Greed in the Pow Wows

ThndrDude · 09-28-2005, 09:49 PM

It's hard to put on a traditional Pow Wow these days. People are EXPECTING to be paid more and more money. What happened to going because you were honored to be asked? Today, if someone is not paid enough they threaten to tell lies, spread rumers and harrass committees till they pay up! Is this honorable? Let's remember why we go. If you really need to be paid to go, or paid more then promissed, then dont go. You are not wanted anyway.

WhoMe · 09-29-2005, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThndrDude

It's hard to put on a traditional Pow Wow these days. People are EXPECTING to be paid more and more money. What happened to going because you were honored to be asked? Today, if someone is not paid enough they threaten to tell lies, spread rumers and harrass committees till they pay up! Is this honorable? Let's remember why we go. If you really need to be paid to go, or paid more then promissed, then dont go. You are not wanted anyway.

ThndrD,

"I'm not sure what exactly a traditional powwow is anymore."

In the recent past, traditional powwows were held by a tribe in their traditional dance grounds, using a traditional drum and feeding all who attend. A good spirit of cohesion, pride and sharing prevailed.

Today, some or none of these may apply to MODERN "traditional" powwows.

Some people simply call powwows without contests "a traditional powwow."

Hmmmm?

I agree with you about people expecting to be paid more than promised, spreading lies and rumors. No it's not honorable nor is being asked an honor by "SOME" people who powwow for a living.

I recently had this experience with one of the nations top dancers.....

YOU, WOULD, BEEEEE SURPRISED???

Wyldwolf52 · 09-29-2005, 01:21 PM

I live on the West coast. As I read the posts etc. I notice that the majority of you are on the East coast. I see many differances between the coasts. The most consistant that I have viewed is That The East gives out prizes and money. While us over here on the West coast do not.
What I wonder is...you dance to send prayers. Do you all think that creator can't tell the differance between a dance for prayer or to dance for prizes?

**chazziff** · 09-29-2005, 01:21 PM

for this area a traditional pw is a non-contest pw with occassionally family sponsored specials - either running all weekend or just one time during the weekend ...

i would have to agree that some people are getting greedy - it does have to revolve around keeping up with the jones i guess - if you aint pulling up to the pw grounds in a late model vehicle you aint makin it these days ...

any hoo - my kids are quite satisfied with the $10.00 they get when they dance at traditional one day pws and they get really excited when they get $20.00

**Wojapi4Me** · 09-29-2005, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wyldwolf52

I live on the West coast. As I read the posts etc. I notice that the majority of you are on the East coast. I see many differances between the coasts. The most consistant that I have viewed is That The East gives out prizes and money. While us over here on the West coast do not.
What I wonder is...you dance to send prayers. Do you all think that creator can't tell the differance between a dance for prayer or to dance for prizes?

The west coast (i.e. California, etc.) has some of the biggest money, casino pow wows out there so I'm not sure what you mean about no prize monies on the west coast. Money pow wows are in every state in the union.

Now, to traditional pow wows - just because a pow wow has contests doesn't mean it's not a traditional pow wow and just because one doesn't have contest doesn't make it a traditional pow wow. WhoMe hit on it best...traditional pow wows are held in communities and include other doings as well as the pow wow dancing such as giveaways, feasts, etc.

If you are to have a traditional pow wow, I was always taught to feed everyone in attendance - everyone not just the singers and dancers, but anyone who is hungry. And this is done for each day of the pow wow. You are also to provide shelter for the singers. Whether that be a hotel room(s), a tent, or a tipi...provide them with shelter and take care of them the best you can.

Also, to have a traditional pow wow you have to have a storyteller, a flint-knapper, and a guy walking a wolf...just no way around that. Just kidding.

Oh, WhoMe...most in the pow wow world no know what you're reffering to, and it should be noted that that dancer comes from a tribe that didn't pow wow dance traditionally.

debbieyd · 09-29-2005, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wyldwolf52

I live on the West coast. As I read the posts etc. I notice that the majority of you are on the East coast. I see many differances between the coasts. The most consistant that I have viewed is That The East gives out prizes and money. While us over here on the West coast do not.
What I wonder is...you dance to send prayers. Do you all think that creator can't tell the differance between a dance for prayer or to dance for prizes?

