THE CHEROKEE Thread

[yuchgeha]

Originally Posted by Josiah

A tribal card can be issued to any that wish, even though they are below the minimum and have no rights to vote or to services.

I don't know where you're getting your information, but the Cherokee Nation of OK has no minimum blood quantum to be a member. A 1/512 member has as much an equal right to vote and to services as a 4/4 Cherokee. There are a lot of Cherokees below 1/4 that live in my area. Several vote and most use the services.

[yuchgeha]

Originally Posted by walela49

uuummmmm, I think the 1/512 comment was a joke dude!

I use to think that too. Until I saw a card with 1/512 with my own eyes.

[walmart ndn]

"The Three Federally Recognized tribes only count to 1/4 which is federal guidlines & managed by the BIA..
A tribal card can be issued to any that wish even though they are below the minimum"

I dont know about OK, but here in Cherokee, NC the government/BIA has no say so in our enrollment guidelines & we dont hand out tribal cards to just anybody, although we get alot of requests. If you meet the enrollment requirements your enrolled, if you dont your not, its that simple.

[walela49]

Originally Posted by yuchgeha

I use to think that too. Until I saw a card with 1/512 with my own eyes.

No Way!!! LOL OMG!

[Josiah]

Originally Posted by yuchgeha

I don't know where you're getting your information, but the Cherokee Nation of OK has no minimum blood quantum to be a member. A 1/512 member has as much an equal right to vote and to services as a 4/4 Cherokee. There are a lot of Cherokees below 1/4 that live in my area. Several vote and most use the services.

My Info comes form the Cherokee nation of OKLA
You are correct they will issue a card to anyone that meets the gudelines BUT you have to be 1/4 or more to vote or to obtain any services
I believe i said that in my earlier post:

Information on Registration with Cherokee Nation
registration@cherokee.org Registration Application (.pdf)
Replacement Application (.pdf)



This letter is in reference to your inquiry concerning Cherokee Registration. To be eligible for Tribal Citizenship with the Cherokee Nation, you must apply and be able to present a Certificate of Degree of Indian Blood (CDIB), issued by the Bureau of Indian Affairs.

To obtain a CDIB, you must formally apply for one and provide acceptable legal documents which connect you to an ancestor, who is listed with a roll number and a blood degree from the FINAL ROLLS OF CITIZENS AND FREEDMEN OF THE FIVE CIVILIZED TRIBES, Cherokee Nation, (commonly called the Dawes Commission of Final Rolls). These rolls were compiled between the years of 1899-1906. Quantum of Indian Blood is computed from the nearest paternal and/or maternal direct ancestor(s) of Indian blood listed on the Final Rolls.

Many descendents of Cherokee Indians can neither be certified nor qualify for tribal citizenship in the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma because their ancestors were not enrolled during the final enrollment. Unfortunately, these ancestor did not meet the requirements for the final enrollment. The requirements at that time were (1) applying between 1899-1906, (2) appearing on previous tribal rolls of 1880 or 1896, and (3) having a permanent residence within the Cherokee Nation (now the 14 northeastern counties of Oklahoma). If the ancestors had seperated from the Tribe and settled in states such as Arkansas, Kansas, Missouri, and Texas, they lost their citizenship within the Cherokee Nation. Only enrolled members of the Cherokee Nation named on the Final Rolls and/or their descendents are furnished Certificates of Degree of Indian Blood and/or Tribal Citizenship.

CDIB's are issued only through the natural parents. In cases of adoption, quantum of Indian blood must be proven through the BIOLOGICAL PARENTS to the enrolled ancestor. A copy of the Final Degree of Adoption must accompany the application for CDIB, as well as the STATE CERTIFIED, FULL IMAGE/PHOTOCOPY OF THE BIRTH RECORD. All information will remain CONFIDENTIAL.

To assist you in researching and for formally applying, an information packet has been designed to give you general facts, specific instructions describing required information and documentation, formal applications, research referral information, and other information. When you submit your application, there is a waiting period that varies for processing your application! Upon issuance of a CDIB, the tribal citizenship application will be placed on file for processing. Incidentally, should your descendancy from an enrolle NOT BE ESTABLISHED, the processing of the application may take longer. You will receive a letter from the Bureau of Indian Affairs explaining "why" your descendancy could not be certified.

Should you have any questions concerning the CDIB/Tribal Citizenship process, please contact the Registration Office. Thank you.

Sincerely,


Lela J. Ummerteskee,
Interim Registrar


ENC

/lju/10-95



BIA does not issue a CDIB unless your are at least 1/4 or more
Its always been that way
I am a voting and registered memeber of the Cherokee Nation of OK

[yuchgeha]

Originally Posted by Josiah

BIA does not issue a CDIB unless your are at least 1/4 or more
Its always been that way
I am a voting and registered memeber of the Cherokee Nation of OK

You need to read it again because you're wrong. It clearly states on the tribal membership application that you have to have your CDIB card before you can even apply for membership. Following your logic every member of the CNO is 1/4 or more and we all know that ain't true. And no where on the CDIB application does it require you to be 1/4 or more to get one.

