Emmy

the events of the past month have gotten me thinking.

in another thread we were talking about people wearing dresses they shouldnt be.

and even once at a powwow i saw a lady wearing a sister in laws beadwork. she told me it was hers and her daughter beaded it, even though it had the initials of my sis in law. well i had my hubby call and ask her about her beadwork, she said it sounded like hers so we took a pic and of course it was hers.

n e ways on to my point. what do u do. do u confront the people, ask them?

where does flattery end and theft begin?

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Oh yeah, I used to know Quentin...He's a real...He's a real Jerky

~Flat Beat~

billyjoejimbob

Im not knowledgeable about elk tooth dresses, but Im guessing the woman wearing the red one at carlisle you are talking about. she is a friend of mine and has been out to crow fair with it. they became friends with an influential family in crow land. They havent said anything about it.

and for your in laws beadwork...was it stolen from her? if so, i would have made friends with the person and found out where she got it.

or was she just stupid enough to use the bead pattern WITH the initials?

Emmy

well she said she made it, but my sis in law says she didnt sell it to any1, but its been missing for a while... so either the lady made it with the intitals or she bought it most likely off ebay.

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Oh yeah, I used to know Quentin...He's a real...He's a real Jerky

~Flat Beat~

buckskin pantyhose

BillyJoeJimBob is right, there are a lot of people that have been adopted by Crow families. We honor them & welcome them into our families by gifting them w/an outfit, blankets, horses, tipi's etc. There are also a lot of hobbiest that have taken a liking to the Crow style, who have replicated our outfits & wear them at their own powwows. I've noticed this a lot out here on the east coast.
I had a hard time w/that at first because it didnt seem right, but at the same time they weren't being disrespectful in how they wore it. If they were out there "actin a fool" then i probably would've approached them & questioned their intentions.
At the same time, i've noticed a lot of natives wearing outfits that aren't of their own tribes, like northern women choosing to wear southern style outfits, or men wearing Chicken dance outfits that weren't from the north west, etc. And i'm sure this stems from the dance styles becoming more & more popular in Contest powwows.

We also gotta keep in mind that many people pawn their outfits w/the intent to get em out but lose them somewhere down the line because they couldn't pay to get em out. Sadly they become property of the shop & are sold to whom ever will PAY for them. I've seen a lot of outfits go "missing" this way & turn up on other dancers....

It's tuff not to call out someones race as well...THere's a lot to be said about this lil subject....i dont think we should go as far as calling out someones race & saying they're inapproriate, for all we know they could be 1/2 breeds & i'm SURE none of "US" would like to be called out....or questioned of our ndn-ness....

Like that one guy that dances fancy & charges a $1 to take a pix of him....he didnt really "look" ndn but who am i to card him? i'll leave that up to the powwow folks.

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*BE EASY*

Mato Winyan

I have to admit we are hearing a lot more about theft in recent years. Guess what people could do to help protect themselves from both sides is to have photos taken of their stuff and with them in it..... carry those with them. And if you buy a outfit from e bay print off the page and carry that with you. Never know when someone might say something.

I was at a powwow years ago when a fancy feather guy sold his outfit at a midnight auction to get gas money to go home on. Really nice one too....... so you never really know the story behind the story unless it is in a public setting like that.

Really sad when you think about it.

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"We see it as a desecration not only of a mountain but of our way of life. This is a genocidal issue to us. If they kill this mountain, they kill our way of life." ~Debra White Plume

chazziff

i think twice about buying items from pawn shop now - i seen where boyfriends who've pawned their soon to be ex-girlfriends' beadwork just to be spiteful (i guess) and seen other ppl wearing it. the girlfriend didn't report it lost/stolen or anything.

my own mother's items have ended up in the pawnshop - the mother of my neice's friend pawned it. and now that pawn shop doesn't accept beadwork on pawn cuz that woman swore up and down that it was her's.

my own niece's beadwork have ended up in the pawn shop - not sure what was goin on in my sis' life or my ex-sisterinlaw's life - but my mom's gotten it out and my brother. and she keeps it now at her house and my brother got my other sister to keep it and when my brother's daughter wants to dance now - she has to be with one of us or my mom. sign out and in style .. lol.

my own daughter's beadwork was stolen by my sister's boyfriend from my sister who was fillin in the background for me. she told me that it was burnt in a fire by accident - i didn't believe her at the time and just asked what pawn shop it was in. she said it wasn't in a pawn shop. then a woman (who is a well known native canadian actress) stole it from him and pawned it. now a lil girl in the hobbema area has it.

yea take pictures of yourself and if you are buying beadwork buy it from someone you really know and ask around if you're not sure ... someone out there is bound to recognize it ...

