chamber's farm

Apache_Fancy_Shawl · 04-02-2006, 08:42 PM

Hello, was at chamber's farm last night for a so called pow-wow.
In my opinion, they needed to call it a white man trying to have a Native American gathering. sevral of the dancers were walking across the circle with food and drinks, just so they didn't have to go around the circle. they had people smoking joints at the circle, and drinking all kinds of alcohol. The drums had all of the dancers confused about the songs they were dancing to. they called grass, and gave them a fancy shawl, called fancy shawl, and gave them more of a duck & dive song. They put down a few dancers. One a Woman Grass Dancer. They said no problem, we welcome you into our circle with open arms, then chased her out and told her she was a disgrace to her family. They said no dancing bare foot in the circle, they had sevral people in there without shoes, and said they were okay. It was funny, the AD tried to line the women and the men by age, not category, your age. They had some young lady dancing in a prom dress that was just about see through, and a short shawl. I don't know how pow-wow's are out west and up north, but I was brought up, you don't cut across the circle, you don't eat in the circle. And you don't drink alcohol or smoke joints at pow-wow around the circle or any place on pow-wow grounds.

tipis · 04-03-2006, 03:05 AM

Did you complain or at least let the committe in on these problems? This dance has a checkered past and is at least better this year than it has been in the last 8 or so. But I do agree with you, it does need to improve.

hobbs49 · 04-03-2006, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tipis

Did you complain or at least let the committe in on these problems? This dance has a checkered past and is at least better this year than it has been in the last 8 or so. But I do agree with you, it does need to improve.

As a hobbs myself, I generally bail on threads where hobbs come under attack. It's easier to survive here :-) and anyway, who am I to try to say what's right and wrong. The culture isn't mine, I'm just trying to borrow a piece of it while I exist here. I grew up in the midwest and have been spectating, dancing and singing (or trying to) since about 1968 when I was but a wee lad. Until adulthood, most of my activity was at hobbs powwows. Once I started living out west, I got a lot more opportunity to attend native dances in CA, CO, WY, MO, MI, and now NC (lots of powwows in NC!). I've never been to the dance in question, but I will say, that even as a hobbs, if the dance doesn't meet my expectations (native or hobbs powwow); if they aren't even trying to do things right; if they have no clue; well, even I know when to leave. Now, if I can easily tell who's on the committee, I might make an effort to tell them why I'm leaving. However, I'm not likely to go too far out of my way to do that because if they really cared, they would have probably done a better job in the planning in the first place.

I will add that there is, in my mind, a difference between doing things wrong and doing things differently. I will admit that it seems that at some dances on the east coast, or at least NC and VA, I've seen some things done quite differently than I've ever seen before. But for the most part, I chalk that up to the old "the farther away, the more they stray" philosophy, meaning that the east coast is pretty far from the plains and thus those things that I've seen or heard of being done out there have undergone some change by the time they reach here.

I will also add here that at the NC and VA powwows that I've been at for the past couple of years that I've been here, I've never, and that's never, seen any drugs nor alcohol use anywhere near the circle. Heck, I hardly see any cigarette smoking even! So either it's very well hidden or not a problem as it seems to be in other locations.

Sorry for the ramble, but my point was really meant to be that regardless if it's a native powwow or a hobbs powwow, it can be done wrong. If you're not comfortable with what is happening, then I would suggest leaving or as Tipis above suggests, working with the committee to fix it.

Lazy Is Unacceptable · 04-03-2006, 12:05 PM

I was there. Did not see any dancers cross the circle with food or drink, but there were some spectators, and the emcee called them down. Of course, I only have two eyes and may have missed seeing things you saw.

Did not see or smell any alcohol. Not saying it was NOT there, just didn't "see" it -- maybe I was sitting with a better crowd.

Danced all of Friday and Saturday, never smelled or saw anyone smoking pot. DID see some of the drummers, when the drum was in the center of the circle, smoking cigarettes, but not pot. As a matter of fact, didn't smell pot at all in or out of the circle.

