THE CHEROKEE Thread

[Critical Mass]

Damn Wal-Mart NDN that was pretty damn funny hahaha..But it's not worth wasting a perfect can of Luncheon Meat..

[wannabendn]

All I want to know is are you kin to "Chief Soft Shell Turtle Tom Netz"? Your history sounds rather close...Hmmm

[chiefgraybear]

Originally Posted by btcsinger

i have been reading all the posts by the people who claim to be cherokee. not just in this thread but in many others as well. it makes me sick to see all of these people trying to be something they are not. you are who you are and thats never going to change no matter how much you tell people you are something else. i am a proud member of the Eastern Band of the Cherokee Nation Residing on the qualla boundary. the mother town of the cherokee is just a couple miles from my house. all i am trying to say is be who you are and not something else people will respect you more.

Who do you think you are?! You don't know me, or my husband, or any of the other Cherokee people of pure and good heart claiming thier heritage that are not able to fully prove it. I know alot of ppl that JUST want to know and to learn and to honor the ancestors. WE are not after any commodities, or sell our stuff as authentic, or to take anything away from anyone else, etc....
I am so happy for you that you are a proud member of the Eastern Band.....Good for you....But its like Cherosage said..some of our ancestors could not register or refused to register, (as is the case with my husband's grt grand mother)
and with my ancestors, they hid out in the hills of KY.
You say you want us to be who we are and not something else.....Well, that is what we are trying to do...but ppl like you won't let us. WE are of Cherokee descent and we now it!
I agree that there are those that have their own agendas, I've know a couple of those ppl too... but you lump all of us together and that ain't right.
We may not be full blood, or be able to prove our heritage by the rolls or our blood quantum, BUT our hearts are Cherokee, (and all the other NDNs as well out there) and we have the desire.
And JIC anyone is thinkin' it.......My husband's handle on here "ChiefGrayBear" is a name given to him and not one he took on for himself. There is no inflated ego reflected in it.
You just need not to judge us unless you know us first. I do call them all my brothers and sisters and I will defend them.
Well, I guess I've had my say. It just makes me angry when ppl say such things and are so judgmental without fully knowing.

[chiefgraybear]

Originally Posted by CHEROSAGE

I've been watching this site for a while. I know of NDN people and some are my family, that are very much NDN but are'nt able to enroll because their grandma and grandpa did want to. I have a G.....grandpa that wasn't accepted because he rode in from MO to enroll. He was full blood. infact he fought in the Cherokee units of the Civil War. We have records of this. I have other relations that did enroll though, even without him. His wife was Shawnee. He is buried in the Ross-Mayes Cemetary. Does this make him not NDN. There are many Cherokees from the East Coast to Mexico. History proves these migrations. Why are these Cherokees in Tx no more Cherokee than the OKies or the NC Tribe? There are many in Tenn., Ala., etc. Why shouldn't there be, this is the Cherokees' home lands.

Thank you for what you have said here. It is so true. My husband's grt grand mother was full blood cherokee but refused to register...she was so angry with the Fed. Gov.
Her sisters registered though. And as for my family, they were hid out in the hills of KY. But I was always told of my heritage (as was my husband). Although I was not raised in a "traditional Cherokee way", my heart has always been drawn to know. Once again, Thank you. TF

Have a blessed day...

[JimGrayOwl]

Man o man, I see people getting pissed and judging people. I see blood quantums being sanctioned by real Indian. People trying to prove who they are. I thought this post was about being Cherokee. I must have read something wrong.

Being Cherokee is not about blood quantums, is it? When were blood quantums brought into the equation, do you know? Holy smokes IT'S A YONEGA THING, and I don't understand.

Where in our Nations history has it been acceptable to judge each other, isn't that for the Creator to do?? We are who we are, that's just the plain fact. One Nation with two Bands. There might not be agreement on it, but that is the way it is. Instead of tearing each other up, we had all better learn to get along because what is going on here is exactly what the Yonega want.

Before the Yonega, what made you Cherokee? So why is it any different now? I can't tell you how sad this makes me, but I see it all the time. This fighting has to stop. If you are Cherokee then act like it. If your not, and trying to be the Creator will sort all that out later. We were once probably the greatest Nation on earth, go back and review these posts and see if we still are.

I'm going to water to wash off the what has transpired here!

