Str8Dancer49

Cool thread.... I agree with almost everything on here....

Spot checks are bogus. I really hate when the committee decides to give points for two steps - dang, gonna get a brother in trouble with his #1 snag - "Really honey, I was just dancing with her to get my points, she don't mean nothing!"

The best system I think is where the committee requires that you make 2 out of 3, or 3 out of five GE's. No points, just an eligibility thing. That way, if one time you got stuck in traffic, the kids didn't get dressed right away, you're sittin in the "O" or whatever, you still got a chance to get in on the contests, but you're not getting penalized for missing a GE.

As for the fairness of judging, one dance I went to, the committee posted all of their tabulations after the payout, so you could see how many points you had. Personally, I didn't place at that dance, but instead of thinking "I got robbed, those guys are just crooked" I saw the tabulations and thought "Dang, I just missed out by 5 points, and I got votes from some of the judges, so no big deal." Posting the tabulations will keep committees from "tweaking" the result. We could take this idea one step further, and post every judge's ballot, so we could all see that the committee's results and the judges OPINIONS (that's what they are - I totally agree with the figure skating analogy) are all square. Plus, that way, you'd know which judge to jump in the parking lot after the dance! haha - just joking, please don't tell the cops "Str8dancer49 said to kick that judge's butt!"

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WhoMe

Str8,

This is a really good idea!!! It would give some accountability.

I have seen it done only twice.

It is too bad that most powwow committees do not have the manpower to make it a standardized practice.

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The_HULK

First of all, I think G.E points should be announced when registering, just so everyone knows exactly what is expected, and how important they are.

Mainly, I think that dance (and singing, but that's a different thread) contests should be focused on the contest portion, and G.E, spot checks, exhibitions should be registered just as bonuses. I know about all the, " this comes along with the contest, G.E is an important part... etc. ".

Fact of that matter is this, sometimes.... better yet, A LOT of the time, people have a hard time making deadlines at a pow-wow (this is how "Indian Time" has become so popular). It's hard to be a good contest participant, parent, sibling, and care provider all at the same time! While being 20+ hours away from home! For example, in big cities where it is very easy to get lost, cab not making it on time, should have an obvious leniency towards all participants.

Most of all, NOT having a big point deduction for formalities is what I would ideally like to see, probably would never happen.

I think the only way G.E, exhibition, and role call points should seperate a champion from others, is if the balloting was so close and it came down to a matter of a few points. Just as any mainstream competition between single and multiple competitors.


AHO

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Nezbah

MEMEMEMEMEMEME!!!

Yeah and its double-triple harder on us single parents!! I don't know how many times I have called my friends from the Cellie, 10 mins outside the powwow, still on the freeway, asking 'has GE started??'. Luckily my lil one is in Jr's so I know I have at least 10-15mins leeway before they get out. But driving fast through the parkin lot, creating a dust storm, just to pull up at the gate, shovin the lil ones out, tellin them to RUN!! LOL. The worst is tryin to get them dressed while still in the car, all just to make a GE at 7pm on a Friday night.

Working, cleaning, feeding, packin, lookin after them, etc etc. Takes alot of time. Peeps ask me why I haven't gone back into the circle (yeah, I used to dance before I was preggars) its only because the lil ones take so much dedication, its their time now. I'll dance when I am ready. But it is really hard to make the GE's when its a Friday. *S*.

We all sacrifice alot just to get some lil points when its really unneccessary to 'rush' there. Everyone here has a valid 'beef'...LOL. I don't know its like that other thread about Powwow kills, all this unneccesary stuff we have to go through just to get a point.

I know there are alot of dancers who place and don't go thru GE, spot checks, etc but its not their fault for having a 'name' or being related to so-so on the committee. Unfortunately, we're not all going to place just because we dance every GE, get every spot check, etc.

I just keep tellin my lil one, its not about winning, its about dancing your hardest and knowing you dance your hardest that makes you a winner. Pride is much more valuable than a dollar. I hear from other older dancers every time we powwow how much my son makes them feel like dancing hard because he's out there dancing hard. Now thats pride.

