what is with navajo's and southern style dancing

punkrock · 09-11-2005, 07:27 PM

i am so suprised that the desert indians are wanting to dance southern style if you are out there, who adopted you or who gave you the right to dance these styles. there are a few that wear otoe, kiowa, commanche, and they wear buckskins.

i just want to know whats going on with this regalia business.

NastyFlaps · 09-12-2005, 01:17 AM

Well, it seems that once again there is a brave little soul out there in powwow world that would rather type than have the courage to just ask, man to man, a simple question to a docile, humble group of people. So, since this person just decided to make a new account and a thread based on their newfound bewilderment of such an insignificant subject... I thought, I might as well do the same thing... but have some type of context to my post.

To help shed some light into the darkness that you walk, I'll just tell you something I've heard since, let's see here, since birth. Don't judge a book by it's cover. To better explain, ARE YOU FLIPPING SERIOUS? Do you honestly think that us Navajos just decided to pick up the powwow lifestyle just to parade around in another tribes' regalia without knowing the background, the stories, the songs and the feelings without any regard to other Southern tribes? Come on, now! That's like comparing us to the White Trash that decide to be Injun for a weekend and put on some multicolored warbonnet and dance around inside an intertribal "feeling" Indigenous. Now, that my friend is an insult. Navajos are not hobbyists. We aren't fake.

You have to understand that the adoption of Southern Dance styles have been an integral part of powwows. If someone doesn't carry it on, it will be lost and maybe gone forever. You also have to understand that there are a lot of inter tribal marriages throughout Indigenous America uniting various cultures, traditions, dance styles, designs and spirituality. There are members of Oklahoma tribes residing on Navajo land, and have been since the early days. Those people get drawn into the aura of the Navajo and find a mate and/or make friends of Navajos as well. Being the storytellers that Indigenous people are, families are told of old ways, the way everything was started, and the way they are supposed to be conducted. I believe this is a fine example of the meaning behind 'the circle of life', not just human life, but the life of powwow history. Seriously, would you rather have Whitey preaching the significance of the four directions? Or would you rather have another brother or sister with pure Indigenous blood engoring their veins telling you?

There are quite a few Gourd Dance societies on the Navajo reservation that are comprised of Kiowa, Cheyenne, Otoe, Comanche, Ponca ways. The influence of Native American Church aided the adoption of certain rites. You can't say that the colors red and blue, the waterbird, and peyote belong to one specific tribe. I've held the contention that the beauty of being an Indigenous person is the ablility to share. I believe if you don't share, nothing will progress. We will be the same as we were in the old days, one tribe warring against another. The thought of one tribe being better than another tribe aided Whitey to take over our land and have the audacity to tax us for the land they stole.

Rather than fighting and bickering, we should unite one way or another to regain our land. We should pool money generated by Indian casinos to pay for the best lawyers to legally take our land back.

Since you brought up the "regalia business", I must throw in my two bits. Creativity is bliss. Ingornance is hit or miss. A lot of Navajo powwow regalia may resemble designs of another tribe, consider that a TRIBUTE. We aren't trying to show you up in any way. We are in some way thanking you for your influence to express ourselves through dance. Designs are designs, take them for what they are. If they happen to resemble one tribe's designs, whoop dee doo for you, buddy. You can't tell me that designs are mandated to one tribe. If that is the case, then WHICH TRIBE OWNS THE MEDICINE WHEEL? Are you going to sue our ancestors that etched horses and geometric patterns in the wall just because yours did too? We are Indigenous people, we are all related. So brother (or sister), you wanna sue a Navajo for using geometric designs? Then sue all the Navajo rug weavers that have used geometric designs since the beginning of time. You won't hear a Navajo cry bloody murder if they see an OK dancer wearing geometric designs. Why? Because we aren't incipid and we won't point fingers, only our lips.

One last thing. I swear. I believe that your complaint, or whatever the flip you wanna call it, would only hold bearing at a TRADITIONAL "Traditional" POWWOW. However, nowadays, we have COMPETITION powwows. And I have NEVER seen a set of Powwow rules that state: "All designs and dance styles must correspond to the dancer's Tribal Affiliation." Competing at a competition powwow is a business. Females, being females, must have the lastest, phattest fabric or tri cut beads. And their designs have to be 'wicked' or 'tough' or 'bomb'. Most of the designs dancers where nowadays, originate the same way dance styles originated: in dreams. Sometimes, all you have to do is close your eyes and BAM! you have a new design. Other times, you have to look at something or someone to get "inspiration" for your creativity. Should fancy shawl dancers pay royalties to every butterfly they see? Should Male Northern Traditional dancers go back in time to pay royalties to warriors who fought in territorial battles?