[kiowakat]

Originally Posted by chiefgraybear

Thank you for what you have said here. It is so true. My husband's grt grand mother was full blood cherokee but refused to register...she was so angry with the Fed. Gov.

well why did the cherokee people that ARE registered, say that if the cherokees didn't registered during and after the trail of tears, turned their backs on the ones that DID register, so the one that didn't register aren't consider cherokee by their own people????? is this true????.. in my opinion that means anybody who fell off or defected or ran off and didn't register means they aren't reconized because of such actions. and if somebody is handing out chieftainship you better make sure they ARE registered...just somebody in a backyard sweat ceremony in a city or non rez-idential area are NOT chiefs or shamen or anything ...you have to be on sacred ground of the tribe not in a city type place.......okay back to my coffee this morning lol

[Okwataga]

Before when someone posted that their family decided not to enroll or register or be involved with the tribe.... then they are denying their heritage... so now a couple of years from that time - there are rumors in the family that someone was ndn.... once you deny or not claim your heritage, that is what you are passing down to your descendants... no heritage...so all these people that are now claiming ndn blood without any ties to any nation, are now denying their other heritage - their "European or african american or what other blood is in their make up" so what are you then????

Is not the other blood in your veins just as important? mine is!

and you know going around saying "oh it's in my heart when I hear drums...." HELLO Cherokee's used turtle rattles more than drums..!!!!!!

I guess then I could go around saying oh when I smell saurkraut(sp) I feel German!! it's in my heart!!! man they would just laugh at me... Yes I have German blood, But that does not make me German it's a part of what makes me, ME!

[hywalker]

Sorry, but anyone of the non registerd style ndn, that goes around calling themselves chief, shouldnt get mad when the offended come down on you. the term chief is meant as a high honor and not just anyone can name you one. Seems you bring the hatred down on yourselves for making a mockery of the ndn ways.
A good drum will make my blood quicken, i get an exillerated feeling even. still dont make me ndn. found my last name on the dawes rolls. still dont make me cherokee or ndn. Wont even take the time to trace it cause it just wont make me ndn. then again , i dont have a wish to be ndn. I do on the other hand enjoy the native world and thank my wife for sharing it with me.

[sokoki_wolf]

"and you know going around saying "oh it's in my heart when I hear drums...." HELLO Cherokee's used turtle rattles more than drums..!!!!!!"
LMFAO

[sokoki_wolf]

theres not even many REAL Indian Chiefs who go around and use that as part of their name....seems alot of the wanna's like that title tho to make them all seem more real and such....you really do have to sit back and laugh at the names they pick too...all are either gentle sounding names or predatory animals...and because its a drab world they have to throw in color....but you dont ever see a name like Chief Purpleroadkill or Yellowskunk do ya? these wannabee tribes must have alot of chiefs tho cuz theres got to be at least 3 or 400 "cherokee" chiefs alone

[JimGrayOwl]

Originally Posted by kiowakat

well why did the cherokee people that ARE registered, say that if the cherokees didn't registered during and after the trail of tears, turned their backs on the ones that DID register, so the one that didn't register aren't consider cherokee by their own people????? is this true????.. in my opinion that means anybody who fell off or defected or ran off and didn't register means they aren't reconized because of such actions. and if somebody is handing out chieftainship you better make sure they ARE registered...just somebody in a backyard sweat ceremony in a city or non rez-idential area are NOT chiefs or shamen or anything ...you have to be on sacred ground of the tribe not in a city type place.......okay back to my coffee this morning lol

Kiowakat, you’re a little turned around about a couple of things with regard to the Cherokee. A lot of Cherokee don't know their history from a tradish perspective. Rather, from what the white man wrote. There is a lot of history with the nation, and probably with the 5 civilized tribes that is different from other nations especially in the west. Before the removal, many Cherokee, who were very traditional, left for the west. A little later, Trail of Tears time, some Cherokee bent to the yonega way and sold the Cherokee's land. They got theirs later at the hands of their own. Then there were the Q-boundary folks who escaped and hid out, just plain not removing. I had family in all three categories.

The one's in the west-Old Settlers-moved basically because they saw a white influence taking power, so they separated to maintain tradition. These folks were later terminated with the stroke of a pen, but they were still Cherokee. A lot remained in the area of Ark, Mo, and some moved into Texas. Many "real" Cherokee would say there are no Cherokee in these states. That is an untruth taught by a white government.

Then you got the CNO and UKB in OK. For what ever reason, by way of removal or survival, they got to the Indian Territory. This was going to be an Indian state, but much like Georgia, something of worth to the white man was found there so guess what, now it's free land. Many Indians were bamboozled into selling there land around the time of the Dawes rolls to white men. Many of these made it onto the Dawes rolls. Even back then they had commodity stuff, (it just wasn't wrapped) so why not. But even these Cherokee would have moved to Mexico probably if the US would have let them. It wasn't the best place to grow crops and the hunting wasn't as good as in the east.