Here is the link to the CDIB and tribal membership application for you. http://www.cherokee.org/Registration...ration_App.pdf

Legislative Act # 7-97
Title 26 Elections
Chapter 3 Qualifications and Registration of Voters
21. Eligibility to Vote
A. Basic Requirements
1. The person shall be a member of the Cherokee Nation eighteen (18) years of age or older as of the first day in March of the year of the election or referenda -and-
2. The person shall be registered to vote in a district and precinct as of the first business day in March of the election year.

Here is the link to the election law. http://www.cherokee.org/TribalGovern...97/Act7-97.pdf

It says you only have to be a member of CNO to vote. Not 1/4 or more like the UKB which also requires 1/4 or more blood quantum just to be a member.

[~pathwalker~]

Originally Posted by *CherokeeTears*

Hey PW, I read them comments earlier. I can't believe that person said what she said! That hurt me because she's talking about my people as well as hers. It's really f-ed up!

I know, was seriously messed up. I cannot believe what some ppl will say to be hateful or even just tryin to FIT in, in all the wrong ways. SOOO FRICKEN STOOOOOOPID! Stop the insanity!

[Josiah]

Originally Posted by yuchgeha

You need to read it again because you're wrong. It clearly states on the tribal membership application that you have to have your CDIB card

It says you only have to be a member of CNO to vote. Not 1/4 or more like the UKB which also requires 1/4 or more blood quantum just to be a member.

I stand Corrected!
I did some more research on the subject and discovered that the CNO's changed from Blood Quantum to Decendancy for membership a few years ago. (I guess i was out of town then).
It was my experience that it was a requirement for 1/4 or more and now that has changed! So I stand corrected and learn something new everyday...
Still does not change the fact that you have to trace to an anscestor on the Dawes Roll

I also found this post its just a portion
(http://www.electricscotland.com/hist...od_quantum.htm)
Apparently alot of other tribes are lowering there requirements including the Kiowas, Pottawatimies and others

here it is very interesting reading:



Native Indian Lore
Answers to Questionnaire on blood quantum



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Hello, one and all,

Hearing no objections, here are the replies I received. I removed the names of individuals mentioned - names have been changed to protect the innocent. Took poetic license and deleted one phrase from one reply and made spelling changes to two. Other than that, everything is exactly the way people replied. Left in the references to tribes that are mentioned. Still have original emails to prove those were my only changes. Going to forward the replies to some of my Pawnee people who were interested in seeing the replies.

There's a wide range and depth of responses and feelings. Very powerful. This is something touching our lives now, and some tribes have gone ahead to lead the way. This issue will be more important for our future generations and for the existence of our tribes/nations.

I believe that knowledge is power and the more we know, the more we can make informed decisions. Replies are from a wide range of tribes, gender, location, professions and age groups. I am so surprised that there are no resources or information available that I could find about this issue.

Again, to each of you, thanks for taking time out to respond. You have given me much to think and pray about before the vote takes place.

Irene

================================================
Response #1:

My tribe's enrollment requirement is 1/8th. Since we are small, it has been advantages to us. I wouldn't want to see us get a decendency roll because then you have all kinds of people on the roll like the cherokees.
The 1/8 requirement has been working for us.

================================================
Response #2:

1. Do you know of any other Oklahoma tribes/nations or other national tribes/nations that have successfully lowered their blood quantum enrollment requirement to less than 1/4, i.e., 1/8, 1/16, etc.? Not off the top of my head

2. What were the impacts on the tribe's/nation's of this decision to lower the requirement? Any benefits? Advantages, disadvantages? Advantages are that the tribe would no longer cease to exist, as our Ponca tribe is threatened in this way.

3. Do you know of a website where I might find information about this issue? No

4. What is your tribe/nation's blood requirement? Ponca, 1/4

5. What are your views on a blood quantum's? Originally according to one of our past council person they were simply rolls made for a count as to citizenship and not to regulate anything. Personally, it seems to me just another genocide method of causing quarrelling between our folks.

6. What is your opinion of having designated blood quantum's versus having descendency enrollments? Decendency enrollment gets away from a lot of political squabbling over whatever issue comes up. Prejudice is prejudice, no matter what turn it takes. Fear is the root of prejudice. Why should we fear our own children as to the opposite, love our own?

7. Do you know of any legal problems occurring between the Feds and the tribes/nations after blood quantum was lowered? I don't, but that doesn't mean anything. I do not keep up with any of these things.

