Singer etiquette

swbreez · 03-25-2006, 02:22 AM

I have noticed the manners of singers for awhile. The thing that stands out the most is when singers practice singing during a prayer. This seems disrespectful. I was wondering why it is that singers don't stand during specials/honor songs or when the eagle staff is danced by. The only place I have ever seen singers stand during the flag song is at the Omaha Tribal Pow-wow where the singers stand and sing the flag song without the drum. I know that there are alot of people in general that do not stand to honor and talk during prayer, even dancers that are in the arena do this. I am inquiring about singers hoping to get a reply as to your thoughts.

**billyjoejimbob** · 03-25-2006, 09:53 PM

Some stand and some dont during flag and vet songs.

It has nothing to do with being disrespectful to either. They are just respecting their drum also.

Its the ones who crack up and laugh and practice during these events that is wrong.

What drives me nuts is when someone on the drum I am singing with messes around, hitting the drum and practicing when another drum is singing.

Many think they have a special pass because they are needed at the powwow.

Hank_Shelton · 03-25-2006, 11:25 PM

Singer etiquette... hmmm. Isn't that an oxymoron? Ha! Just kidding. It's annoying sometimes when they don't keep their practicing inconspicuous and do it for all around them to hear. To stand or not: it doesn't bother me if they do or don't. Just as long as common sense is used in being respectful, quiet when appropriate, drinks/ high inconspicuous, etc. Again, kidding on the latter. Anyway just my measely opinions on the matter. Oh yeah, and Best Dressed contests are stupid!

LSS · 03-25-2006, 11:32 PM

This is a good question and a good reply. I think it would be interesting for others to post their "two cents worth" on this subject.

Hank,
I think you may also want to search the forum here, or even in the Singing Forums, for similar post. This is something that has raised a lot questions amongst the general "Pow Wow Public/Participants".

LSS

Sakaway · 03-27-2006, 04:03 AM

During grand entry is a time when there is not much for drums to do that aren't involved in singing the grand entry. So what do you do? You sit around your drum or else you walk around or whatever........you do something. I know singers don't mean any disrespect by not standing for the eagle staffs or flag songs and sometimes even during invocations. It's just that it's a lot of time without having much to do. Having said that, there are times when guys start showing the rest of the drum new songs they might have composed. So everyone starts trying to learn the new tune......that's a possibility. I know it's been like that for us. There are many things singers do at the drum and away from it during these previously mentioned situations.

Who honestly listens to every word said by the emcee's throughout the entire pow wow? There are times singers don't realize what's going on and appear to act in a disrespectful manner. I'm not making excuses, but as as singer myself, I know that you don't realize where the pow wow is in the schedule and you happen to be laughing during an invocation or even singing during a time you shouldn't, as deemed by other individuals.

I feel if one is an actual singer at a drum during these times, they might understand why singers do those things. Like I said, it's no disrespect to anyone or anything. You just happen to be oblivious to things around you. It happens everywhere. I'm sure it always will happen. But I know it doesn't happen by choice. I'm saying this speaking for myself and not for all drums. I'm in no position to speak in that manner. I won't even speak on behalf of the drum I sing with either because everyone might not have the same reason. But this is just from my perspective....not that it means anything.

suthernwaterbird · 03-27-2006, 11:55 AM

I know it! I guess you would have to be a singer to understand. But in no way am I complaining.

DANCINGEAGLE · 03-27-2006, 01:39 PM

I have always been taught that you never practice when another drum is singing, but if you do, you are to keep your singing down low. Also, when it comes to honor songs, you are to stand or remove yourself from the drum and stand at the back of the drum arbor. Just somethings that I was taught.

ABdrum · 03-27-2006, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billyjoejimbob

What drives me nuts is when someone on the drum I am singing with messes around, hitting the drum and practicing when another drum is singing.

This is true....I've sang with drum groups that did this and it really bothered me when they did this. I stress this to my own drum group not to do this during the grand entries, flag song or when someone is speaking. There is a time to hit the drum and that's when your group is singing.

