Greed in the Pow Wows - Page 2

**kiyaanii mom** · 09-29-2005, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WocusWoman

Here's the problem. Some of us have the "white-man's mentality." It works the same way with the NFL, NBA, etc. We pay big money to go watch grown men play sports, because they can't do anything else with themselves. Some of us feel the same way about contest powwow's, like it's a full-time job, because we have nothing else going in our lives. The hostility starts when well-known or not so known dancers who tend to win alot feel as if there "lively-hood" is being hurt or cut into, they have totally lost sight of why they dance to begin with. This should not be someone's full-time job, and should never be looked at this way. Where is the tradition in that, and what could be left if you are teaching your children this way.

You shouldn't assume that professional powwow people who are doing it for jobs have "nothing else going on in their lives." A lot of these people use this money to provide for families. Many of these people are college students and professionals. For example the late Daryl Jack, just graduated from HINU last May and actually was such an outstanding student he was awarded the Chief Manueltio Scholarship, which is the highest academic scholarship given by the Navajo Nation. I bet he used his winnings to provide for his family, pay bills, and probably help pay for school.

I'm not sure why this concept is "white-man's mentality." Maybe you could explain that. We all have to buy food, pay bills and pay taxes. At least these people are talented and lucky enough to do it through the one thing they love. Is it any different than a native artist who sells his wares depicting native images? Or should he only create non-ndn images since he will use the money to make a living?

Someone is making money off of these big contest powwows. Why not the ndns?

ojibwecommodbod · 09-29-2005, 07:47 PM

It seems the majority of people that "hate on" competiton powwows are either new age indians, or belong to a tribe that didn't see powwows until recently. These "traditional powwow people" have a major misconception of powwows in general. They tend to make powwows more sacred than they have to. Powwow is a social gathering. We,(at least we Ojibwe) have seperate religious gatherings that we attend. Most of the time you see the eastern people combing the two to an upmost extreme. Just read some of the peoples post on here. Its obvious who's who.
Now don't get me wrong, a good ol' tradish powwow is good for the soul, I got to have one every now and then too, but to hate on champion dancers and singers is pathetic. These are "professional athletes" if you will, people that dedicate their whole lives to dancing or singing, of course they should make money.
As far as greed goes, yeah I see it alot too. People who are all about the paper and forgot why they started singing and dancing. Not all competive singers and dancers, just a few. But please, to the people who make a holy ceremony out of a lil "tradish powwow" in Georgia or Arkansas, please. Save it for church or sweatlodge or whatever it is you people do.

ThndrDude · 09-29-2005, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhoMe

ThndrD,

"I'm not sure what exactly a traditional powwow is anymore."

In the recent past, traditional powwows were held by a tribe in their traditional dance grounds, using a traditional drum and feeding all who attend. A good spirit of cohesion, pride and sharing prevailed.

Today, some or none of these may apply to MODERN "traditional" powwows.

Some people simply call powwows without contests "a traditional powwow."

Hmmmm?

I agree with you about people expecting to be paid more than promised, spreading lies and rumors. No it's not honorable nor is being asked an honor by "SOME" people who powwow for a living.

I recently had this experience with one of the nations top dancers.....

YOU, WOULD, BEEEEE SURPRISED???

I agree that may "traditional" pow wows are just called that. I believe a traditional pow wow is held on old ground, that dance is prayers and a sacred fire burns four days. There is much more but you get what I am saying... it is more then just those two days.

ThndrDude · 09-29-2005, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ojibwecommodbod

It seems the majority of people that "hate on" competiton powwows are either new age indians, or belong to a tribe that didn't see powwows until recently. These "traditional powwow people" have a major misconception of powwows in general. They tend to make powwows more sacred than they have to. Powwow is a social gathering. We,(at least we Ojibwe) have seperate religious gatherings that we attend. Most of the time you see the eastern people combing the two to an upmost extreme. Just read some of the peoples post on here. Its obvious who's who.
Now don't get me wrong, a good ol' tradish powwow is good for the soul, I got to have one every now and then too, but to hate on champion dancers and singers is pathetic. These are "professional athletes" if you will, people that dedicate their whole lives to dancing or singing, of course they should make money.
As far as greed goes, yeah I see it alot too. People who are all about the paper and forgot why they started singing and dancing. Not all competive singers and dancers, just a few. But please, to the people who make a holy ceremony out of a lil "tradish powwow" in Georgia or Arkansas, please. Save it for church or sweatlodge or whatever it is you people do.