8. What legal implications are there relative to the federal requirements of 1/4 degree to be considered Indian? Or is this relevant to this issue? Here is one, but I can imagine there would be great numbers of issues. It wouldn't make any difference. Never has. We can sue the government, but in the Ponca's case it took generations to receive claim money for their land in Nebraska, and then it was just a pittance of what land is really worth. Around 1500.00 a person. That wasn't much of an inheritance compared to being a Rockafellow or a Prince Charles.

9. Any other comments? Here is my story as to the way ill treatment and reverse discrimination in an Indian hospital has caused great emotional and financial difficulties for us as a family.

================================================
Response #3:

Greetings,

What can I say? I'm a full blood and naturally resented the change . Of course, being out numbered the resolution was passed a few years ago to lower to 1/8. This action helped my (our) relatives get their grandchildren enrolled which otherwise wouldn't have happened. I call these folks "paper Sac & Fox's. (NAME DELETED) could give you more info on how it effects the business side, like more funding. You know more (members) means less ($) per person too.

You're lucky to have two councils for decisions. We have the B.C. and a woman administrator who tells them how to conduct business and another woman who is second in command to her. <>

I hate to even think of the mention descendancy enrollments. I hope this happens after I'm history.

================================================
Response #4:

1. Do you know of any other Oklahoma tribes/nations or other national tribes/nations that have successfully lowered their blood quantum enrollment requirement to less than 1/4, i.e., 1/8, 1/16, etc.? Yes, the Kiowas voted in June 2002 and it was passed to go to 1/8, it still needs to be ratified and approved by the Secretary of the Interior. Also, the Comanches approved theirs last year for 1/8, my granddaughter is enrolled Comanche.

2. What were the impacts on the tribe's/nation's of this decision to lower the requirement? Any benefits? Advantages, disadvantages? Larger amount of funding for the tribe from the feds with more tribal members is an advantage. I don't believe there are any disadvantages, because they are our children!

3. Do you know of a website where I might find information about this issue? No

4. What is your tribe/nation's blood requirement? Kiowas still 1/4 until ratified and approved by the Secretary. Comanches are 1/8 and no parent has to be enrolled (which was their previous requirement -regardless if you were 1/4. I know because I tried to enroll my son in 1993 who is 1/4 Comanche, but they refused saying I had to be enrolled, I said dang, his Ka-Koo was a full-blood Comanche (if there is such a thing-Aye).

5. What are your views on a blood quantums? I think we should all go to descendency. The blood quantum issue only causes hurt and problems, if people can prove they are from a tribe we should let them be a tribal member.

6. What is your opinion of having designated blood quantums versus having descendancy enrollments? I like descendancy enrollment.

7. Do you know of any legal problems occurring between the Feds and the tribes/nations after blood quantum was lowered? NO

8. What legal implications are there relative to the federal requirements of 1/4 degree to be considered Indian? Or is this relevant to this issue? Don't know.

9. Any other comments? I voted for 1/8 for Kiowas in June 2002.

[CandaePrincess]

Totally off the subject. But I really feel the Federal Gov't should only recognize those who are 1/4 or more. Less and less money gets spent per tribe b/c there are more and more people coming out of the woodwork to get benefits, scholarships, social service assistance. Here's an idea they had talked about. Say you are 1/8 of one tribe and 1/8 of another. That could count as being 1/4 native. But then you'll have to show proof of that and would the tribes be willing to do something like that. Just a blood quantum card. Wouldn't be that hard. Just a thought.

Other than that. WHO CARES!!!! *L* I'm feeling too muss for this today.


weeeechaaaaa

[Josiah]

Originally Posted by CandaePrincess

Totally off the subject. But I really feel the Federal Gov't should only recognize those who are 1/4 or more. Less and less money gets spent per tribe b/c there are more and more people coming out of the woodwork to get benefits, scholarships, social service assistance. Here's an idea they had talked about. Say you are 1/8 of one tribe and 1/8 of another. That could count as being 1/4 native. But then you'll have to show proof of that and would the tribes be willing to do something like that. Just a blood quantum card. Wouldn't be that hard. Just a thought.

Other than that. WHO CARES!!!! *L* I'm feeling too muss for this today.


weeeechaaaaa

Although this started as a Cherokee thread
It effects all tribes when it comes to membership and what do you count as the Minimum when it comes to services
I know deep in our hearts we Indian no matter what our CDIB says
I can only prove 1/2 but my Mother is some but her kinfolk never bothered to go register and at one time my CDIB did say 5/8 but that was changed in 1980 when the rules tightened up

But i know some Indians that are a mix of many tribes only can be a member of one tribe so they are only 1/4
but they are a 1/2 of another
Real Problem that is only going to get worse as time goes by
No this is not just a Cherokee Problem this is all Tribes!!!

[Josiah]

Has anyone heard about the Wichitas?
I guess they wiped the slate clean and declared
all registered members Fullbloods pending approval from the Dept of Interior
Can anyone confirm this??