Honoring your heritage?

Dagnome · 03-31-2006, 01:05 PM

Now, I have been participating in a few discussions in th "Northern singing" forum and something someone posted really got me to thinking. This individual pointed out that one of the dancers from our drum honors is Scottish hertiage by incorperating his Kilt into his regelea. Does anyone find this awkward? Diffrent? Or is it breaking some old tradition? I dont mean to sound aggresive about this, but ive been turning this question over and over in my mind for a while now. Do you think it is wrong for people to honor their own heritage through their dancing/Regelea?

My opinion, I dont think there is anything wrong with it. I dont mean to preach here, but I dont think anyone set "rules" or "guidlines" on how to honor your heritage be it Scottish, Native, French, or German. Maybe I am wrong about this whole topic. Your thoughts and opinions are greatly appriciated about this.

Again, I am not trying to sound ignorant or anything. But I do respect everyones right to individuality.

**Wojapi4Me** · 03-31-2006, 02:02 PM

Its stupid. That's my opinion.

This is an Indian pow wow, not a highland games festival. The only way this would be cool is if some Russians started singing and they wore those huge hats while singing...now that'd be cool.

Dagnome · 03-31-2006, 03:03 PM

Some of us take the teachings gifted to us diffrent than others. If I may ask, why is it stupid?

Little Man's Ma · 03-31-2006, 03:08 PM

Well, I have often thought of this.. my great X5 grandfather was a Scottish captain on the great lakes.. and we have carried his scottish name for 7 generations.. I thought it would be kewl to incorporate the tartan into a part of my regalia, only to acknowledge this grandfather, but it would only be a design element, not a kilt or anything like that.. I even thought of using the tartan to make my son's aprons.. For me it is a way of honouring all my relatives, because I do incorporate those things that are significant to both my hubby's and my families, like our clan symbols. This is only my opinion for what it is worth lol!!

**Wojapi4Me** · 03-31-2006, 03:10 PM

Why is it stupid? Well, for one, its an Indian pow wow...should be nuff said there.

It would be inappropriate for me to wear my outfit if I were participating in a cultural event of another group such as Cinco de Mayo...look kinda strange huh? Or what about wearing my fancy outfit to an Asian Festival?

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think its stupid...and that's my simple opinion.

Little Man's Ma · 03-31-2006, 03:24 PM

I guess I agree with SingerDad... I wouldn't wear another culture's outfit to a pow wow... unless the guy normally walks around in a kilt.. that would be fine... lol

hywalker · 03-31-2006, 05:38 PM

i gotta agree, theres been enough damage to ndn culture without ppl walking away from a powwow thinking ndn's wore kilts lol. kinda falls back to the old saying , when in rome.
when i goto a powwow it is to celebrate my wifes heritage, not mine. just my opinion.

great way of saying great great great great .... grandfather (great X5 grandfather ) little mans ma, will have to remember that

sure saves on redundant typing lol

kiowakat · 03-31-2006, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dagnome

Now, I have been participating in a few discussions in th "Northern singing" forum and something someone posted really got me to thinking. This individual pointed out that one of the dancers from our drum honors is Scottish hertiage by incorperating his Kilt into his regelea. Does anyone find this awkward? Diffrent? Or is it breaking some old tradition? I dont mean to sound aggresive about this, but ive been turning this question over and over in my mind for a while now. Do you think it is wrong for people to honor their own heritage through their dancing/Regelea?

My opinion, I dont think there is anything wrong with it. I dont mean to preach here, but I dont think anyone set "rules" or "guidlines" on how to honor your heritage be it Scottish, Native, French, or German. Maybe I am wrong about this whole topic. Your thoughts and opinions are greatly appriciated about this.

Again, I am not trying to sound ignorant or anything. But I do respect everyones right to individuality.

there are rules and guidelines, that is one of the things that make up tribal culture, certain guidelines.....this means don't try to be creative stick with the tribal traditions this is what I was taught and to bring another culture into the mix is not following rules and such, all this, just is plain messed up lololol....my opinion of course

WhoMe · 03-31-2006, 06:21 PM

Dag,

Okay, I'm trying to add up all the ingredients:

One white guy,

living in New England,

learned Lakota religion,

now practices it,

sings at drum,

with guy who wears a kilt,

and calls his drum a traditional drum......

Hmmmmm?

indian-heart-beat · 04-01-2006, 05:43 PM

Dagnome,
I am white, too. I am German.
I tried to imagine...the drum...the kilt...strange.
I'm a mother of a 7 year old boy.
If I showed him a picture of your drum
with the Scotsman wearing his kilt,
he would definitely think it was a riddle and say:
This man doesn't belong to the picture.
To me as a German (with no knowledge about Indian culture)
it seems to be wrong.
If he wants to fit in,
why does he wear sth. that will catch everybody's eye?
(Just imagine playing bagpipes with the drum??? Or Bavarian yodelling??? Shimmie Shake???,...)
It would definitely disturb my sense of visual and emotional harmony.
Not an attack, I know nothing. Just my opinion.