I dont have a "hate on" for money. I have enjoyed many contest pow wows. If you go to a contest pow wow the expectations are much different then when you go to an established traditional pow wow. I have enjoyed many different types of pow wows. I have learned over time what is expected at which type of pow wow. I believe that most people know what to expect.

ThndrDude · 09-29-2005, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wyldwolf52

I live on the West coast. As I read the posts etc. I notice that the majority of you are on the East coast. I see many differances between the coasts. The most consistant that I have viewed is That The East gives out prizes and money. While us over here on the West coast do not.
What I wonder is...you dance to send prayers. Do you all think that creator can't tell the differance between a dance for prayer or to dance for prizes?

I was tought both. The majority of the pow wow is simply a social event but there are very spiritual times. When I dance I pray MOST OF THE TIME but not always. I dont participate in many pow wows but I have attended all types.

ThndrDude · 09-29-2005, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BizDawg

On the other hand, there's lots of new pws springing up, calling themselves "traditional" when they have no clue what they are doing.

I see where a dancer could be greedy and try to take advantage of the situation, but that's on them. And a committee should know what the heck they are doing or else they're just a hobby club...

I've been burned before - many years ago. Was honored to be asked, drove 5 hours only to find there was no hotel room or food provided (figured they'd give me enough $ after the pw to cover it). Danced all weekend. Opened the envelope to find $50. Said they didn't collect enough at the gate...

I learnt the hard way. Got home and was talking to this elder. Thought he'd give me some profound spiritual advice or something. Instead he said, 'Should have got a contract.' LOL.

If a dancer is invited they should be fed and housed unless they ask otherwise and provide thier own. If it is going to be a long travel I believe this concern should be stated by the person before agreeing to attend. Most time it believe it will be taken into concideration. If this concern is not stated then the dancer should accept whatever is given.

**kiyaanii mom** · 10-03-2005, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ojibwecommodbod

It seems the majority of people that "hate on" competiton powwows are either new age indians, or belong to a tribe that didn't see powwows until recently. These "traditional powwow people" have a major misconception of powwows in general. They tend to make powwows more sacred than they have to. Powwow is a social gathering. We,(at least we Ojibwe) have seperate religious gatherings that we attend. Most of the time you see the eastern people combing the two to an upmost extreme. Just read some of the peoples post on here. Its obvious who's who.
Now don't get me wrong, a good ol' tradish powwow is good for the soul, I got to have one every now and then too, but to hate on champion dancers and singers is pathetic. These are "professional athletes" if you will, people that dedicate their whole lives to dancing or singing, of course they should make money.
As far as greed goes, yeah I see it alot too. People who are all about the paper and forgot why they started singing and dancing. Not all competive singers and dancers, just a few. But please, to the people who make a holy ceremony out of a lil "tradish powwow" in Georgia or Arkansas, please. Save it for church or sweatlodge or whatever it is you people do.

Social Gathering!

So everyone just go and have fun!

creative soaper · 10-03-2005, 05:55 PM

Money brings out the worst in people no different for the powwow scene. Starting from the committees and wanting to get paid for their efforts of putting a powwow on. To the dancers and singers. Even the vendors. We get over charged more then anyone would know. Some fees are just reediculus.

geronimo · 10-03-2005, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WocusWoman

Here's the problem. Some of us have this mentality. It works the same way with the NFL, NBA, etc. We pay big money to go watch grown men play sports, because they can't do anything else with themselves. Some of us feel the same way about contest powwow's, like it's a full-time job, because we have nothing else going in our lives. The hostility starts when well-known or not so known dancers who tend to win alot feel as if there "lively-hood" is being hurt or cut into, they have totally lost sight of why they dance to begin with. This should not be someone's full-time job, and should never be looked at this way. Where is the tradition in that, and what could be left if you are teaching your children this way.

