Intertribal Dance Etiquette

Sleeping Bear · 06-19-2006, 02:35 PM

Do I owe someone an apology?

I hope someone can advise me. Yesterday I took my family to the Honor the Fire Keepers Pow Wow in Lake Geneva WI. Sometime after my wife took my youngest son back to the car, I heard an announcement regarding a woman who had her toddler son in the circle during an Intertribal dance. Apparently someone complained, and the MC announced that the elders had decided there was no harm done. I am concerned that the woman and child in question are mine. I understand that children are not normally supposed to enter the ring before certain ceremonies are performed on their behalf, but I thought that would not apply for an intertribal. I know that we are there as guests, (we have no native blood to my knowledge), and eagerly wish to cause NO offence. Can someone educate me?

(BTW, I don't mind some ribbing if I can learn in the process)

Thanks.

Hazben · 06-19-2006, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleeping Bear

...MC announced that the elders had decided there was no harm done...

Key phrase. Maybe the person that (you assume) complained didn't understand that it was an intertribal, or had a different idea about what that means?
For future reference, it would be good to seek out the Elders, offer tobacco, and ask them if what happened was wrong.
It is good that you are concerned about this and not just blowing it off. Too many others would just ignore the incident and go on as if nothing had happened.

**Eagle Plumes** · 06-19-2006, 02:57 PM

Well as far as I know if It was a intertribal there was no harm done, if they were dancing respectfully ,and was invited to come out and dance by the m.c. I have heard of complaints cause of kids playing in the arena , but I cant see any harm by just dancing when bing in there on an invite, perhaps it was directed to someone else.

Kio-Manche · 06-19-2006, 03:00 PM

Hey, Sleeping Bear, what, were you sleeping or something? LOL....

Sleeping Bear · 06-19-2006, 03:11 PM

Dances with Fry Bread, thanks for the advice. I am not yet familiar enough with the traditions of offering tobacco, etc. Is seeking the elders appropriate for a non-native visitor? My first concern is not offending the culture that I so appreciate.

Eagle Plumes, I hope you are correct. I know my wife was dancing respectfully, and my son was walking, holding her hand, or being carried at all times. I'm pretty sure he made no noise during the dance either. In fact, I'm pretty sure he was entranced by the experience the whole time.

Numunu1971, we all do what we do best, don't we. :-)

Thank you for the advice and kind words.

Sleeping Bear

Kio-Manche · 06-19-2006, 03:19 PM

Well, from reading your post and giving it a bit of thought, let me just say that I think sometimes people can be a little too "rigid" or "testy". You know? We're talking about a little kid here, and what are we trying to teach our kids in the circle? I try to teach my kids that this place is a sanctuary. A place to feel secure. When I see kids dancing in the circle, or even walking around with their momma's during intertribals, I encourage them, because if we don't, guess what.... our culture will slide right into history.
With that being said, there are times an apology is appropriate, but I don't believe the situation as you described warranted that. This is just one, 1!, opinion....
Wake up Sleeping Bear!!! Ha, ha, ha.....(You said we could rib you).....
Numunu

**Eagle Plumes** · 06-19-2006, 03:20 PM

Im thinking the complaint was directed to somebody else so dont worry, thank-you for careing enough to give a flip, ive seen some people do some pretty wacky things in my day, hope you enjoyed the dance and please go to more and learn all you can and maybe ill see you out there!

Sleeping Bear · 06-19-2006, 03:32 PM

That's my perspective as well, Numunu1971, for what that's worth. As a matter of fact, sometimes the only time I feel awake is at a pow wow.

Eagle Plumes, I take such things quite seriously, and I did enjoy the dance, as did my family.

I appreciate you both helping me feel better. I hope I will see you at a pow wow some day. Maybe if you come to one near Chicago...

Sleeping Bear

**Eagle Plumes** · 06-19-2006, 03:50 PM

Im glad you are fealing better, i love seeing the little ones at pow-wows, I have taken many little ones out to dance with me when they have caught my eye and given away many dollars to little dancers- of all colors.

**Migiziwomen** · 06-19-2006, 04:37 PM

you know the only thing i can think of is that if she was carrying your child that may have been the issue, otherwise from your posts it does not sound like you would let your child run all nillie willie around the circle so it was prolly someone else.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleeping Bear

That's my perspective as well, Numunu1971, for what that's worth. As a matter of fact, sometimes the only time I feel awake is at a pow wow.
as for offering tobacco do not worry about that if you do it with the same respect that you are showing now for my culture you will do just fine. here is how i was taught: you offer him or her some tobacco say a small handful, then ask them if you may ask them for some advise, you will get your answer on wether or not they want to talk to you, then ask your questions, when you are done you thank them and then offer the rest of the tobacco in the pouch.
thank you for showing your interest in a respectful and honoring way, good luck to you.