The front AD put blankets out for drum songs and left them unattended...money blowing off the blankets and people (head man and other dancers) stopping to gather and put it back on the blanket. He apparently missed the woman at the front end of the circle (his end) with the 2 triangle swimsuit top going in the circle, but several women traditional dancers caught and got her out. I have seen him dance before, and he is fantastic. Ashamed not to see him dance.

The girl grass dancer -- she was a problem in November with rudeness to an elder during lineup for one of the grand entries. Paybacks can be hard and you never know when Creator will teach you that lesson.

I was disappointed during the Saturday fancy shawl that a couple of traditional women went in the circle to put down money, and then proceded to the east gate to "whoop and holler" over the song like white folks at a football game. I was just glad they were not of my nation. I was also disappointed in the jingle dress dancer. No fan, no footwork, no honoring the drum. She was young and will no doubt improve greatly.

Not all pow wows are going to be perfect. Those putting on a pow wow have no control over who shows up in the crowd or how people "perform" or "behave" when they get there. Some are rude, some are hateful, some are looking for an excuse to whine, some are looking to berate, and some, oh then there are those precious few, who go looking to dance for Creator. If you are there for the right reason, others will follow and this event will improve. Not addressing the issue when it happens and then putting this type message out on the web helps nothing, and what you claim (and what I claim) is only hearsay because there is no proof of it.

Negativity breeds negativity. Help instead of whine.

Ask yourself, what was YOUR contribution to this event? Did you put your best foot forward for Creator and for your people? Did you help anyone while you were there? If you failed in these areas, part of the blame for the event going the way it did is yours.

And yes, I ask myself these questions -- on a daily basis. It is a difficult way to live.

Lastly, if you get to an pow wow and do not like what is going on, PACK AND LEAVE!!! Nobody forces you to stay.

**MayChe** · 04-03-2006, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apache_Fancy_Shawl

Hello, was at chamber's farm last night for a so called pow-wow.
In my opinion, they needed to call it a white man trying to have a Native American gathering. sevral of the dancers were walking across the circle with food and drinks, just so they didn't have to go around the circle. they had people smoking joints at the circle, and drinking all kinds of alcohol. The drums had all of the dancers confused about the songs they were dancing to. they called grass, and gave them a fancy shawl, called fancy shawl, and gave them more of a duck & dive song. They put down a few dancers. One a Woman Grass Dancer. They said no problem, we welcome you into our circle with open arms, then chased her out and told her she was a disgrace to her family. They said no dancing bare foot in the circle, they had sevral people in there without shoes, and said they were okay. It was funny, the AD tried to line the women and the men by age, not category, your age. They had some young lady dancing in a prom dress that was just about see through, and a short shawl. I don't know how pow-wow's are out west and up north, but I was brought up, you don't cut across the circle, you don't eat in the circle. And you don't drink alcohol or smoke joints at pow-wow around the circle or any place on pow-wow grounds.

I was there and I will admit, during an intertribal I did smell something out of the ordinary in the circle. I totally put all the blame on the AD (not Clint, the other guy. I think his name is Rick Shawnee), who was also grabbing people to line them up for GE.

I wasn't confused by the songs. Some of them were pretty long, but other than that no problems.

The Shawl dancers got 2 songs, a regular song and a crow hop. Some of them didn't know what a crow hop was lol.

I don't know who the girl was with the prom dress (mom called it an After 5 dress) other than she's from Oklahoma and I think she came with some people from off the drum. They crowned her the Southeastern War Veteran Princess.

It was a weird experience but I really don't expect much from Chambers.

stomp · 04-03-2006, 04:01 PM

Apache,

If you had asked about the place before you went, those of us who have gone could've told you not to waste your time going to a place that is like a cross between Holloween and Rainbow people fun fest.

Wakalapi · 04-03-2006, 04:09 PM

ROFL ... lining up women by age... bet that went over like a lead balloon.

