ndneyez

Oh my gosh! I love this thread!....lol

I dance women's tradishs so getting on beat is pretty crucial. There's not really any way to play it off because it's pretty obvious when you start off wrong! Trust me, I've been guilty of this more times that I'd like to admit.....but I do "fix it" on the downbeats!....lol

But to be serious, I've learned how important it is to get on beat and to stay on beat. When I judge that's what I look for. I don't judge on beadwork or name alone! It's really unfair when I see this happen and it does happen all the time! We can't fool ourselves and say we don't notice it when we're judging...because we do. The difference is those of us who are honest enough to judge fairly!

With that said, I also know that there are drums that have "off" days or are just plain terrible! We all know what I'm talking about! Those of that dance and have a drum and their beat skips around................Admit it!! We hate it!....lol This is where it is so important to have judges that know what to both look and listen for.

Ojibway05

I know what you mean Big gurl brain! I had to judge a ladies fancy crow this past summer and I had to ask someone what to look for I feel the same way when I watch women's jingle too though. I kinda gasp when I see some of the ladies dance, (and the ones who place) its evolved into fancy dance.

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Kakeeya

I thought I'd post so I could get more bad rep from all my haters on this thread... Really geez just grow up.

I've been powwowing for a long time and have had to judge many contests. Usually if my friends and or family are dancing then I ask to be excused, I don't ever judge based on popularity or who has the prettiest outfit etc., theres a lot of criteria that a person has to possess before I mark them on my ballot. If a person dances offbeat, I watch to see how graceful they get back on beat again.

So whoever thinks I'm an unfair judge, you obviously don't know me and read my posts wrong.

jumpingbuffalo

I didn't get to read the whole thread buuuuut I have a comment...I see this a bit and since I've been judging a lil more usual lately, I remember thinking a few times "Whoa that person is off beat real bad" but then realized from my dancing experience that I remember I was accused of that one time by a fren o mine during a contest song and after thinking about it I replied, "No, I was dead on." Soooo in comes the science...aaaand the SPPEEEED OF SOUNNND...
Judge the distance from the drum to the dancer and yourself....you'll notice that ESPECIALLY W/ PA Systems that they may be right on by your ears & the processing of that sound by your brain AND if you have a keen sense of timing you may realize that dancer IS in fact Right On.

This is my own evaluation of this scenario. Not all dancers can use this to defend them. But I have heard dancers complain about reverb and Echo's by a PA system and worse yet Sucky PA systems VS the actual drums boom and then of course other drums that aren't singing but practicing yet it's still loud enough to throw the dancer, AD pls step in!

Hokaaah yeah.

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churrakeesweetheart

here is my nickle's worth... a person can have the most beautiful footwork, shawl-work, dance all smooth... none of it matters if this person can't keep time. when judging...say... jr. girls fancy or jingle, sometimes all little girls are about the same level of experience. i look for the one who stays on the right beat the longest. those are the ones who have the most potential, in my eyes. granted at that age, they ALL have potential. but there is a buddy of mine, my sister and i have watched him over the years... we say, "he stayed on beat most of the time..." or else, "dang, he danced off-beat all weekend,,," when he been dancing for 15 years!! we wonder honestly if he will ever learn, seems maybe he should have by now... rhythm, i think, is something that you have already, i don't know if it can be acquired. same as some people can sing, others can't. some can play basketball, some can't. (i know I can't, lol...) some people can keep time, others just can't. i know of another example, a guy who been dancing since he was walking... he's grown now, loves to dance, STILL has no sense of time whatsoever... but he loves dancing, how a dancer should love dancing. he's out there EVERY. SINGLE. INTERTRIBAL. that's where the judging line gets faded... you know? but since this isn't a thread about judging... or is it? i dunno, i forgot now...lol. some people love to dance but have no rhythm. it's perplexing,..

ndnMSW

I agree with churrakeesweetheart. I know of at least a few champion dancers who cannot keep time to save their lives. Love dancing, bless their hearts, but are unable to keep time. I remember a long time ago, my adopted uncle was telling me how he admired one dancer and their dancing. I asked him if he'd ever watched this dancers feet to see if the dancer was keeping time, because every time I watched this dancer, the dancer was way out of time. The next time I saw my uncle he said, "You were right, I never noticed it before." My guess is that judges get caught up watching how the dancer's outfit moves, watch their arm movements, or other things and neglect to watch the dancers feet.

I love watching people who love to dance regardless of whether they are in time or not. It is however a little confusing to me how some dancers win consistently when they are very rarely in time. And I'm not talking about dancing on the "off-beat" out of time. To me that is understandable on some occasions or with some dance styles of different tribes. I'm talking about the drum having one beat and the dancer dancing either way slower or faster than that beat. Those are the dancers I'm talking about that win that in my opinion can't keep time. It gets kind of tricky I guess for some judges though who may watch that dancer for the few beats that they are "in-time", but then don't see them for the rest of the song when they are out of time.

ndnMSW

I remember one year dancing contest up at Schemitzun and our song seemed to keep changing beat. It was tough to stay on the "on" beat because it seemed to keep changing. That's tough to dance to, but we were still able to keep in time with the beat of the drum, if that makes any sense(meaning most of us didin't get behind or ahead of the beat, we just couldn't find the "on" beat.......lol).

I remember too after that, Vern from Pipestone Creek approached me and asked me about that contest song they sang and asked if I had trouble with the song. He asked if I kept hearing a "double beat" all through it. I told him I did, that I had a little trouble with it, but thought it might just be me. He explained to me that the PA speakers were real close to where the microphone was being held, so the mic was picking up the beat from the speaker in addition to the beat from the drum, so that's why the song sounded like that. He apologized to me and said he was worried that might happen, but would work with the sound people to fix that. So I guess that's something to take into consideration too when judging a dance contest, like jumpingbuffalo said.

Christmas Snow

this is a good thread!

churrakeesweetheart

heehee, what about singers? they have to have a sense of time and the best ears for rhythmn in the business... and there are like one or two of em who get out there and dance like, intertribal, or honor song and they re off beat! and look like they are dancing to their own mental little song... that's funny. i bet that song in their head is the prettiest song anyone has ever heard tho, right? ... you know what tho. crazy pats on the back for anyone who dances just cuz they like to...off-beat or not...long live the trail...

ndnMSW

Lol....that reminds of one time again up at Schemitzun. My honey and I were watching our video tape of one of the men's contests and one dancer was dancing WAAAYYYY faster than the drum......but about halfway through the song he got tired and started to slow down and THEN he was dancing in time with the drum......lol. He did look like he was enjoying himself though, dancing hard, so I guess that's what counts.

MAD SKILLZ

Can you put that name back in there....so we can see who it is.....LOL!

MAD SKILLZ

I like watching jingle and tradish......when some are off-beat.....LOL!! Looks like a teeter-totter!!!

Kakeeya

"wahhhhhh....you must be sooooo popular!"

This was on one of my reps, but whoever gave it to me didn't have enough to make it red so it was only grey Too damn funny and childish but I am pretty sure I know who she is

3StarsWoman

rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrah!
Kitty kats
let's stick to the thread and not chase it like a bunch of fiesty skat kats after a ball of string.
It's great discussion aside from the hissing.

scorpiostwin11_76