**sokoki_wolf** · 04-01-2006, 09:19 PM

a drum with a white guy in a kilt and the word traditional dont seem to go togther in my mind.... is tossing the fry bread next?

**billyjoejimbob** · 04-01-2006, 10:06 PM

Wouldnt participating in the highland games be the BIGGEST honor for your culture?

I agree maybe a design element would suffice. My grandfathers are italian but I dont wear anything italian on my outfits because they are NDN outfits and an NDN culture. I have no NDN in me so Im not gonna twist their culture to honor my ancestors who werent NDN.....something like that.

I do keep my granfathers bombadeer wings in my beaded pouch tho.

Dagnome · 04-01-2006, 10:46 PM

First off, whome if you want to debate the way I use the word "traditional" go back to the northern singing thread, beacuse your post doesnt make much sense in this topic. I would say your just trying to drag out an argument.

Let me state that he isnt trying to "fit in". Our drum is not composed of 100% Native's. This is his way of honoring his heritage, I think that most, that have an open mind, would realize this and not criticise it so quickly. I am not saying that there are no rules and guidlines to this, no no, I do agree that there are rules and guidlines. Maybe I am being to critical, but I dont see anything wrong with him trying to honor his own heritage. People that do similar things (maybe without a kilt) are not as noticed as he, but, has anyone thought that maybe the way he choses to do it is just diffrent from the norm? People dont like change. Well, I nor he see a problem with it, we all do what we feel is right. Free-will is a gift some of us choose to practice.

I do see where you are all coming from. I wont say he isnt native at all beacuse I dont know for sure, but this is the life he has chosen. Like me, he has chosen to learn about this way of life. So, in order to dance at a powwow he needs to "dress like an native american"? Wouldnt that be like putting on a costume? Pretending to be something? My opnion, is I resepct him for doing something like this. He is showing pride in his non-native heritage publicly so people like you can criticse him for it. That may have been harsh, but I tend to say whats on my mind. I am not trying to start any arguments, or debates, I am simply saying whats on my mind and how I feel about the subject.

**sokoki_wolf** · 04-01-2006, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dagnome

First off, whome if you want to debate the way I use the word "traditional" go back to the northern singing thread, beacuse your post doesnt make much sense in this topic. I would say your just trying to drag out an argument.

Let me state that he isnt trying to "fit in". Our drum is not composed of 100% Native's. This is his way of honoring his heritage, I think that most, that have an open mind, would realize this and not criticise it so quickly. I am not saying that there are no rules and guidlines to this, no no, I do agree that there are rules and guidlines. Maybe I am being to critical, but I dont see anything wrong with him trying to honor his own heritage. People that do similar things (maybe without a kilt) are not as noticed as he, but, has anyone thought that maybe the way he choses to do it is just diffrent from the norm? People dont like change. Well, I nor he see a problem with it, we all do what we feel is right. Free-will is a gift some of us choose to practice.

then why ask what people think if you already have your mind set? you asked what people thought,we told you....

03-31-2006, 01:05 PM	#1 (permalink)
Dagnome Everything but Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: New England Posts: 14	Honoring your heritage? Now, I have been participating in a few discussions in th "Northern singing" forum and something someone posted really got me to thinking. This individual pointed out that one of the dancers from our drum honors is Scottish hertiage by incorperating his Kilt into his regelea. Does anyone find this awkward? Diffrent? Or is it breaking some old tradition? I dont mean to sound aggresive about this, but ive been turning this question over and over in my mind for a while now. Do you think it is wrong for people to honor their own heritage through their dancing/Regelea? My opinion, I dont think there is anything wrong with it. I dont mean to preach here, but I dont think anyone set "rules" or "guidlines" on how to honor your heritage be it Scottish, Native, French, or German. Maybe I am wrong about this whole topic. Your thoughts and opinions are greatly appriciated about this. Again, I am not trying to sound ignorant or anything. But I do respect everyones right to individuality.

03-31-2006, 02:02 PM	#2 (permalink)
Wojapi4Me Kili! Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Tha Rez Posts: 1,515	Its stupid. That's my opinion. This is an Indian pow wow, not a highland games festival. The only way this would be cool is if some Russians started singing and they wore those huge hats while singing...now that'd be cool. __________________ If pro is the opposite of con, then wouldn't progress be the opposite of...lol

03-31-2006, 03:10 PM	#5 (permalink)
Wojapi4Me Kili! Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Tha Rez Posts: 1,515	Why is it stupid? Well, for one, its an Indian pow wow...should be nuff said there. It would be inappropriate for me to wear my outfit if I were participating in a cultural event of another group such as Cinco de Mayo...look kinda strange huh? Or what about wearing my fancy outfit to an Asian Festival? Maybe I'm wrong, but I think its stupid...and that's my simple opinion. __________________ If pro is the opposite of con, then wouldn't progress be the opposite of...lol

03-31-2006, 05:38 PM	#7 (permalink)
hywalker Kiowakat's #1 fan Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 352	i gotta agree, theres been enough damage to ndn culture without ppl walking away from a powwow thinking ndn's wore kilts lol. kinda falls back to the old saying , when in rome. when i goto a powwow it is to celebrate my wifes heritage, not mine. just my opinion. great way of saying great great great great .... grandfather (great X5 grandfather ) little mans ma, will have to remember that sure saves on redundant typing lol __________________ Please visit http://www.kiowakat.com/ "The truth shall set you free, but first it's gonna piss you off a whole lot". Last edited by hywalker; 03-31-2006 at 05:40 PM.