**MayChe** · 04-03-2006, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazy Is Unacceptable

I was there. Did not see any dancers cross the circle with food or drink, but there were some spectators, and the emcee called them down. Of course, I only have two eyes and may have missed seeing things you saw.

Did not see or smell any alcohol. Not saying it was NOT there, just didn't "see" it -- maybe I was sitting with a better crowd.

Danced all of Friday and Saturday, never smelled or saw anyone smoking pot. DID see some of the drummers, when the drum was in the center of the circle, smoking cigarettes, but not pot. As a matter of fact, didn't smell pot at all in or out of the circle.

The front AD put blankets out for drum songs and left them unattended...money blowing off the blankets and people (head man and other dancers) stopping to gather and put it back on the blanket. He apparently missed the woman at the front end of the circle (his end) with the 2 triangle swimsuit top going in the circle, but several women traditional dancers caught and got her out. I have seen him dance before, and he is fantastic. Ashamed not to see him dance.

The girl grass dancer -- she was a problem in November with rudeness to an elder during lineup for one of the grand entries. Paybacks can be hard and you never know when Creator will teach you that lesson.

I was disappointed during the Saturday fancy shawl that a couple of traditional women went in the circle to put down money, and then proceded to the east gate to "whoop and holler" over the song like white folks at a football game. I was just glad they were not of my nation. I was also disappointed in the jingle dress dancer. No fan, no footwork, no honoring the drum. She was young and will no doubt improve greatly.

Not all pow wows are going to be perfect. Those putting on a pow wow have no control over who shows up in the crowd or how people "perform" or "behave" when they get there. Some are rude, some are hateful, some are looking for an excuse to whine, some are looking to berate, and some, oh then there are those precious few, who go looking to dance for Creator. If you are there for the right reason, others will follow and this event will improve. Not addressing the issue when it happens and then putting this type message out on the web helps nothing, and what you claim (and what I claim) is only hearsay because there is no proof of it.

Negativity breeds negativity. Help instead of whine.

Ask yourself, what was YOUR contribution to this event? Did you put your best foot forward for Creator and for your people? Did you help anyone while you were there? If you failed in these areas, part of the blame for the event going the way it did is yours.

And yes, I ask myself these questions -- on a daily basis. It is a difficult way to live.

Lastly, if you get to an pow wow and do not like what is going on, PACK AND LEAVE!!! Nobody forces you to stay.

Well excuse me! LOL no your entitled to your own opinion. I was the jingle dancer and I was doing old style. That is why I did not have a fan and was not doing fancy steps. Also I'm not that young for your info.

We were honoring a fancy shawl dancer becuz she is insecure about here dancing. Excuse us for doing that also.

**MayChe** · 04-03-2006, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazy Is Unacceptable

I was there. Did not see any dancers cross the circle with food or drink, but there were some spectators, and the emcee called them down. Of course, I only have two eyes and may have missed seeing things you saw.

Did not see or smell any alcohol. Not saying it was NOT there, just didn't "see" it -- maybe I was sitting with a better crowd.

Danced all of Friday and Saturday, never smelled or saw anyone smoking pot. DID see some of the drummers, when the drum was in the center of the circle, smoking cigarettes, but not pot. As a matter of fact, didn't smell pot at all in or out of the circle.

The front AD put blankets out for drum songs and left them unattended...money blowing off the blankets and people (head man and other dancers) stopping to gather and put it back on the blanket. He apparently missed the woman at the front end of the circle (his end) with the 2 triangle swimsuit top going in the circle, but several women traditional dancers caught and got her out. I have seen him dance before, and he is fantastic. Ashamed not to see him dance.

The girl grass dancer -- she was a problem in November with rudeness to an elder during lineup for one of the grand entries. Paybacks can be hard and you never know when Creator will teach you that lesson.