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sltate

This is a pretty common event nowadays, sad to say....I had given a ribbonwork set away when my dad passed away,and one of my relatives seen it in a pawn shop in Shawnee...talk about upset. When my mom and i went to get it out, it was gone. I haven't seen it anywhere, and I didn't question the receiver of the gift simply for the fact that I had given it of my own choice and they had decided to pawn it for whatever reasons they may have had. It was upsetting and hurtful, but sometimes what we value, someone else may not.
I have also had beadwork stolen from me and saw it someone else. I asked them where they bought this piece and they told me and I relayed that it had been stolen and I showed them the rest of the set and offered to buy it from them. This lady took it off and gave it to me.I was about to cry because it was a piece made by a relative who is now blind, so it had emotional ties. Needless to say, I found out who stole it and that is another story...LOL
So, these things happen, it's all about respect. Not everyone respects regalia items or their value to the owner.

chazziff

i've confronted ppl who've had on my daughter's regalia items - my second daughter lost her barrette during afternoon session and we looked for it (lost and found, looked around our chairs).

and after grand entry my sister saw a grown woman wearing it and she told me her grandmother made it when i asked for it back. i was like cool your grandma is amazing - to make a barrette that matched my daughter's regalia EXACTLY. she was shamed out when i showed her my daughter and said her friend found it on the ground and gave it to her ... dumb azz!!

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billyjoejimbob

SLTATE - If ribbonwork ends up in a pawn shop in OKLA, guaranteed a white guy has it! I know a bunch of white straight dancers and many of them arent to CRAFTWORTHY if ya know what i mean. Yeah, they can make leggings and such, but the ribbonwork comes from other places. Its hard to make so they would rather not invest the time, just the money. I only know 2 or 3 non-NDN people who do ribbonwork.

Shoot, my set is off the net, and my wives shawls too. But now I am taking the time to make our own stuff. It is more fulfilling to see my wife wearing MY stuff.

As far as giving away stuff...I was told that you give it away,and that person can do what they want with it, sell it, give it away again, etc. Its the act of 'giving away' that is special. Unless someone wanted you to make them something and than they sold it. Thats effed up.

If I make someone something, I make it to match what they have already (so they cant sell it!)

A few years ago a friend got a set of straight clothes off ebay which everyone thinks is a Georgann Robinson set. It is REALLY nice.

sltate

Yeah, well live and learn. LOL Yeah, ribbonwork is hard to make, I can't do it personally, my grandma's and aunties make most of my stuff. One of our friends, who is not NDN, made alot of my stuff too, she can really sew the ribbonwork, but won't sew for non-NDNs.
My ribbonwork is my own, a design given to me by my grandmother when I ran for tribal princess. So, that design was pretty special to me. But once I lost my dad, and gave my dresses away, that design pretty much traveled everywhere and since I gave it away, I can't complain when it is duplicated. LOL I have several designs my grandmother left me when she passed away. Her designs were in McCall's, RedBook, and Cosmo back in the day. She did her own style show in NYC. She made ribbonwork the old way, no stitchwitchery. LOL So, I am thinking of just changing designs, but mine has been mine so long, I am not that eager to put it away.

kiyaanii mom

People always say you can get good beadwork at a pawn shop, but now I'll think twice about ever buying it.

SLTATE - I'm glad you got your beadword back. That was nice of the lady to give it back.

chazziff

in regards to the first question - where does flattery end and theft begin?

why would someone WANT beadwork/regalia that looks exactly like someone else's?!? there are some ppl round these parts who have beadwork that looks exactly alike!! different families - same colors/designs. its red background with yellow triangle border with black, white, yellow designs. i personally think its weird. why? why?

i've had this one woman watch my daughters for "tips" on her own children's regalia - i totally thought this was creepy cuz i was unaware that it was happening at the time. that is until a couple ppl had noticed that she would sit right behind us at pws and just stare and told me. just creeped me out!! then i tried to move everytime i saw her and what ya know - right after supperbreak there she was right behind us!! then the next weekend she would try her hand at something she was studying off my girls on her girls.

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billyjoejimbob

When it comes to basic designs and colors, it is possible to 2 designs to resemble eachother eventually.

That is one problem I have, designing. Its hard for me to get tons of colors into a design and have it look good so I end up with basic designs and colors.

I usually have to see other peoples stuff to get ideas and I try to stay away from copying. Sometimes I see a color pattern that I like in one section of a design, sometimes I see an idea of how to put 2 shapes together. But it is never a copy.

Sometimes I see someones basic design and elaborate on it. By the time Im done with my design it is totally different than the other persons.

As far as other poeples designs, I bought a new set of hairties and necklace for my wife, brand new. I made all the othewr beadwork to match. Is that stealing? Considering the person sold their stuff.

ma-heench