I'll leave you to break out the dictionary and study my passage word for word. Don't worry, my grammar is sound- unlike some who post on here... But, there's nothing worse in life than being unoriginal. Remember that.

Nasty Flaps
Navajo Nation Powwow Representive Extraordinaire

"Quit B!TCH!NG, start a REVOLUTION"

RedGrassdancer · 09-12-2005, 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by punkrock

i am so suprised that the desert indians are wanting to dance southern style if you are out there, who adopted you or who gave you the right to dance these styles. there are a few that wear otoe, kiowa, commanche, and they wear buckskins.

i just want to know whats going on with this regalia business.

What the hell dude? or dude-ette? where did you wake up at to come with a freakin lame thread?? This is the 2K's, Y2K happened 5 years ago!! I totally agree with Nastyflaps. We, the Native Americans (hence "Native Americans" ) are an intertribal society with many, if not thousands of intertribal marriages, the days of indian wars are long gone!! The "regalia business"? for example, I had a very good friend from the Lakota Nation who made my first grassdance outfit and put on Lakota designs as they pleased, i did not tell them to put those designs on, they designed the outfit as they wished and then explained the story behind the designs as they gave me permission to dance with and to wear it with honor.

lastly, I have to say, right on nastyflaps! i think this PUNKrock just started an account to try and stir up age old dust.

AHO! keep dancing and singing!!

p_town_mami · 09-12-2005, 09:48 AM

You go Nasty Flaps!!!

geronimo · 09-12-2005, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by punkrock

i am so suprised that the desert indians are wanting to dance southern style if you are out there, who adopted you or who gave you the right to dance these styles. there are a few that wear otoe, kiowa, commanche, and they wear buckskins.

i just want to know whats going on with this regalia business.

It's called Pan-Indianism. And, in the contemporary powwow world, a lot of things have become universal. Personally, I have no problem with it as long as it's done respectfully AND as long as people know their individual tribes' HISTORY & TRADITIONS & hold that in higher regard. B/C as much as it is imp't to share, we don't want to become homogenized and forget our individual beauty & diversity as Indian people.

For example, you wouldn't see Navajos wearing these styles @ their traditional/sacred ceremonies.

Big ups to Nasty Flaps!

**walela49** · 09-12-2005, 10:06 AM

did you notice that punkrock turned off his (or her) reputation? what a wimp...man-up and take your licks!

**injunboy** · 09-12-2005, 10:41 AM

im still waiting for non navajos to don yei bi chei masks and outfits or the imfamous skinwalker "regalia". my question is how come they dont imitate navajos. it would be hilarious.

sltate · 09-12-2005, 11:38 AM

I can only speak for one situation, my dad really had a lot of respect for one particular person who was a really good friend of mine. Her name is Sharon Brokeshoulder and she and I are now sisters because my family adopted her in Oklahoma, put on a feed and gave her the right to wear our tribal dress. She wears this dress with respect and honor and makes us proud that she is a part of our family. She even uses our family song when she is asked to be head dancer. She carries that relationship with alot of love and kind consideration. I have alot of respect for her because of that. So, there are people of the Navajo nation that carry the tribal clothes and traditions given to them with great respect. "Respect" being the operative word.

**middle of the sky** · 09-12-2005, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NastyFlaps

....I'll leave you to break out the dictionary and study my passage word for word. Don't worry, my grammar is sound- unlike some who post on here... But, there's nothing worse in life than being unoriginal. Remember that.

Nasty Flaps
Navajo Nation Powwow Representive Extraordinaire

"Quit B!TCH!NG, start a REVOLUTION"

i agree with everything cept this part...i don wanna spekem the queens eeenglase

tweety_rez · 09-12-2005, 01:08 PM

You know this thread has a very SNOBBY sound to it. That is probably the thing that bothers me most about reading it, and yea I knew by the sounds the title it probably would bother me, but I came in to read it anyways.

First it seems like there are pow wow snobs that look down on others, as if they are elite and have the word on who can be and who can not be dancing. Dancing is a gift from the creator as is our life, we don't have to ask to live or dance because we were already created to do so by the almighty above.

We were also created equal. So I don't like the sounds of talking about one tribe this, one tribe that.....I was always taught that I am no better, or no worse than anyone else, I am equal and to treat others with that same understanding.

second, I know people get angry when they are disrespected, but I think that the second person sounded snobbish because of their statement about dictionary. You know? Some natives are fortuate to get an education, and when you do you should not look down upon those natives who are not as well educated. I always thought the reason we got educated was to help our people.