I was disappointed during the Saturday fancy shawl that a couple of traditional women went in the circle to put down money, and then proceded to the east gate to "whoop and holler" over the song like white folks at a football game. I was just glad they were not of my nation. I was also disappointed in the jingle dress dancer. No fan, no footwork, no honoring the drum. She was young and will no doubt improve greatly.

Not all pow wows are going to be perfect. Those putting on a pow wow have no control over who shows up in the crowd or how people "perform" or "behave" when they get there. Some are rude, some are hateful, some are looking for an excuse to whine, some are looking to berate, and some, oh then there are those precious few, who go looking to dance for Creator. If you are there for the right reason, others will follow and this event will improve. Not addressing the issue when it happens and then putting this type message out on the web helps nothing, and what you claim (and what I claim) is only hearsay because there is no proof of it.

Negativity breeds negativity. Help instead of whine.

Ask yourself, what was YOUR contribution to this event? Did you put your best foot forward for Creator and for your people? Did you help anyone while you were there? If you failed in these areas, part of the blame for the event going the way it did is yours.

And yes, I ask myself these questions -- on a daily basis. It is a difficult way to live.

Lastly, if you get to an pow wow and do not like what is going on, PACK AND LEAVE!!! Nobody forces you to stay.

Well excuse me! LOL no your entitled to your own opinion. I was the jingle dancer and I was doing old style. That is why I did not have a fan and was not doing fancy steps. Also I'm not that young for your info.

We were honoring a fancy shawl dancer becuz she is insecure about her dancing. Excuse us for doing that also. Dang can't we have alittle fun? Geez...

kgirl7 · 04-03-2006, 11:28 PM

Yeah I was about to say, no fan and overly fancy footworks sounds like old-style jingle to me. I like seeing old-style jingle, it's very graceful.

suthernwaterbird · 04-04-2006, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TradJingle

I was there and I will admit, during an intertribal I did smell something out of the ordinary in the circle.

Quote:

they had people smoking joints at the circle, and drinking all kinds of alcohol.

It was called Hennessey Tobacco. Not weed, dope, crack or anything else you guyz are assuming. Just because you don't recognize a scent, dosen't mean it's drugs. I was singing with the host drum, and not 1 person was doing drugs, or drinking while singing. Now whatever happened after the powwow was over, I don't believe that is anyone's business but the singers'.

Quote:

The drums had all of the dancers confused about the songs they were dancing to. they called grass, and gave them a fancy shawl, called fancy shawl, and gave them more of a duck & dive song.

I'm sorry that you feel this way, perhaps our head singers judgment was compromized by the drugs he was taking.
Also, I request on how you may have confused a Women's Fancy song composed for Women's Fancy, with a Duck-n-Dive Song. It must have been the speakers, right? Or do you even know the difference?

**MayChe** · 04-04-2006, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by

04-02-2006, 08:42 PM	#1 (permalink)
Apache_Fancy_Shawl She Who Plays with Wolves Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Floor-it-Duh Posts: 96	chamber's farm *Hello, was at chamber's farm last night for a so called pow-wow.* In my opinion, they needed to call it a white man trying to have a Native American gathering. sevral of the dancers were walking across the circle with food and drinks, just so they didn't have to go around the circle. they had people smoking joints at the circle, and drinking all kinds of alcohol. The drums had all of the dancers confused about the songs they were dancing to. they called grass, and gave them a fancy shawl, called fancy shawl, and gave them more of a duck & dive song. They put down a few dancers. One a Woman Grass Dancer. They said no problem, we welcome you into our circle with open arms, then chased her out and told her she was a *disgrace* to her family. They said no dancing bare foot in the circle, they had sevral people in there without shoes, and said they were okay. It was funny, the AD tried to line the women and the men by age, not category, your age. They had some young lady dancing in a prom dress that was just about see through, and a short shawl. I don't know how pow-wow's are out west and up north, but I was brought up, you don't cut across the circle, you don't eat in the circle. And you don't drink alcohol or smoke joints at pow-wow around the circle or any place on pow-wow grounds. __________________ I’m here without you baby but your still on my lonely mind I think about you baby and I dream about you all the time I’m here without you baby but your still with me in my dreams And tonight it’s only you and me