Anywhoooooooo, powwows are just fun, if we keep making such a big deal about winning/contesting points or no points, etc. Then what is so fun about it? Relax, dance, have fun, eat some food (if you wanna b****, then b**** about the price of a dang piece of frybread!! LOL Or how the mutton stew has only one lil tiny piece of mutton! Oh man, how I have been robbed!!). Just Powwow to Powwow!!

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Generous_66

[quote=Nezbah]MEMEMEMEMEMEME!!!


You nailed it on the button, GE points can be difficult for some, but may help others. Dancing for the dance...and dancing your hardest...very nice.. and dang that frybread is no good for dancers, they really need to serve healthier, cheaper food...like oatmeal and potatoes etc..how they expect us to dance all weekend on frybread?....lol

Now back to GE POINTS... Bay Mills, MI had posted the point system for the dancers before the pow wow... it was close to the following:

Friday Night GE 5 Points
Friday Night Exhibition 3 Points
Sat & Sun GE 10 Points each
Sat & Sun Exhibitions 5 Points each
DANCE COMP:
1st Place - 20 Points
2nd Place - 15 Points
3rd Place - 10 Points

Now I assumed that 1st, 2nd and 3rd points are awarded for each judging session. They had given each dancer a list of rules and how the points were assessed....Now in my OPINION this point spread is really fair, but the unfairness still may, ( I stressed MAY) come from not recieving 8 points for Friday night GE, and of course the Judging bias....but that is another thread.....GE Points do reward dancers for showing friday.. and that was my question how?...as we can see region to region it varies....

Just thought I would post the numbers from BAY MILLS and am interested to see your feedback on the Bay Mills system.....

I hope I got the numbers correct....

KEEP ON POW WOW"ING

Furiously-Fancy

I know this is off the main topic here but it does relate to points and determining "winners". O.K. so............

Here's somethin that would be kinda kewl......so you generate this computer program with a hawkeye view....ok so this thing has lots of different angles to see each dancer at every angle.....with me so far??.....yeah ...even an aerial view. You could even have each dancer wear some kind of sensor/camera gadget. So then the computer will determine if the dancer is in time with the beat of the drum and if the dancer stops on time. Let's say for some categories the computer could even determine the number of dance steps/moves a dancer incorperates. And like for Grass... the computer could even determine if the dancer completed each maneuver in balance (i.e. on each side..left then right). You know there's lots of capabilities here. I'm not saying something like this would take the place of the human eye or nothing like that......but it might factor in somehow......u know???

On the flip side there have been times where I was judging and I couldn't decide between two dancers so I went on attitude and sometimes even emotion .......and you know a computer's no good in that department.

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Furiously-Fancy

[quote=Generous_66]Sounds like a decent point system. Were the points posted on the posters too?.......cuz I know some Pow-wows that don't even advertise the point system. So then you travel like a thousand miles and when you finally get there you find out you're about 200 points behind because the committee started taking points on Wed. or some ridiculous situatuion like that!!! You know this happens cuz some committees want all the homies or special invited guests to have a serious advantage. When this happens it's purdy messed up!!

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nativecoko

I totally agree! I haven't danced in three years and I still make it to every pow-wow! not that I can afford to, but I still try. I would love to dance but i lack the ability to make a darn outfit...so my daughter is going to be a baby guinea pig while i learn to sew and bead. I just love to watch and i have caught myself saying, "That person would be a good dancer if they were a better person." I try not to hear the gossip that surrounds pow-wows and look on everybody as good people and great dancers! Pow-wow's make me happy, especially after a long hard year at school!!

Generous_66

[quote=Generous_66]

The points were not on the poster, they did have the rules and point system posted around the Pow wow grounds. Each dancer/drummer that regristered was given a point system list, which I thought was really good.

someone mentioned that some pow wows post each of the dancers numbers and the points they recieved after the pow wow....now thats a good idea....

NDNQt

Giving the amount of total points isn't bad. We quit having the books open when a dancer went to a judge and started an argument because that judge didn't place the. That is where the problem lies!

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Nezbah

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