You know it was always our way to share, as someone else already pointed out in this thread. That was the most sensible thing that was said so far. If there is any statement that would describe us NDNS would be we Share, generosity & respect. Lets start living up to those old values!

I am for the record Omaha, please feel free to dance and celebrate life in the Arena. It is a good way. Please be respectful of your relatives, we are all related!

wildbear · 09-12-2005, 01:20 PM

IF PUNKROCK DUDE THINKS THIS THAT FINE. THERE IS ALOT OF PEOPLE THAT I HAVE RAN INTO ALL OVER INDIAN COUNTRY THAT THINKS THIS BUT DON'T WISH TO HURT ANYONE FEELINGS SO THEY SAY NOTHING. BUT AS FOR MY SELF I HAVE FRIENDS OF ALL NATIONS THAT DANCE WHAT EVER STYLE THEY WISH WITHOUT BEING ADOPTED OF GETTING PERMISION TO DUE SO AND I THINK FOR THOSE THAT WAKE UP ONE MORNING AND WANT TO BE TRADITIONAL CROW STYLE OR SOUTHERN TRADITIONAL OR NORTH EASTERN STYLE DANCERS, AND GO OUT THERE AND DON'T RESPECT THE CERTAIN WAY OF THE DANCE AND DANCE WHAT EVER WAY THEY FEEL LIKE. THEY MAKE IT HARD FOR OTHERS, TO GET APPRECIATED, FOR DANCING IN A GOOD WAY.

BUT I THINK IT LOOKS REALLY NICE WHEN YOU SEE A DINE WOMAN DANCE IN HER TRADITIONAL VELVET DRESS AND HER BEAUTIFUL TORQUOISE AND ENJOY HER PRESENTS AND I WOULD SHAKE HER HAND BECAUSE SHE IS ORIGINAL AND CONFIDENT..

DANCE WHATEVER WAY YOU WANT RESPECT THE DANCE AND RESPECT THE TRIBE YOU DISPLAY. OBOVE ALL LETS RESPECT EACH OTHER FOR THE GOOD AND THE BAD. WE ALL HAVE DRANK FROM THE SAME STREAM AT ONE TIME.

geronimo · 09-12-2005, 01:21 PM

yes, there are definitely pw snobs who look down on others and make them feel undeserving of dancing in the circle - it's the main reason i don't dance, which is sad - we should share, it's awesome, but i was also raised to believe that my specific tribal LUMBEE history/culture should always be @ the forefront - b/c once that's gone who will carry on the message of my tribe? don't get me wrong, i love a powwow, but it doesn't make me more or less indian to be involved in one - my identity comes from being Lumbee

**BurBz** · 09-12-2005, 01:32 PM

Ummmm so i want to know who PunkRock and NastyFlaps "REAL" handle is here on pws.com!

09-11-2005, 07:27 PM	#1 (permalink)
punkrock Pow Wow Visitor Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 6	what is with navajo's and southern style dancing i am so suprised that the desert indians are wanting to dance southern style if you are out there, who adopted you or who gave you the right to dance these styles. there are a few that wear otoe, kiowa, commanche, and they wear buckskins. i just want to know whats going on with this regalia business.

09-12-2005, 09:48 AM	#4 (permalink)
p_town_mami Pow-wow Goer Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: P_town Posts: 668	You go Nasty Flaps!!! __________________ The true meaning of life........ Life is all about a$$; you're either covering it, laughing it off, kicking it, kissing it, busting it, trying to get a piece of it, or behaving like one.

09-12-2005, 10:06 AM	#6 (permalink)
walela49 the legal plumes lady! Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: www.walela49.com Posts: 1,160	did you notice that punkrock turned off his (or her) reputation? what a wimp...man-up and take your licks! __________________ See my trading post ads See my photo gallery See walela49's myspace page Last edited by walela49; 09-13-2005 at 04:35 PM.

09-12-2005, 10:41 AM	#7 (permalink)
injunboy Ganado 3A North Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: nizhoni arizoni Posts: 1,687	im still waiting for non navajos to don yei bi chei masks and outfits or the imfamous skinwalker "regalia". my question is how come they dont imitate navajos. it would be hilarious. __________________ thanks dad for showing me the way, teaching me the language, and not leaving my mother...L *original XXL * jus like McSteamie