Eagle Plumes, I take such things quite seriously, and I did enjoy the dance, as did my family.

I appreciate you both helping me feel better. I hope I will see you at a pow wow some day. Maybe if you come to one near Chicago...

Sleeping Bear

**kiyaanii mom** · 06-19-2006, 04:45 PM

If the m.c. announced that no harm was done, then everything is O.K. If you are not sure what to do next time, you are always welcome to approach the powwow committee (who are usually around the m.c. stand/table) and make sure everything is O.K.

I agree with Numunu, sometimes, some people get too rigid. And chances are you would have had a different experience at a different powwow.

Sleeping Bear · 06-19-2006, 05:09 PM

Ah, Carrying might have been a problem. I'm not sure she did, but she might have. (I was sleeping part of the time). I'll make a point of telling her not to do that in the future.

Thank you, Migiziwomen and kiyaanii mom.

Sleeping Bear · 06-19-2006, 05:22 PM

Migiziwomen, I just noticed a reply to an earlier question embedded in the quote of one of my replies. Thank you. Could you tell me in what form tobacco is given? I do not smoke, and I would expect that offering a pack of cigarettes would be highly frowned upon :-). Is tobacco given in twists? In commercial pouches? In traditional pouches? See how much I still have to learn?

Thank you very much.

calicoquilts · 06-19-2006, 06:38 PM

I understand what happen to you. Several years ago my family attended a dance in WI. My son was a newborn and I was dancing with him during an intertribal. This is something that we do here in ND. Anyways, the arena director pulled me aside and informed me that I was offending the elders. The AD didn't explain why?? But the announcer made a big thing about it. In short, it is their belief that when you carrying a child while dancing it is like offering the child back to the spirit world. A child shouldn't enter the arena unless they are able to do it on their own. The announcer also stated that I should know the customes before attending at another tribes' dances. My husband's drum group was there for a singing contest, he stayed and I left. I was offended how the situation was handled. The arena director could have told me privately what I was doing wrong instead of the announcer making a big deal about it.

06-19-2006, 02:35 PM	#1 (permalink)
Sleeping Bear Dances with Lead Foot Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: She ga goy nak Posts: 601	Intertribal Dance Etiquette Do I owe someone an apology? I hope someone can advise me. Yesterday I took my family to the Honor the Fire Keepers Pow Wow in Lake Geneva WI. Sometime after my wife took my youngest son back to the car, I heard an announcement regarding a woman who had her toddler son in the circle during an Intertribal dance. Apparently someone complained, and the MC announced that the elders had decided there was no harm done. I am concerned that the woman and child in question are mine. I understand that children are not normally supposed to enter the ring before certain ceremonies are performed on their behalf, but I thought that would not apply for an intertribal. I know that we are there as guests, (we have no native blood to my knowledge), and eagerly wish to cause NO offence. Can someone educate me? (BTW, I don't mind some ribbing if I can learn in the process) Thanks. Last edited by Sleeping Bear; 06-19-2006 at 02:40 PM.

06-19-2006, 03:00 PM	#4 (permalink)
Kio-Manche a.k.a Numunu1971 Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Ponca City, Ok. Born and Raised in Lawton Ok. Posts: 1,603	Hey, Sleeping Bear, what, were you sleeping or something? LOL.... __________________ Kio-Manche Oklahoma Proud!!!

06-19-2006, 03:19 PM	#6 (permalink)
Kio-Manche a.k.a Numunu1971 Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Ponca City, Ok. Born and Raised in Lawton Ok. Posts: 1,603	Well, from reading your post and giving it a bit of thought, let me just say that I think sometimes people can be a little too "rigid" or "testy". You know? We're talking about a little kid here, and what are we trying to teach our kids in the circle? I try to teach my kids that this place is a sanctuary. A place to feel secure. When I see kids dancing in the circle, or even walking around with their momma's during intertribals, I encourage them, because if we don't, guess what.... our culture will slide right into history. With that being said, there are times an apology is appropriate, but I don't believe the situation as you described warranted that. This is just one, 1!, opinion.... Wake up Sleeping Bear!!! Ha, ha, ha.....(You said we could rib you)..... Numunu __________________ Kio-Manche Oklahoma Proud!!!

