Need advice on important issue

morningrain · 02-07-2006, 10:19 AM

**sokoki_wolf** · 02-07-2006, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by morningrain

The Regional Native Community needs advice on a situation we are encountering with a drum group. We agreed to have them as host drum but because of our finances and their unreasonable demands for other things besides the amount agreed upon; our council of elders contacted another group who agreed to play for blanket money. Now I do not have in my files the contract with the other group even though they say that they have one. I did send them one but they never signed it and sent it back to me. Now my question is - since it is nearly 3 months until our pow wow - did I give them enough notice that we had to use someone else? And would I still be required to pay them even though I do not have their signed contract on file?

Please help - we are a new small group and do not want any bad blood to go out because of this. They knew how our budget was and now they are wanting to spread bad words about us because we can't meet their demands.

were their demands made before or after the deal was made?

**Wojapi4Me** · 02-07-2006, 10:48 AM

This doesn't make any sense. What were the terms in the contract you sent to these guys? I'm assuming (possibly incorrectly) that payment was outlined in the contract as well as other amenities (travel, food, and lodging)...so what's the problem? Did you not have the money to cover what you promised originally in the contract you sent?

Sounds to me like you guys got cheap and found a group that will come "play" LOL for nothing...

morningrain · 02-07-2006, 11:04 AM

**Wojapi4Me** · 02-07-2006, 11:32 AM

You're still sidestepping the question...what was in the original contract that you sent the group? It doesn't matter what they were trying to re-negotiate for. It only matters what you specified in the contract you sent to them. Also, was there a signing date specified? And, did this contract have to be notarized and returned to you by a certain date? If not, you guys opened yourselves up to a lot of legal difficulties. If there wasn't a date specified for signing and a manner specified in which it was returned to you, they could sign it anytime and it will be valid as long as they perform the services outlined in the contract.

morningrain · 02-07-2006, 11:46 AM

**Wojapi4Me** · 02-07-2006, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by morningrain

No, the contract did not have to be notarized and there was no date set for it to be returned. They had me send them new paperwork each time they changed the demands. There was a date on there for the pow wow but that is all. I am new to this and was not sure how to go about the contract thing. I think they are just being difficult because they knew up front our budget and they continued to request more and more each time.

Well, you're learning the hard way...don't draw up contracts unless you know what you're doing or have an attorney do it for you. The first time they tried to "re-negotiate" and it was more than you guys could afford, why did you keep this up of sending them new paperwork? You had your opportunity to end it there and move on. Now, there's this "contract" out there which you still haven't said what it stipulates...does it spell out that X-drum will be X-$$ or what? Confusing.

morningrain · 02-07-2006, 12:31 PM

lostsalt · 02-07-2006, 12:44 PM

How many contracts have you sent them?
I'm afraid if you sent them a revised version of the original each time, you may have a real issue. Did you sign any of the contracts when you sent them?

You may be able to negotiate a cancelation with some kind of compensation for the drum now well before the powwow. Especially since you have a drum now for only the blanket only. you can afford to pay the first drum something for their trouble, and they can still fill that date.
P.S. Singerdad's advise/responses are gonna be the most knowledgable of most you'll get anywhere, experience. Plus its free.
Good luck
Peace
Lostsalt

morningrain · 02-07-2006, 01:32 PM

**Wojapi4Me** · 02-07-2006, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by morningrain

Thank you all for your replies. Our Chief has decided that we will honor their contract but will not do business with them in the future. They are the ones who are not trust worthy by the way they continued to change their demands and said they would put bad words out against us if we did not meet the contract. It is settled.

Well, glad its settled, but I don't see why you would want these guys at your pow wow when there is obviously bad blood between you now. In the future, when you guys send out contracts you really should specify the following:
1) what services you require - give dates and times
2) what compensation you will provide - and be specific about dollar amounts, numbers of hotels, gas money amounts, etc.
3) give a date for them to sign it, NOTARIZE IT, and mail it back to you...make sure the contract is null and void if not signed and notarized by that date

Your pow wow committee should really set a budget before you start and make it slightly flexible to deal with different groups and their traveling expenses.

I started singing in a day and age when a man's word was good enough. You get asked to sing or bring a group of guys to come to a celebration and sing, you go there and sing...but times change. I still remember when a group I was singing with had to sign a contract for host drum. This was back in the early 90s, and we didn't know what to do...hadn't ever heard of anyone signing contracts for pow wows. But, nowadays its commonplace and pow wow committee people should really consult attorneys or be versed in contract law before sending them out.

Also, not to be mean or put anyone down, but this is how I feel....this is a prime example of why non-powwow people shouldn't put on pow wows.

ajibik · 02-08-2006, 03:29 PM

Your "chief?"

**billyjoejimbob** · 02-08-2006, 04:32 PM

if they never signed a contract, scru them.

like to know who they are tho. can think of a few.

morningrain · 02-09-2006, 06:35 PM

lostsalt · 02-09-2006, 07:06 PM

Who elected the Council of Elders?, Is this a branch of the Eastern Band outta Carolina, Or from the Western Groups in OK. I wasn't aware of any other groups?
No disrespect, A chief is not an Ordinary , Arbitrary title. When I think of Chiefs when it comes to the Cherokee people I think of Wilma Mankiller, etc.
I'm concerned because, If you mention on this site a "chief of a tribe", More than likely everyone here would know exactly who you're talking about. It is a small Country, This site frequented by many Bloods, Wannabes, Observers, Decendents and everybody else.
Your thread sparked another thread that is very topical. Some people take offense @ the appointing and psuedo-ness of groups not tribes assigning themselves a chief.
This hurts the crediabilty of the true "chiefs" out there making desicions effecting hundreds/thousands of lives.
We all have our proper place. One should never force themselves into a place not proper for them.