04-03-2006, 12:05 PM	#4 (permalink)
Lazy Is Unacceptable Pow Wow Visitor Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 2	Hum... I was there. Did not see any dancers cross the circle with food or drink, but there were some spectators, and the emcee called them down. Of course, I only have two eyes and may have missed seeing things you saw. Did not see or smell any alcohol. Not saying it was NOT there, just didn't "see" it -- maybe I was sitting with a better crowd. Danced all of Friday and Saturday, never smelled or saw anyone smoking pot. DID see some of the drummers, when the drum was in the center of the circle, smoking cigarettes, but not pot. As a matter of fact, didn't smell pot at all in or out of the circle. The front AD put blankets out for drum songs and left them unattended...money blowing off the blankets and people (head man and other dancers) stopping to gather and put it back on the blanket. He apparently missed the woman at the front end of the circle (his end) with the 2 triangle swimsuit top going in the circle, but several women traditional dancers caught and got her out. I have seen him dance before, and he is fantastic. Ashamed not to see him dance. The girl grass dancer -- she was a problem in November with rudeness to an elder during lineup for one of the grand entries. Paybacks can be hard and you never know when Creator will teach you that lesson. I was disappointed during the Saturday fancy shawl that a couple of traditional women went in the circle to put down money, and then proceded to the east gate to "whoop and holler" over the song like white folks at a football game. I was just glad they were not of my nation. I was also disappointed in the jingle dress dancer. No fan, no footwork, no honoring the drum. She was young and will no doubt improve greatly. Not all pow wows are going to be perfect. Those putting on a pow wow have no control over who shows up in the crowd or how people "perform" or "behave" when they get there. Some are rude, some are hateful, some are looking for an excuse to whine, some are looking to berate, and some, oh then there are those precious few, who go looking to dance for Creator. If you are there for the right reason, others will follow and this event will improve. Not addressing the issue when it happens and then putting this type message out on the web helps nothing, and what you claim (and what I claim) is only hearsay because there is no proof of it. Negativity breeds negativity. Help instead of whine. Ask yourself, what was YOUR contribution to this event? Did you put your best foot forward for Creator and for your people? Did you help anyone while you were there? If you failed in these areas, part of the blame for the event going the way it did is yours. And yes, I ask myself these questions -- on a daily basis. It is a difficult way to live. Lastly, if you get to an pow wow and do not like what is going on, PACK AND LEAVE!!! Nobody forces you to stay. Last edited by Lazy Is Unacceptable; 04-03-2006 at 02:10 PM.

04-03-2006, 04:01 PM	#6 (permalink)
stomp Where's the next dance? Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: FL Posts: 97	Chambers farm Apache, If you had asked about the place before you went, those of us who have gone could've told you not to waste your time going to a place that is like a cross between Holloween and Rainbow people fun fest. __________________ Dance together.

04-03-2006, 04:09 PM	#7 (permalink)
Wakalapi www.wakalapi.com Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: East of the Mountains Posts: 1,278	ROFL ... lining up women by age... bet that went over like a lead balloon. __________________ "Friends don't let friends drink decaf..." Relaunched Nov 1, 2008. Completely rebuilt and easier to use than ever.

04-03-2006, 11:28 PM	#10 (permalink)
kgirl7 Hola! Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: AZ Posts: 332	Yeah I was about to say, no fan and overly fancy footworks sounds like old-style jingle to me. I like seeing old-style jingle, it's very graceful. __________________ Cariblanguage.org

04-03-2006, 03:05 AM	#2 (permalink)
tipis Teen Dancer Join Date: Mar 2000 Posts: 297	Did you complain or at least let the committe in on these problems? This dance has a checkered past and is at least better this year than it has been in the last 8 or so. But I do agree with you, it does need to improve.