**billyjoejimbob** · 03-27-2006, 05:07 PM

Im a little bothered by what Sakaway has brought up.

"If you dont know where in the schedule you are and are cracking up during the invocation"....how shortminded does someone have to be that you loose tract of things after 3 songs? Whether you are 1 of 40 drums or 1 of 3 drums at a powwow, you should AT LEAST pay attention until after the GE, VET, FLAG and INVOCATION finish.

As far as who listens to everything the MC says.....a head singer should! and also keep his guys in line. How bad will you look when the MC is calling for your drum and you guys are sitting there screwing around and not listening.

As a singer, I understand about lulls in the programs, but it still bothers me to see singers cracking up when they shouldnt be.

KRZYcheyNDN · 03-28-2006, 02:47 AM

very inetersting topic. i'm going to wait and see what others have to say before i respond.

**billyjoejimbob** · 03-28-2006, 04:48 PM

Get a set!

Wakalapi · 03-29-2006, 06:15 AM

I lead a youth drum with boys 13 and under. Most of my singers are around 9 to 11 years old and have been singing for only a few months. Getting them all to sit quietly around the drum with continual urges to pound on it out of sheer boredom is sometimes nearly impossible. Some of the boys have been dancing all their lives and know what the powwow is all about. Others have not, and their powwow experience has mainly been getting dumped off by their parents to run around and play all day. We practice once a week, and I have excellent support from parents, uncles & aunties, and grandparents.

I try to teach and continually remind the boys:
+ not to hit the drum when we are not singing
+ not to eat or drink near the drum because it can make a mess
+ if practicing a song at a powwow, be as quiet as possible out of respect to the other drums and anything else that is going on
+ remove hats (other than regalia-related head coverings) while at the drum
+ no laughing around or playing during prayers or when an elder is speaking
+ respect the drum, respect the drumsticks, and respect the area around the drum as something sacred and important
+ listen to the MC and keep track of when our turn is coming up next
+ track which dance categories have gone, what order they have been in, but always be ready to sing any kind of song we are asked for

Sometimes they see other drums that do not follow this way. I tell them different drums sometimes come from different tribes and follow different traditions; some people and groups are really strict and others are not at all. We have no right to judge others by the way we see them around their drum. But I must still follow the way I was taught, and I expect the boys on my drum to do the same.

LSS · 03-29-2006, 09:09 AM

Lets also be mindful of the fact that there are subtle differences between Northern Drums and Southern Drums.

swbreez · 03-29-2006, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wakalapi

I lead a youth drum with boys 13 and under. Most of my singers are around 9 to 11 years old and have been singing for only a few months. Getting them all to sit quietly around the drum with continual urges to pound on it out of sheer boredom is sometimes nearly impossible. Some of the boys have been dancing all their lives and know what the powwow is all about. Others have not, and their powwow experience has mainly been getting dumped off by their parents to run around and play all day. We practice once a week, and I have excellent support from parents, uncles & aunties, and grandparents.

I try to teach and continually remind the boys:
+ not to hit the drum when we are not singing
+ not to eat or drink near the drum because it can make a mess
+ if practicing a song at a powwow, be as quiet as possible out of respect to the other drums and anything else that is going on
+ remove hats (other than regalia-related head coverings) while at the drum
+ no laughing around or playing during prayers or when an elder is speaking
+ respect the drum, respect the drumsticks, and respect the area around the drum as something sacred and important
+ listen to the MC and keep track of when our turn is coming up next
+ track which dance categories have gone, what order they have been in, but always be ready to sing any kind of song we are asked for

Sometimes they see other drums that do not follow this way. I tell them different drums sometimes come from different tribes and follow different traditions; some people and groups are really strict and others are not at all. We have no right to judge others by the way we see them around their drum. But I must still follow the way I was taught, and I expect the boys on my drum to do the same.