04-01-2006, 09:19 PM	#11 (permalink)
sokoki_wolf Beadworker Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,398	a drum with a white guy in a kilt and the word traditional dont seem to go togther in my mind.... is tossing the fry bread next? __________________ TRUDELL FOR PRESIDENT (and no,this isnt zeek)

03-31-2006, 03:03 PM	#3 (permalink)
Dagnome Everything but Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: New England Posts: 14	Some of us take the teachings gifted to us diffrent than others. If I may ask, why is it stupid?

03-31-2006, 03:08 PM	#4 (permalink)
Little Man's Ma Tim Horton's Addict Join Date: May 2003 Location: On the shore of Lake Huron Posts: 377	Well, I have often thought of this.. my great X5 grandfather was a Scottish captain on the great lakes.. and we have carried his scottish name for 7 generations.. I thought it would be kewl to incorporate the tartan into a part of my regalia, only to acknowledge this grandfather, but it would only be a design element, not a kilt or anything like that.. I even thought of using the tartan to make my son's aprons.. For me it is a way of honouring all my relatives, because I do incorporate those things that are significant to both my hubby's and my families, like our clan symbols. This is only my opinion for what it is worth lol!!

03-31-2006, 03:24 PM	#6 (permalink)
Little Man's Ma Tim Horton's Addict Join Date: May 2003 Location: On the shore of Lake Huron Posts: 377	I guess I agree with SingerDad... I wouldn't wear another culture's outfit to a pow wow... unless the guy normally walks around in a kilt.. that would be fine... lol

03-31-2006, 06:21 PM	#9 (permalink)
WhoMe PauWau Coordinator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Land of 370 Broken Treaties Posts: 5,559	Dag, Okay, I'm trying to add up all the ingredients: One white guy, living in New England, learned Lakota religion, now practices it, sings at drum, with guy who wears a kilt, and calls his drum a traditional drum...... Hmmmmm?

04-01-2006, 05:43 PM	#10 (permalink)
indian-heart-beat Banned Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Porta Westfalica Posts: 12,640	Dagnome, I am white, too. I am German. I tried to imagine...the drum...the kilt...strange. I'm a mother of a 7 year old boy. If I showed him a picture of your drum with the Scotsman wearing his kilt, he would definitely think it was a riddle and say: This man doesn't belong to the picture. To me as a German (with no knowledge about Indian culture) it seems to be wrong. If he wants to fit in, why does he wear sth. that will catch everybody's eye? (Just imagine playing bagpipes with the drum??? Or Bavarian yodelling??? Shimmie Shake???,...) It would definitely disturb my sense of visual and emotional harmony. Not an attack, I know nothing. Just my opinion.

04-01-2006, 10:06 PM	#12 (permalink)
billyjoejimbob Fat Singer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: white guy land Posts: 1,526	Wouldnt participating in the highland games be the BIGGEST honor for your culture? I agree maybe a design element would suffice. My grandfathers are italian but I dont wear anything italian on my outfits because they are NDN outfits and an NDN culture. I have no NDN in me so Im not gonna twist their culture to honor my ancestors who werent NDN.....something like that. I do keep my granfathers bombadeer wings in my beaded pouch tho.

04-01-2006, 10:46 PM	#13 (permalink)
Dagnome Everything but Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: New England Posts: 14	First off, whome if you want to debate the way I use the word "traditional" go back to the northern singing thread, beacuse your post doesnt make much sense in this topic. I would say your just trying to drag out an argument. Let me state that he isnt trying to "fit in". Our drum is not composed of 100% Native's. This is his way of honoring his heritage, I think that most, that have an open mind, would realize this and not criticise it so quickly. I am not saying that there are no rules and guidlines to this, no no, I do agree that there are rules and guidlines. Maybe I am being to critical, but I dont see anything wrong with him trying to honor his own heritage. People that do similar things (maybe without a kilt) are not as noticed as he, but, has anyone thought that maybe the way he choses to do it is just diffrent from the norm? People dont like change. Well, I nor he see a problem with it, we all do what we feel is right. Free-will is a gift some of us choose to practice. I do see where you are all coming from. I wont say he isnt native at all beacuse I dont know for sure, but this is the life he has chosen. Like me, he has chosen to learn about this way of life. So, in order to dance at a powwow he needs to "dress like an native american"? Wouldnt that be like putting on a costume? Pretending to be something? My opnion, is I resepct him for doing something like this. He is showing pride in his non-native heritage publicly so people like you can criticse him for it. That may have been harsh, but I tend to say whats on my mind. I am not trying to start any arguments, or debates, I am simply saying whats on my mind and how I feel about the subject. Last edited by Dagnome; 04-01-2006 at 10:50 PM.

04-01-2006, 11:48 PM	#15 (permalink)
kiowakat Banned Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: St.Louis Posts: 1,243