06-19-2006, 05:22 PM	#13 (permalink)
Sleeping Bear Dances with Lead Foot Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: She ga goy nak Posts: 601	Migiziwomen, I just noticed a reply to an earlier question embedded in the quote of one of my replies. Thank you. Could you tell me in what form tobacco is given? I do not smoke, and I would expect that offering a pack of cigarettes would be highly frowned upon :-). Is tobacco given in twists? In commercial pouches? In traditional pouches? See how much I still have to learn? Thank you very much. Last edited by Sleeping Bear; 06-19-2006 at 05:26 PM.

06-19-2006, 02:57 PM	#3 (permalink)
Eagle Plumes Just Bead it! Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: MId-West Posts: 11,491	Well as far as I know if It was a intertribal there was no harm done, if they were dancing respectfully ,and was invited to come out and dance by the m.c. I have heard of complaints cause of kids playing in the arena , but I cant see any harm by just dancing when bing in there on an invite, perhaps it was directed to someone else.

06-19-2006, 03:11 PM	#5 (permalink)
Sleeping Bear Dances with Lead Foot Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: She ga goy nak Posts: 601	Dances with Fry Bread, thanks for the advice. I am not yet familiar enough with the traditions of offering tobacco, etc. Is seeking the elders appropriate for a non-native visitor? My first concern is not offending the culture that I so appreciate. Eagle Plumes, I hope you are correct. I know my wife was dancing respectfully, and my son was walking, holding her hand, or being carried at all times. I'm pretty sure he made no noise during the dance either. In fact, I'm pretty sure he was entranced by the experience the whole time. Numunu1971, we all do what we do best, don't we. :-) Thank you for the advice and kind words. Sleeping Bear

06-19-2006, 03:20 PM	#7 (permalink)
Eagle Plumes Just Bead it! Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: MId-West Posts: 11,491	Im thinking the complaint was directed to somebody else so dont worry, thank-you for careing enough to give a flip, ive seen some people do some pretty wacky things in my day, hope you enjoyed the dance and please go to more and learn all you can and maybe ill see you out there!

06-19-2006, 03:32 PM	#8 (permalink)
Sleeping Bear Dances with Lead Foot Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: She ga goy nak Posts: 601	That's my perspective as well, Numunu1971, for what that's worth. As a matter of fact, sometimes the only time I feel awake is at a pow wow. Eagle Plumes, I take such things quite seriously, and I did enjoy the dance, as did my family. I appreciate you both helping me feel better. I hope I will see you at a pow wow some day. Maybe if you come to one near Chicago... Sleeping Bear

06-19-2006, 03:50 PM	#9 (permalink)
Eagle Plumes Just Bead it! Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: MId-West Posts: 11,491	Im glad you are fealing better, i love seeing the little ones at pow-wows, I have taken many little ones out to dance with me when they have caught my eye and given away many dollars to little dancers- of all colors.

06-19-2006, 04:45 PM	#11 (permalink)
kiyaanii mom We'll See.... Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Down the street from Walmart....Yippee! Posts: 3,390	If the m.c. announced that no harm was done, then everything is O.K. If you are not sure what to do next time, you are always welcome to approach the powwow committee (who are usually around the m.c. stand/table) and make sure everything is O.K. I agree with Numunu, sometimes, some people get too rigid. And chances are you would have had a different experience at a different powwow.

06-19-2006, 05:09 PM	#12 (permalink)
Sleeping Bear Dances with Lead Foot Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: She ga goy nak Posts: 601	Ah, Carrying might have been a problem. I'm not sure she did, but she might have. (I was sleeping part of the time). I'll make a point of telling her not to do that in the future. Thank you, Migiziwomen and kiyaanii mom.

06-19-2006, 06:38 PM	#14 (permalink)
calicoquilts Pow Wow Visitor Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: northern country Posts: 21	I understand what happen to you. Several years ago my family attended a dance in WI. My son was a newborn and I was dancing with him during an intertribal. This is something that we do here in ND. Anyways, the arena director pulled me aside and informed me that I was offending the elders. The AD didn't explain why?? But the announcer made a big thing about it. In short, it is their belief that when you carrying a child while dancing it is like offering the child back to the spirit world. A child shouldn't enter the arena unless they are able to do it on their own. The announcer also stated that I should know the customes before attending at another tribes' dances. My husband's drum group was there for a singing contest, he stayed and I left. I was offended how the situation was handled. The arena director could have told me privately what I was doing wrong instead of the announcer making a big deal about it.

06-20-2006, 12:38 AM	#15 (permalink)
Wakalapi www.wakalapi.com Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: East of the Mountains Posts: 1,282