03-25-2006, 02:22 AM	#1 (permalink)
swbreez swbreez Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: on earth Posts: 73	Singer etiquette I have noticed the manners of singers for awhile. The thing that stands out the most is when singers practice singing during a prayer. This seems disrespectful. I was wondering why it is that singers don't stand during specials/honor songs or when the eagle staff is danced by. The only place I have ever seen singers stand during the flag song is at the Omaha Tribal Pow-wow where the singers stand and sing the flag song without the drum. I know that there are alot of people in general that do not stand to honor and talk during prayer, even dancers that are in the arena do this. I am inquiring about singers hoping to get a reply as to your thoughts.

03-25-2006, 11:25 PM	#3 (permalink)
Hank_Shelton Tiny Tot Dancer Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 94	Singer etiquette... hmmm. Isn't that an oxymoron? Ha! Just kidding. It's annoying sometimes when they don't keep their practicing inconspicuous and do it for all around them to hear. To stand or not: it doesn't bother me if they do or don't. Just as long as common sense is used in being respectful, quiet when appropriate, drinks/ high inconspicuous, etc. Again, kidding on the latter. Anyway just my measely opinions on the matter. Oh yeah, and Best Dressed contests are stupid! Last edited by Hank_Shelton; 03-25-2006 at 11:46 PM.

03-25-2006, 11:32 PM	#4 (permalink)
LSS Sappling! Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 871	This is a good question and a good reply. I think it would be interesting for others to post their "two cents worth" on this subject. Hank, I think you may also want to search the forum here, or even in the Singing Forums, for similar post. This is something that has raised a lot questions amongst the general "Pow Wow Public/Participants". LSS __________________ To get a true picture of your purpose in life, you only get the whole picture when you listen with your mind, your ears and your heart. This way The Creator has a direct connection with you and only you...no outside interference. When you follow the will of IT that created you, understanding that your purpose is not for you...but for IT and all that IT has created, there can be no wrong except failure to be obedient. Only then do we jeopardize the gifts we are given. Its not the final destination that defines us, rather the journey taken!

03-27-2006, 04:03 AM	#5 (permalink)
Sakaway Junior Dancer Join Date: May 2002 Location: Here and there Posts: 157	no disrespect During grand entry is a time when there is not much for drums to do that aren't involved in singing the grand entry. So what do you do? You sit around your drum or else you walk around or whatever........you do something. I know singers don't mean any disrespect by not standing for the eagle staffs or flag songs and sometimes even during invocations. It's just that it's a lot of time without having much to do. Having said that, there are times when guys start showing the rest of the drum new songs they might have composed. So everyone starts trying to learn the new tune......that's a possibility. I know it's been like that for us. There are many things singers do at the drum and away from it during these previously mentioned situations. Who honestly listens to every word said by the emcee's throughout the entire pow wow? There are times singers don't realize what's going on and appear to act in a disrespectful manner. I'm not making excuses, but as as singer myself, I know that you don't realize where the pow wow is in the schedule and you happen to be laughing during an invocation or even singing during a time you shouldn't, as deemed by other individuals. I feel if one is an actual singer at a drum during these times, they might understand why singers do those things. Like I said, it's no disrespect to anyone or anything. You just happen to be oblivious to things around you. It happens everywhere. I'm sure it always will happen. But I know it doesn't happen by choice. I'm saying this speaking for myself and not for all drums. I'm in no position to speak in that manner. I won't even speak on behalf of the drum I sing with either because everyone might not have the same reason. But this is just from my perspective....not that it means anything. __________________ The shortest distance between two points is a straight line......in the opposite direction.

03-27-2006, 11:55 AM	#6 (permalink)
suthernwaterbird nobody Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: atl, ga Posts: 1,004	I know it! I guess you would have to be a singer to understand. But in no way am I complaining. __________________ WhY yOu AsK? bEcUz We CaN!

03-25-2006, 09:53 PM	#2 (permalink)
billyjoejimbob Fat Singer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: white guy land Posts: 1,526	Some stand and some dont during flag and vet songs. It has nothing to do with being disrespectful to either. They are just respecting their drum also. Its the ones who crack up and laugh and practice during these events that is wrong. What drives me nuts is when someone on the drum I am singing with messes around, hitting the drum and practicing when another drum is singing. Many think they have a special pass because they are needed at the powwow.