I agree with Wocus Woman. No one's trying to say this is the way all NDN dancers are; it's not a blanket statement. But, it is a problem among some. I don't care what kind of mentality it is, if when I'm 60, I have no retirement, (no social security???:)) no health insurance & bad knees b/c all I did was dance @ powwows for a living, then I'm going to be in pretty bad shape. I was raised to work for a legacy to support and leave to my family and NDN community. When a powwow culture envelopes dishonesty, greed, hostility, jealousy, gossip, living hand to mouth, is when you wonder if the true meaning of it has been lost. ;hey, if you ask me, acting "white" would be the "me, me, me - i'm so special, it's all about me" attitude of some dancers; b/c you know how individualistic white culture is -

Hey WocusWoman, in all fairness, there are a lot of athletes out there who are well-rounded, educated, generous individuals who make this crazy world we live in a lot better :)

ThndrDude · 10-11-2005, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by creative soaper

Money brings out the worst in people no different for the powwow scene. Starting from the committees and wanting to get paid for their efforts of putting a powwow on. To the dancers and singers. Even the vendors. We get over charged more then anyone would know. Some fees are just reediculus.

With this I agree with you 100%! Vendors are expected to bear the whole burden of the Pow Wows and that is wrong. If the dancers want more... charge the vendors more. That's the attitude. Well charge the vendors less and to hell with the money people want!

**badmaninc** · 10-11-2005, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coyot_In_The_House

BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.......

Dude, I cracked up when I read this cause I was thinking the same thing. Missed your smart a** remark.

lil_miss_chippewa · 11-20-2005, 10:46 PM

You are right. that is wrong to be greedy. it is about all native americans from all over coming together talking laughing telling there stories and keeping the native american culture alive not about how much you going to make for going.

**WocusWoman** · 11-21-2005, 01:39 PM

Hey WocusWoman, in all fairness, there are a lot of athletes out there who are well-rounded, educated, generous individuals who make this crazy world we live in a lot better :)[/quote]

Hey I calls it, how I sees it! J/K:) Yes there are some smart, realistic people out there, but be real! These are the exception to the rule and you know it. Plain and simple anyone who believes they can spend their whole life going from powwow to powwow, get an education and earn enough money to support a family with kids is not thinking with a full deck of cards. They are not looking down the road very far.

09-29-2005, 07:47 PM	#22 (permalink)
ojibwecommodbod Powwow Bouncer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: da ghetto but moving soon Posts: 45	here we go again It seems the majority of people that "hate on" competiton powwows are either new age indians, or belong to a tribe that didn't see powwows until recently. These "traditional powwow people" have a major misconception of powwows in general. They tend to make powwows more sacred than they have to. Powwow is a social gathering. We,(at least we Ojibwe) have seperate religious gatherings that we attend. Most of the time you see the eastern people combing the two to an upmost extreme. Just read some of the peoples post on here. Its obvious who's who. Now don't get me wrong, a good ol' tradish powwow is good for the soul, I got to have one every now and then too, but to hate on champion dancers and singers is pathetic. These are "professional athletes" if you will, people that dedicate their whole lives to dancing or singing, of course they should make money. As far as greed goes, yeah I see it alot too. People who are all about the paper and forgot why they started singing and dancing. Not all competive singers and dancers, just a few. But please, to the people who make a holy ceremony out of a lil "tradish powwow" in Georgia or Arkansas, please. Save it for church or sweatlodge or whatever it is you people do.

10-03-2005, 05:55 PM	#28 (permalink)
creative soaper Tiny Tot Dancer Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Round Valley RezzR/California Posts: 30	Respect Money brings out the worst in people no different for the powwow scene. Starting from the committees and wanting to get paid for their efforts of putting a powwow on. To the dancers and singers. Even the vendors. We get over charged more then anyone would know. Some fees are just reediculus. __________________ Without a job, a man is hard lucked; without money, a man is poor; without a family, a man is nothing

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11-20-2005, 10:46 PM	#32 (permalink)
lil_miss_chippewa santeena Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: smyrna Georgia Posts: 3	You are right. that is wrong to be greedy. it is about all native americans from all over coming together talking laughing telling there stories and keeping the native american culture alive not about how much you going to make for going.

11-21-2005, 01:39 PM	#33 (permalink)
WocusWoman N8tiffUmatillaMAMA Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Interior Alaska Posts: 2,740	Hey WocusWoman, in all fairness, there are a lot of athletes out there who are well-rounded, educated, generous individuals who make this crazy world we live in a lot better :)[/quote] Hey I calls it, how I sees it! J/K:) Yes there are some smart, realistic people out there, but be real! These are the exception to the rule and you know it. Plain and simple anyone who believes they can spend their whole life going from powwow to powwow, get an education and earn enough money to support a family with kids is not thinking with a full deck of cards. They are not looking down the road very far.

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