I KNOW they were mine hon.

And by the way, oneh in tuscarora, is pronounced Oh-nay. Not the oooo sound. Most words in the Tuscarora language that start with an Oooo sound designate a body part.

Now I know this came off as really smart assed but I'm not actually trying to be. It's just that no matter how I try to write information to correct misinformation it comes off that way. And I could butter it up and decorate it with candy but it still get's interpreted by people your way as being smart assed so I'm just letting you know I'm not trying to be ok?

Blackbear · 01-16-2007, 05:31 AM

Quote:

10-18-2006, 01:18 AM	#25 (permalink)
Kituhwa Junior Dancer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Denver Posts: 178	Skarure Hi Jinekehane, Well, I was born and raised in Denver, my mom met my dad here when my gramma moved her family out here in the '70s. My mother herself was born in Virginia and so was my gramma. My grampa however, was born in North Carolina. I didn't know a lot about Native culture as a child, because I wasn't raised with it. Then in elementary school I met a Nez Perce kid named Danny and we became pretty good friends. One day we had to go "Indian Education". Unfortunately our teacher was racist, treated Danny badly because he was full-blooded, and me badly because I was mixed (the other kids had a much lower blood degree so they didn't "Look" as Indian to her). She ended up getting fired, but I asked my mom if I was Indian and she finally told me the truth. So I started asking my gramma and my grampa. I heard "Cherokee" a lot, but you know EVERYBODY says Cherokee. I managed to find a real link there though, but when I traced my grampa's roots they led back to the Tuscarora community still living in North Carolina. So, online I met a lot of friends from back that way like Chris and Mike, and another guy named Chris who all taught me a lot about the Skarure community that still lives there. That's the one I belong to (by blood if not by location) though they're not state or federally recognized, they're still there. They run a yahoo group to talk about issues and stuff, there are lots of Skarure people, even ones from up north, on that board.

10-18-2006, 01:23 AM	#26 (permalink)
Kituhwa Junior Dancer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Denver Posts: 178	Ps Oh yeah, and if you can find more pics I'd love to see them. I want to do some paintings of dancers, I already started one from some of the pics I already saw in the gallery.

01-08-2007, 02:27 AM	#29 (permalink)
Tcwgrlup41 Tuscarora4life Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: North Carolina Posts: 7	Smoke Dance I am Tuscarora, I am from the Kever Longhouse in Prospect/Maxton NC. I am from the Snipe Clan and a member of The Tuscarora Indian Nation of North Carolina. We have our ceromonies and Mid Winter Ceromony. We still dance Smoke Dance in the Longhouse. The story that has been past down to us for generations was the Smoke Dance originated as a slow War Dance. It also was told to us that we did this dance to get the smoke out of the longhouses. The women would take and fan there skirts to move the smoke out. Over the years they sped up the music and this is when they called it scalp dance and then some where over time Smoke Dance. As a smoke dancer I love this dance. I am in my forties and I still can move with the best of the young ones. I do very well in my age group in competition. Oo-ney!

01-16-2007, 01:25 AM	#32 (permalink)
Tcwgrlup41 Tuscarora4life Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: North Carolina Posts: 7	Not gone Blackbear, I don't know where get information from. I don't care how you feel about the Tuscarora's here in NC. I know where my family came from. Mad Bear, who I am sure you know of, knew who we are. He is the one who helped us re establish our Long house and helped us with our Language. He knew who we are and he believed in us. Not all of us was assimilated. Some of the familys here in North Carolina still speak some of the language. I have been dancing since I was a child and I was taught the shuffle dance and the smoke dance. I am proud of who I am, and not you or anybody can take my heritage away. I am not saying I am from New York Tuscarora's. I am who I am. I am proud to know our rich culture of the Haudenosaunee. To many of my ancestors died in the Tuscarora War. My family trace's back to last Chief at Indian Woods who was a Smith. You should stay in contact and come to Mid Winter Ceromony and you would see that we are all not assimilated. Wish the best to you. Many blessings. Oo-Ney

09-25-2006, 01:34 AM	#21 (permalink)
Kituhwa Junior Dancer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Denver Posts: 178	I am from eastern tribes, but raised out West so I know how the original poster feels. I have read a lot about the eastern dance styles, seen pics, videos etc. but haven't gotten to see them yet. Every now and then here in Denver I've gotten to see dances from other Native people. I mean we see Aztec dances a lot of course, and I remember seeing some Mayan people from Guatemala playing some of their traditional songs and doing their dances at the Adams County fairgrounds once a long time ago. I went down to Gathering this year (Finally) I know they had the smoke dance right? I missed pretty much all the powwow because of the people I was with, boy what a rough trip, better luck next year I guess.

10-13-2006, 02:05 AM	#22 (permalink)
Jinekehane aadoo niyoh ch'idi Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: AZ Posts: 69	Smoke Dance!-what-where?! IM available.mmhhmm (jokes) yeah did anyone see the smoke dancers at gathering? WOW! the girl who won had this really beautiful overdress on and she worked her bunns off and won a trip to Haiwaii. She battled out with the men it was awesome.

10-15-2006, 08:02 AM	#23 (permalink)
Kituhwa Junior Dancer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Denver Posts: 178	Hi Jinekehane That's definitely one I'm sorry I missed, I wish we could something like that out here for Denver March. Did you take any pics of the competition at Gathering?