03-27-2006, 01:39 PM	#7 (permalink)
DANCINGEAGLE BikerBoyNDNStyle Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Where the rubber meets the road! Posts: 693	I have always been taught that you never practice when another drum is singing, but if you do, you are to keep your singing down low. Also, when it comes to honor songs, you are to stand or remove yourself from the drum and stand at the back of the drum arbor. Just somethings that I was taught. __________________ Through the good times and bad times, always pray.

03-27-2006, 05:07 PM	#9 (permalink)
billyjoejimbob Fat Singer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: white guy land Posts: 1,526	Im a little bothered by what Sakaway has brought up. "If you dont know where in the schedule you are and are cracking up during the invocation"....how shortminded does someone have to be that you loose tract of things after 3 songs? Whether you are 1 of 40 drums or 1 of 3 drums at a powwow, you should AT LEAST pay attention until after the GE, VET, FLAG and INVOCATION finish. As far as who listens to everything the MC says.....a head singer should! and also keep his guys in line. How bad will you look when the MC is calling for your drum and you guys are sitting there screwing around and not listening. As a singer, I understand about lulls in the programs, but it still bothers me to see singers cracking up when they shouldnt be.

03-28-2006, 02:47 AM	#10 (permalink)
KRZYcheyNDN Champion Dancer Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,006	very inetersting topic. i'm going to wait and see what others have to say before i respond.

03-28-2006, 04:48 PM	#11 (permalink)
billyjoejimbob Fat Singer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: white guy land Posts: 1,526	Get a set!

03-29-2006, 06:15 AM	#12 (permalink)
Wakalapi www.wakalapi.com Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: East of the Mountains Posts: 1,282	I lead a youth drum with boys 13 and under. Most of my singers are around 9 to 11 years old and have been singing for only a few months. Getting them all to sit quietly around the drum with continual urges to pound on it out of sheer boredom is sometimes nearly impossible. Some of the boys have been dancing all their lives and know what the powwow is all about. Others have not, and their powwow experience has mainly been getting dumped off by their parents to run around and play all day. We practice once a week, and I have excellent support from parents, uncles & aunties, and grandparents. I try to teach and continually remind the boys: + not to hit the drum when we are not singing + not to eat or drink near the drum because it can make a mess + if practicing a song at a powwow, be as quiet as possible out of respect to the other drums and anything else that is going on + remove hats (other than regalia-related head coverings) while at the drum + no laughing around or playing during prayers or when an elder is speaking + respect the drum, respect the drumsticks, and respect the area around the drum as something sacred and important + listen to the MC and keep track of when our turn is coming up next + track which dance categories have gone, what order they have been in, but always be ready to sing any kind of song we are asked for Sometimes they see other drums that do not follow this way. I tell them different drums sometimes come from different tribes and follow different traditions; some people and groups are really strict and others are not at all. We have no right to judge others by the way we see them around their drum. But I must still follow the way I was taught, and I expect the boys on my drum to do the same. __________________ "Friends don't let friends drink decaf..." Relaunched Nov 1, 2008. Completely rebuilt and easier to use than ever. Last edited by Wakalapi; 03-29-2006 at 06:17 AM.

03-29-2006, 09:09 AM	#13 (permalink)
LSS Sappling! Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 871	Differences!!!!! Lets also be mindful of the fact that there are subtle differences between Northern Drums and Southern Drums. __________________ To get a true picture of your purpose in life, you only get the whole picture when you listen with your mind, your ears and your heart. This way The Creator has a direct connection with you and only you...no outside interference. When you follow the will of IT that created you, understanding that your purpose is not for you...but for IT and all that IT has created, there can be no wrong except failure to be obedient. Only then do we jeopardize the gifts we are given. Its not the final destination that defines us, rather the journey taken!