So, the ones who sold there land, might not have gotten on the rolls. But they were still Cherokee. Then you got the folks back in NC. They hid out until the "Indian Crisis" was over. I think there base roll is dated like 1926 the Baker Roll. (correct me if I ain't got that right someone) But, they weren't on the Dawes, still they are Cherokee.

It's a historical fact, Cherokee's were the largest of all tribes. They faced the same issues as every other nation in that period of time, except, people keep forgetting that they were around whites about two hundred years longer than folks out west of the Mississippi. So, their blood is going to more diluted. There was a clan system. When the Cherokee Nation was decimated by the pox, NDN killin', etc, there just weren't as many men in the villages which were set on a clan system. You can't marry into your clan, what you gonna do? Your going to adopt, marry or other wise procreate the species. So, you got watered down blood. The same thing would have happened to all nations, but NDN's were not human by the time white people migrated west.

Now the Chief thing, and the many Cherokee tribes...that’s an issue that’s not hard to figure out, many Cherokee have whites in there blood lines, so anyone can pass for Cherokee. There just looking for whatever, it ain't right, but it happens. So you wanna be a Cherokee, give us your women (or men) you'll have a Cherokee in your family eventually hehehehehe.

I think there is going to be a revival of real Cherokee traditions soon. Most "real" Cherokee's don't have the old knowledge. I think that’s going to be a real awakening. Now, we should have a problem with fakes, but we also have to be careful when passing judgment. My G-granny refused to register with what is known as the Dawes commission, but she got put on it anyway. Some of the people who stayed in MO, AR, TX pretended to be white by day, and stomped like the dickens at night. I'm sure this is probably true of those in the east, and they were a lot more spread out than most know.

No Cherokee has the right to talk about B/Q. It was only in the last 200 years that it became an issue, and it was brought about by whites, not Indians. The Cherokee nation is over 10000 years old, but as with any Nation, if the government had its way, it wouldn't get another year older. I don't care if someone is coming back to the nation after 200 years of non-association, if they do it with a good heart they should be welcomed. If you got no blood, then live with it, everyone can't be Indian, but it is not now, nor has if ever been a requirement of the Nation.

One nation, two bands and if we took back all the descendants this might well be the Cherokee States of America!

Blood Quantum=termination...if we keep on with it, in a couple of hundred years there won't be any NDN's.

[JimGrayOwl]

Originally Posted by Okwataga

Before when someone posted that their family decided not to enroll or register or be involved with the tribe.... then they are denying their heritage... so now a couple of years from that time - there are rumors in the family that someone was ndn.... once you deny or not claim your heritage, that is what you are passing down to your descendants... no heritage...so all these people that are now claiming ndn blood without any ties to any nation, are now denying their other heritage - their "European or african american or what other blood is in their make up" so what are you then????

Is not the other blood in your veins just as important? mine is!

and you know going around saying "oh it's in my heart when I hear drums...." HELLO Cherokee's used turtle rattles more than drums..!!!!!!

I guess then I could go around saying oh when I smell saurkraut(sp) I feel German!! it's in my heart!!! man they would just laugh at me... Yes I have German blood, But that does not make me German it's a part of what makes me, ME!

Okwataga, with regard to what your saying about folks not claiming their blood, do you know what happened if a Cherokee owned property and had a little money, off the rez. If they were put on the rolls, and were more than half, then they got assigned a trustee to administer their money, and control their property. In the case of one of my lines, that meant a white family moved into their house and they were then homeless. In Virginia, for a time from the 20's until 60 years later if you put Indian on your child birth certificate, you were reclassified as negro and if you fought that, as some did, you went to jail. Lots of people that could pass for white did. Some grew away from the ways, others got together in secret. In MO, you could be jailed or killed if you didn't have a "pass" to be off reservation. Heck, at one time way before removal, Indian scalps in Virginia were worth a couple of pennies for a mans, but only one for women and children. It was a rough world, people had to survive because the white mans killing tools were superior to ours or they had more of them. Those feelings still exist here in the south in places, people are just now coming out. Folks gotta do what they have too, to survive, it's just the way it is.

[sokoki_wolf]

[QUOTE=JimGrayOwl"I think there is going to be a revival of real Cherokee traditions soon. Most "real" Cherokee's don't have the old knowledge. I think that’s going to be a real awakening"
that should be interesting...a revival of traditions not many have the knowledge of...