Some powwows in my opinion are too commercialized; but with all the powwow people that travel especially for the prize $$, drum pay, MC pay, etc....$$ speaks for people these days. (it seems)

Wyldwolf52 · 09-29-2005, 02:14 PM

The casino's you speak of is an income for the entire tribe be it 1 or 1,000. That ia earned monies not prizes.
Also all are fed, elders being served, then all else that is there eats. Can you tell me where I can find one of these "prize money" in Oregon or Northern Caifornia. I really would like to attend for the experance of it....... To keep an open mind, you need to walk where you haven't before.
Oops there I am in my Star Trek mode again.

debbieyd · 09-29-2005, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wyldwolf52

The casino's you speak of is an income for the entire tribe be it 1 or 1,000. That ia earned monies not prizes.
Also all are fed, elders being served, then all else that is there eats. Can you tell me where I can find one of these "prize money" in Oregon or Northern Caifornia. I really would like to attend for the experance of it....... To keep an open mind, you need to walk where you haven't before.
Oops there I am in my Star Trek mode again.

Over here we have a Legends Casino Pow-wow & Rodeo, and to date we as Tribal enrolled Rez people, have not seen "earned monies" yet! But then I haven't tread those tracks yet, there are a lot of places where I haven't been before but excuse me, I've observed a lot, ever since I was born and even before that!

**WocusWoman** · 09-29-2005, 02:43 PM

Remember, this all starts when you hand that 1st dollar out to each tiny-tot that dances!

WhoMe · 09-29-2005, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WocusWoman

Remember, this all starts when you hand that 1st dollar out to each tiny-tot that dances!

WW,

I never thought of it that way.

You are raising a very valid observation!

**Wojapi4Me** · 09-29-2005, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WocusWoman

Remember, this all starts when you hand that 1st dollar out to each tiny-tot that dances!

True, true, but it falls on us parents. What we teach our children when they receive money is how they'll view pow wows when they grow up. My little girl won her first $10 at the tribe's pow wow here July 4th and I instructer her to give it to the drum who sang their song. She did so without any hesitation.

As kids grow, they'll keep in mind that what they earn they should give back...whether to the singers, the committee for next year's dance, an elder, or other members of their family who might need gas $$. Its perfectly ok to keep some, but you should always remember to give back some as well.

This is a lesson that not many of the pros ever learned or heeded.

tweety_rez · 09-29-2005, 03:43 PM

You know everyone has to earn a living. Some people choose to take it on the road and hit the pow wow circuit. Why are people knocking pros? Just think of the benefits....you get to see the country, meet new people, laugh with old friends and and keep making new outfits. But hey it is work! I go to pow wow every now and again and not as often as I would like to, because I chose to work in an office.

Sometimes for vacation time I go to pow wows. I dance at both traditional and contest pow wows. I like the relaxed atmosphere of the traditional pow wow. At the contest pow wow I always feel rushed and boy either way isn't it tiring?

Just think those pros have to do it every weekend and sometimes on the weekday too. I just wanted to say, don't knock it until you tried it.... SHoot, I know I couldn't make a living at it, I always mess up somewhere along the way, miss a grand entry here, miss a step there, catch a cold and can't keep up. ETC... ETC....

STay cool,yall and have love for all the dancing peeps pro or not.

Nezbah · 09-29-2005, 04:06 PM

Hmmmmm I agree on most of these points. However, most of greed and everything is learned. People thinking or believing that money is what makes the world go around. Which is quite sad, because my sense of worth and value is only about traditions and family. Those are the most valuable things any of us possess today. Like Singerdad said, I too, have my son give at least 1/2 or all his winnings or pay to the drum. Every powwow I give him $$ for the drum whether he wins or not. And maybe if we, as adults and parents start changing our views regarding money, value, and worth then maybe the younger generation will soon follow.

I just started a NA Club for the Elemen and Mid school students over here and one of the biggest things I stressed to the parents was the fact that I wanted to do gatherings or powwow in a more tradish sense. Where the kids were to sponsor a powwow/gathering to honor the elders and those who have helped them. I told them we needed to teach the kids how to respect those who have given them things that they can carry on in life. I didn't like to have big $$ or contest powwows because it creates alot of anomosity and negative thinking in a area that is considered good. Powwows that have a good 'aura' or vibe around it are the best ones to be at. And I think the bigger $$ it has the bigger the MONSTER of greed will get. Sometimes I think we need 'attitude' check points at powwows....LOL. You may come in but leave the attitude out. :D.

Only a few cents worth of my opinion.....:P

09-28-2005, 09:49 PM	#1 (permalink)
ThndrDude Pow Wow Visitor Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: South Bend IN Posts: 21	Greed in the Pow Wows It's hard to put on a traditional Pow Wow these days. People are EXPECTING to be paid more and more money. What happened to going because you were honored to be asked? Today, if someone is not paid enough they threaten to tell lies, spread rumers and harrass committees till they pay up! Is this honorable? Let's remember why we go. If you really need to be paid to go, or paid more then promissed, then dont go. You are not wanted anyway.