09-12-2005, 01:08 PM	#10 (permalink)
tweety_rez Tiny Tot Dancer Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 45	One thing that really bothers me about this whole thread You know this thread has a very SNOBBY sound to it. That is probably the thing that bothers me most about reading it, and yea I knew by the sounds the title it probably would bother me, but I came in to read it anyways. First it seems like there are pow wow snobs that look down on others, as if they are elite and have the word on who can be and who can not be dancing. Dancing is a gift from the creator as is our life, we don't have to ask to live or dance because we were already created to do so by the almighty above. We were also created equal. So I don't like the sounds of talking about one tribe this, one tribe that.....I was always taught that I am no better, or no worse than anyone else, I am equal and to treat others with that same understanding. second, I know people get angry when they are disrespected, but I think that the second person sounded snobbish because of their statement about dictionary. You know? Some natives are fortuate to get an education, and when you do you should not look down upon those natives who are not as well educated. I always thought the reason we got educated was to help our people. You know it was always our way to share, as someone else already pointed out in this thread. That was the most sensible thing that was said so far. If there is any statement that would describe us NDNS would be we Share, generosity & respect. Lets start living up to those old values! I am for the record Omaha, please feel free to dance and celebrate life in the Arena. It is a good way. Please be respectful of your relatives, we are all related! __________________ undefined[size=3]undefineR Tweety Rez

09-12-2005, 01:17 AM	#2 (permalink)
NastyFlaps Pow Wow Visitor Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Right here Posts: 21	Well, it seems that once again there is a brave little soul out there in powwow world that would rather type than have the courage to just ask, man to man, a simple question to a docile, humble group of people. So, since this person just decided to make a new account and a thread based on their newfound bewilderment of such an insignificant subject... I thought, I might as well do the same thing... but have some type of context to my post. To help shed some light into the darkness that you walk, I'll just tell you something I've heard since, let's see here, since birth. Don't judge a book by it's cover. To better explain, ARE YOU FLIPPING SERIOUS? Do you honestly think that us Navajos just decided to pick up the powwow lifestyle just to parade around in another tribes' regalia without knowing the background, the stories, the songs and the feelings without any regard to other Southern tribes? Come on, now! That's like comparing us to the White Trash that decide to be Injun for a weekend and put on some multicolored warbonnet and dance around inside an intertribal "feeling" Indigenous. Now, that my friend is an insult. Navajos are not hobbyists. We aren't fake. You have to understand that the adoption of Southern Dance styles have been an integral part of powwows. If someone doesn't carry it on, it will be lost and maybe gone forever. You also have to understand that there are a lot of inter tribal marriages throughout Indigenous America uniting various cultures, traditions, dance styles, designs and spirituality. There are members of Oklahoma tribes residing on Navajo land, and have been since the early days. Those people get drawn into the aura of the Navajo and find a mate and/or make friends of Navajos as well. Being the storytellers that Indigenous people are, families are told of old ways, the way everything was started, and the way they are supposed to be conducted. I believe this is a fine example of the meaning behind 'the circle of life', not just human life, but the life of powwow history. Seriously, would you rather have Whitey preaching the significance of the four directions? Or would you rather have another brother or sister with pure Indigenous blood engoring their veins telling you? There are quite a few Gourd Dance societies on the Navajo reservation that are comprised of Kiowa, Cheyenne, Otoe, Comanche, Ponca ways. The influence of Native American Church aided the adoption of certain rites. You can't say that the colors red and blue, the waterbird, and peyote belong to one specific tribe. I've held the contention that the beauty of being an Indigenous person is the ablility to share. I believe if you don't share, nothing will progress. We will be the same as we were in the old days, one tribe warring against another. The thought of one tribe being better than another tribe aided Whitey to take over our land and have the audacity to tax us for the land they stole. Rather than fighting and bickering, we should unite one way or another to regain our land. We should pool money generated by Indian casinos to pay for the best lawyers to legally take our land back. Since you brought up the "regalia business", I must throw in my two bits. Creativity is bliss. Ingornance is hit or miss. A lot of Navajo powwow regalia may resemble designs of another tribe, consider that a TRIBUTE. We aren't trying to show you up in any way. We are in some way thanking you for your influence to express ourselves through dance. Designs are designs, take them for what they are. If they happen to resemble one tribe's designs, whoop dee doo for you, buddy. You can't tell me that designs are mandated to one tribe. If that is the case, then WHICH TRIBE OWNS THE MEDICINE WHEEL? Are you going to sue our ancestors that etched horses and geometric patterns in the wall just because yours did too? We are Indigenous people, we are all related. So brother (or sister), you wanna sue a Navajo for using geometric designs? Then sue all the Navajo rug weavers that have used geometric designs since the beginning of time. You won't hear a Navajo cry bloody murder if they see an OK dancer wearing geometric designs. Why? Because we aren't incipid and we won't point fingers, only our lips. One last thing. I swear. I believe that your complaint, or whatever the flip you wanna call it, would only hold bearing at a TRADITIONAL "Traditional" POWWOW. However, nowadays, we have COMPETITION powwows. And I have NEVER seen a set of Powwow rules that state: "All designs and dance styles must correspond to the dancer's Tribal Affiliation." Competing at a competition powwow is a business. Females, being females, must have the lastest, phattest fabric or tri cut beads. And their designs have to be 'wicked' or 'tough' or 'bomb'. Most of the designs dancers where nowadays, originate the same way dance styles originated: in dreams. Sometimes, all you have to do is close your eyes and BAM! you have a new design. Other times, you have to look at something or someone to get "inspiration" for your creativity. Should fancy shawl dancers pay royalties to every butterfly they see? Should Male Northern Traditional dancers go back in time to pay royalties to warriors who fought in territorial battles? I'll leave you to break out the dictionary and study my passage word for word. Don't worry, my grammar is sound- unlike some who post on here... But, there's nothing worse in life than being unoriginal. Remember that. Nasty Flaps Navajo Nation Powwow Representive Extraordinaire "Quit B!TCH!NG, start a REVOLUTION"

