06-11-2006, 10:17 AM
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#1 (permalink) |
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Pow Wow Visitor
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2
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Bay Mills drum contest
Something strange going on here. First, the drum rules state that any rules can be altered, deleted or changed at any time during the weekend. Why have rules????
Next thing, the same judges are used for every song judged. ****, they're going to judge the same way each time. The judges are related or sing with two of the drum groups. One of the groups is practically hometown. The judges are hometown. WTF?? Maybe something different will happen today so that the contest at least appears to be fair. |
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06-12-2006, 01:09 AM
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#2 (permalink) |
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Teen Dancer
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Ojib territory
Posts: 266
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I don't know exactly how this contest was run but I heard the same complaints from other singers. That was a "different" rule. By the way, I am NOT affiliated with any of the singing groups. I do serve on a committee for a different Michigan pow-wow.
I guess the only thing I found "different" was announcing who held the top 5 positions for the drum contest on Saturday night.  I thought that was very disheartening and extremely discouraging to all of the groups that weren't in the top 5. I didnt agree with that at all. As a dancer I was thinking......if I was dancing contest and they announced the top 3 dancers at the end of the day and I wasnt in there  DISCOURAGING!!!I dont know....like I said, I'm not a singer and I dont know the logic behind the decisions that were made but I heard lots of complaints about these two things. |
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06-12-2006, 10:27 AM
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#3 (permalink) |
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Pow Wow Visitor
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2
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This is how it went.
Young Guns Smokeytown Tha Tribe Redstone Ojibway Bearheart Snake Island Eagle Flight The judges were basically the same for Sunday. Hometown. The contest results were determined by 4-5 guys. Five songs judged- I think. Friday night, there was a grand entry. Points were awarded for the dancers. Exhib. and GE points. Drums got no points. Don't know why, they advertised a 7 o'clock GE with points starting on Friday. Redstone & Young Guns didn't show on Friday. Maybe that's why there was no drum points that day. Maybe another reason why the head drum judge had the authority to change, alter, delete or add rules as the weekend progressed. The adult categories got to pick their drum for their 2nd contest song. Smokeytown got selected most of the time. In fact, they sang almost every other song on Sunday. Bearheart, Eagle Flight, Snake Island and Tha Tribe all got picked for 1-2 contest songs. Dancers never selected Young Guns or Redstone Ojibwe not once. The drum judges heard something entirely different than all the adult dancers. This is what happened. All you singers can determine if you want to go there next year. |
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06-13-2006, 02:37 PM
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#4 (permalink) |
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Nocka
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Niishnabe Ki
Posts: 93
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the biggest problem I had with the whole contest, was that the pw chairman, his brother, the head drum judge, and basically their friends ran and judged the singing contest. The head drum judge, who is also a state trooper, didn't know how to run a singing contest to begin with, and after every round of judging, the judges would come together and compare each other's scores. it looked like they were co-ordinating each drum's overall scores which looked very shady. crazy stuff!
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You can't have a powwow without a drum! |
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06-14-2006, 11:35 AM
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#7 (permalink) |
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Pow Wow Visitor
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2
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No pow-wow is perfect. But I believe the committee (yes, made up of community members) held fairness of the competition in high regard. I have never been to a pow-wow (I have been to plenty) where there wasn't some kind of complaint about the results, or the way it was run. As for the drum judges being the same individuals, that is true (one was replaced for Sunday's session to maintain the integrity of the competition). It seems to me (I have competed for drum money as well) that rotating judges brings about the same (if not more) level of complaints as the system used in Bay Mills. Switching the judges will be considered for next years' pow-wow, but I don't think any of the judges were unfair. The scorecards used for the drum competition were detailed and complete. Each lead was judged, tempo, appropriateness of song, etc. A drum had to have their stuff together to score well. Which simply means, Drums competing at Bay Mills were scored on their effort, not their name or reputation. Afterward, the head drum judge retrieved all cards and examined them for fairness and consistency. For instance, if someone scored a drum with a "10" in a category when all else scored a "4" for an obvious mistake, the head drum judge would question that judge. No points were changed. Drums DID receive points for Friday's session. Therefore, those drums that showed on Saturday were already at a point disadvantage. The allegation that some of the judges were related to members of a drum is also true. However, that drum did not even score in the top 3, and the other judges points were consistent. Finding people NOT related to participants in a pow-wow is difficult (we are a community of family members!). However, this will be reconsidered for next years' event. In closing, I would add that participants in our competitions are our guests, as such, I think it highly irregular for members of a drum to question, cast allegations and personally attack the hosts. I have been to several competitions and I would never think to cast stones like some of our competitors did. I have the utmost respect for all our participants and I hope to see them in future events at Bay Mills. We will consider changing many aspects of our competition to improve upon fairness. We appreciate all suggestions. Miigwetch!
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06-15-2006, 02:20 AM
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#10 (permalink) | |
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Singer/ Dancer
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Ohio
Posts: 15,474
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Quote:
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I became a singer because I love to sing... and to feed my addiction to cough drops! |
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06-15-2006, 06:11 PM
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#11 (permalink) |
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Pow Wow Visitor
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 6
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Good powwow. Excellent scoring system. Don't change a thing.
There has been only two powwows that I know of that have a fair contest. Rhode Island & Bay Mills. Keep up the good work. We'll be back! |
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06-15-2006, 06:29 PM
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#12 (permalink) | |
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Pow Wow Visitor
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3
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06-15-2006, 07:36 PM
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#14 (permalink) | |
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Pow-Wow Singer
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: On The Pow-Wow Circuit.
Posts: 177
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Quote:
 Isn't the Rhode Island pow-wow the other pow-wow that Young Gunz has placed first at?!?! LOL What a coincidence! The only fair pow-wows are where a group like Young Gunz wins at. Hmmm, must be something wrong with the system for sure.
__________________
*There are 2 sides to every coin! *A man can be as great as he wants to be. If you believe in yourself and have the courage, the determination, the dedication, the competitive drive and if you are willing to sacrifice the little things in life and pay the price for the things that are worthwhile, it can be done. - Vince Lombardi *Individual commitment to a group effort - that is what makes a team work, a company work, a society work, a civilization work. - Vince Lombardi |
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06-15-2006, 08:37 PM
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#15 (permalink) | |
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Teen Dancer
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Ojib territory
Posts: 266
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