Peace
Lostsalt

**Wojapi4Me** · 02-10-2006, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lostsalt

Who elected the Council of Elders?, Is this a branch of the Eastern Band outta Carolina, Or from the Western Groups in OK. I wasn't aware of any other groups?

There is no branch of the Eastern Band or the Cherokee Nation. They are separate sovereign tribes. This group being discussed is just like the others we're discussing in the fake Cherokee tribes thread.

Please stop exploiting the Cherokee people!! They don't deserve this!! And using the term Chief when you aren't is HIGHLY offen

02-07-2006, 10:19 AM	#1 (permalink)
morningrain Pow Wow Visitor Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 8	Last edited by morningrain; 02-23-2006 at 01:58 PM.

02-07-2006, 10:48 AM	#3 (permalink)
Wojapi4Me Kili! Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Tha Rez Posts: 1,515	This doesn't make any sense. What were the terms in the contract you sent to these guys? I'm assuming (possibly incorrectly) that payment was outlined in the contract as well as other amenities (travel, food, and lodging)...so what's the problem? Did you not have the money to cover what you promised originally in the contract you sent? Sounds to me like you guys got cheap and found a group that will come "play" LOL for nothing... __________________ If pro is the opposite of con, then wouldn't progress be the opposite of...lol

02-07-2006, 11:04 AM	#4 (permalink)
morningrain Pow Wow Visitor Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 8	Last edited by morningrain; 02-23-2006 at 01:49 PM.

02-07-2006, 11:32 AM	#5 (permalink)
Wojapi4Me Kili! Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Tha Rez Posts: 1,515	You're still sidestepping the question...what was in the original contract that you sent the group? It doesn't matter what they were trying to re-negotiate for. It only matters what you specified in the contract you sent to them. Also, was there a signing date specified? And, did this contract have to be notarized and returned to you by a certain date? If not, you guys opened yourselves up to a lot of legal difficulties. If there wasn't a date specified for signing and a manner specified in which it was returned to you, they could sign it anytime and it will be valid as long as they perform the services outlined in the contract. __________________ If pro is the opposite of con, then wouldn't progress be the opposite of...lol

02-07-2006, 11:46 AM	#6 (permalink)
morningrain Pow Wow Visitor Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 8	Last edited by morningrain; 02-23-2006 at 01:50 PM.

02-07-2006, 12:31 PM	#8 (permalink)
morningrain Pow Wow Visitor Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 8	Last edited by morningrain; 02-23-2006 at 01:51 PM.

02-07-2006, 12:44 PM	#9 (permalink)
lostsalt One more push-up,Please! Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: where the missouri & kaw rivers meet Posts: 319	How many contracts have you sent them? I'm afraid if you sent them a revised version of the original each time, you may have a real issue. Did you sign any of the contracts when you sent them? You may be able to negotiate a cancelation with some kind of compensation for the drum now well before the powwow. Especially since you have a drum now for only the blanket only. you can afford to pay the first drum something for their trouble, and they can still fill that date. P.S. Singerdad's advise/responses are gonna be the most knowledgable of most you'll get anywhere, experience. Plus its free. Good luck Peace Lostsalt

02-07-2006, 01:32 PM	#10 (permalink)
morningrain Pow Wow Visitor Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 8	Last edited by morningrain; 02-23-2006 at 01:52 PM.

02-08-2006, 03:29 PM	#12 (permalink)
ajibik Absolute Low Life Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Wherever I want to... Posts: 228	Your "chief?" __________________ Mister Ibik, White Earth Ojibwe

02-08-2006, 04:32 PM	#13 (permalink)
billyjoejimbob Fat Singer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: white guy land Posts: 1,526	if they never signed a contract, scru them. like to know who they are tho. can think of a few.

02-09-2006, 06:35 PM	#14 (permalink)
morningrain Pow Wow Visitor Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 8	Last edited by morningrain; 02-23-2006 at 01:53 PM.

02-09-2006, 07:06 PM	#15 (permalink)
lostsalt One more push-up,Please! Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: where the missouri & kaw rivers meet Posts: 319	Who elected the Council of Elders?, Is this a branch of the Eastern Band outta Carolina, Or from the Western Groups in OK. I wasn't aware of any other groups? No disrespect, A chief is not an Ordinary , Arbitrary title. When I think of Chiefs when it comes to the Cherokee people I think of Wilma Mankiller, etc. I'm concerned because, If you mention on this site a "chief of a tribe", More than likely everyone here would know exactly who you're talking about. It is a small Country, This site frequented by many Bloods, Wannabes, Observers, Decendents and everybody else. Your thread sparked another thread that is very topical. Some people take offense @ the appointing and psuedo-ness of groups not tribes assigning themselves a chief. This hurts the crediabilty of the true "chiefs" out there making desicions effecting hundreds/thousands of lives. We all have our proper place. One should never force themselves into a place not proper for them. Peace Lostsalt