09-12-2005, 11:38 AM	#8 (permalink)
sltate Senior Dancer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: apache,ok Posts: 562	I can only speak for one situation, my dad really had a lot of respect for one particular person who was a really good friend of mine. Her name is Sharon Brokeshoulder and she and I are now sisters because my family adopted her in Oklahoma, put on a feed and gave her the right to wear our tribal dress. She wears this dress with respect and honor and makes us proud that she is a part of our family. She even uses our family song when she is asked to be head dancer. She carries that relationship with alot of love and kind consideration. I have alot of respect for her because of that. So, there are people of the Navajo nation that carry the tribal clothes and traditions given to them with great respect. "Respect" being the operative word.

09-12-2005, 01:20 PM	#11 (permalink)
wildbear wildbear Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: on turtle island Posts: 105	His Thread Is Rude To An Limit IF PUNKROCK DUDE THINKS THIS THAT FINE. THERE IS ALOT OF PEOPLE THAT I HAVE RAN INTO ALL OVER INDIAN COUNTRY THAT THINKS THIS BUT DON'T WISH TO HURT ANYONE FEELINGS SO THEY SAY NOTHING. BUT AS FOR MY SELF I HAVE FRIENDS OF ALL NATIONS THAT DANCE WHAT EVER STYLE THEY WISH WITHOUT BEING ADOPTED OF GETTING PERMISION TO DUE SO AND I THINK FOR THOSE THAT WAKE UP ONE MORNING AND WANT TO BE TRADITIONAL CROW STYLE OR SOUTHERN TRADITIONAL OR NORTH EASTERN STYLE DANCERS, AND GO OUT THERE AND DON'T RESPECT THE CERTAIN WAY OF THE DANCE AND DANCE WHAT EVER WAY THEY FEEL LIKE. THEY MAKE IT HARD FOR OTHERS, TO GET APPRECIATED, FOR DANCING IN A GOOD WAY. BUT I THINK IT LOOKS REALLY NICE WHEN YOU SEE A DINE WOMAN DANCE IN HER TRADITIONAL VELVET DRESS AND HER BEAUTIFUL TORQUOISE AND ENJOY HER PRESENTS AND I WOULD SHAKE HER HAND BECAUSE SHE IS ORIGINAL AND CONFIDENT.. DANCE WHATEVER WAY YOU WANT RESPECT THE DANCE AND RESPECT THE TRIBE YOU DISPLAY. OBOVE ALL LETS RESPECT EACH OTHER FOR THE GOOD AND THE BAD. WE ALL HAVE DRANK FROM THE SAME STREAM AT ONE TIME.

09-12-2005, 01:21 PM	#12 (permalink)
geronimo Junior Dancer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Tarheel State Posts: 242	yes, there are definitely pw snobs who look down on others and make them feel undeserving of dancing in the circle - it's the main reason i don't dance, which is sad - we should share, it's awesome, but i was also raised to believe that my specific tribal LUMBEE history/culture should always be @ the forefront - b/c once that's gone who will carry on the message of my tribe? don't get me wrong, i love a powwow, but it doesn't make me more or less indian to be involved in one - my identity comes from being Lumbee __________________ No one can make you feel inferior w/o your consent-Eleanor Roosevelt

09-12-2005, 01:32 PM	#13 (permalink)
BurBz Dineth Hearth Throth Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: AZ Posts: 13,900	Ummmm so i want to know who PunkRock and NastyFlaps "REAL" handle is here on pws.com!