09-29-2005, 01:21 PM	#3 (permalink)
Wyldwolf52 Springdeer Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Grants Pass, Oregon Posts: 57	Prizes? I live on the West coast. As I read the posts etc. I notice that the majority of you are on the East coast. I see many differances between the coasts. The most consistant that I have viewed is That The East gives out prizes and money. While us over here on the West coast do not. What I wonder is...you dance to send prayers. Do you all think that creator can't tell the differance between a dance for prayer or to dance for prizes?

09-29-2005, 01:21 PM	#4 (permalink)
chazziff YO!! Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: in a big sleigh bed Posts: 6,463	for this area a traditional pw is a non-contest pw with occassionally family sponsored specials - either running all weekend or just one time during the weekend ... i would have to agree that some people are getting greedy - it does have to revolve around keeping up with the jones i guess - if you aint pulling up to the pw grounds in a late model vehicle you aint makin it these days ... any hoo - my kids are quite satisfied with the $10.00 they get when they dance at traditional one day pws and they get really excited when they get $20.00 __________________ See I wanna move, but can't escape from you So I keep it low, keep a secret code So everybody else don't have to know So keep ya love locked down

09-29-2005, 03:43 PM	#12 (permalink)
tweety_rez Tiny Tot Dancer Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 45	pro pow wowers? You know everyone has to earn a living. Some people choose to take it on the road and hit the pow wow circuit. Why are people knocking pros? Just think of the benefits....you get to see the country, meet new people, laugh with old friends and and keep making new outfits. But hey it is work! I go to pow wow every now and again and not as often as I would like to, because I chose to work in an office. Sometimes for vacation time I go to pow wows. I dance at both traditional and contest pow wows. I like the relaxed atmosphere of the traditional pow wow. At the contest pow wow I always feel rushed and boy either way isn't it tiring? Just think those pros have to do it every weekend and sometimes on the weekday too. I just wanted to say, don't knock it until you tried it.... SHoot, I know I couldn't make a living at it, I always mess up somewhere along the way, miss a grand entry here, miss a step there, catch a cold and can't keep up. ETC... ETC.... STay cool,yall and have love for all the dancing peeps pro or not. __________________ undefined[size=3]undefineR Tweety Rez

09-29-2005, 04:06 PM	#13 (permalink)
Nezbah Peace n Mutton Grease Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Ober here in NM Posts: 875	Hmmmmm I agree on most of these points. However, most of greed and everything is learned. People thinking or believing that money is what makes the world go around. Which is quite sad, because my sense of worth and value is only about traditions and family. Those are the most valuable things any of us possess today. Like Singerdad said, I too, have my son give at least 1/2 or all his winnings or pay to the drum. Every powwow I give him $$ for the drum whether he wins or not. And maybe if we, as adults and parents start changing our views regarding money, value, and worth then maybe the younger generation will soon follow. I just started a NA Club for the Elemen and Mid school students over here and one of the biggest things I stressed to the parents was the fact that I wanted to do gatherings or powwow in a more tradish sense. Where the kids were to sponsor a powwow/gathering to honor the elders and those who have helped them. I told them we needed to teach the kids how to respect those who have given them things that they can carry on in life. I didn't like to have big $$ or contest powwows because it creates alot of anomosity and negative thinking in a area that is considered good. Powwows that have a good 'aura' or vibe around it are the best ones to be at. And I think the bigger $$ it has the bigger the MONSTER of greed will get. Sometimes I think we need 'attitude' check points at powwows....LOL. You may come in but leave the attitude out. :D. Only a few cents worth of my opinion.....:P __________________ You have crossed my path, you have touched my heart, you are my friend, You will never be forgotten......

09-29-2005, 02:14 PM	#7 (permalink)
Wyldwolf52 Springdeer Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Grants Pass, Oregon Posts: 57	The casino's you speak of is an income for the entire tribe be it 1 or 1,000. That ia earned monies not prizes. Also all are fed, elders being served, then all else that is there eats. Can you tell me where I can find one of these "prize money" in Oregon or Northern Caifornia. I really would like to attend for the experance of it....... To keep an open mind, you need to walk where you haven't before. Oops there I am in my Star Trek mode again.

09-29-2005, 02:43 PM	#9 (permalink)
WocusWoman N8tiffUmatillaMAMA Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Interior Alaska Posts: 2,737	Remember, this all starts when you hand that 1st dollar out to each tiny-tot that dances!

09-29-2005, 04:09 PM	#14 (permalink)
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