off beat - Page 3

**jones** · 08-18-2005, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreams4u

I feel like that IF THE DRUM can stay on beat themselves! But at the same time judges should know what to look for. I move around when I judge. Better yet, have a song for the judges to see if they can dance and know what they're doing!!!! Wouldn't that be a switch? I know of a jingle dancer that dances the same speed and off beat no matter what the beat of the drum is and still wins. I've heard some complaints and asking for another song was legit so it works both ways. I applaud those dancers that disqualify themselves when they mess up. That's one of the ugly things about this point sytem. I'll probably get slammed for my views but...............

that's a good idea. Doesn't it annoy you to have a judge you know has NEVER danced, sing or anything in their life? Not that they can't be a good judge, but they have no idea what it takes to keep up the footwork to a lousey song or song that's speeding up, let alone the weight of the beadwork you're wearing, etc.

Pvt Butter · 08-19-2005, 12:43 AM

So if you are posting "who's ur favorite dancer" it's alright to name names, but if you are analyzing dance styles, syncopation, rhythm and beat you cannot name names.

hmmm, wasn't like I bashed anyone's character or said anything mean about anyone. I didn't say someone was mean or trashy - just that they don't keep the beat when they dance. I didn't even say that they can't keep the beat when they dance, just that they don't and that contradicts the dance protocol I learned since I could learn.

Sorry to the feelings I hurt. Thank you to those who see what I see.

One side of the coin is fav dancer, the other side is least fav.

I dance hard and with all my heart. When I judge, I take everything into consideration, but first and foremost I look at the dancers timing. I'd pick a dancer with no beadwork who was kicking butt in time to the drum with killer moves over a "b" lister with mediocre beadwork who doesn't keep up with the drum. However, if this other person kept up with the drum, then they would definitely have my vote b/c they have awright moves.

now I see what it takes to win. It's not how good you dance, but who you party with.

And now I will be penalized for speaking my mind.

dreams4u · 08-19-2005, 04:34 PM

**chazziff** · 08-19-2005, 05:33 PM

guess it all comes down to the AD who actually picks the judges...and the tabulators who tally the numbers to weed out these judges who continually pick dancer who are so the speak not up the par or all smoke and mirrors...pick people who will actually look at the dancers as a whole not just a part or on size - irks me when taller children who can't dance well beat out smaller children who can dance well...

it is quite annoying to see people beat out other dancers becuase of their name or regalia - over people who dance hard and who might not have the cash to really put into their regalia (let's face it - IT IS VERY EXPENSIVE)...

then people might say it comes down to the whole picture - did this person put the time into their regalia and keep beat and have footwork opposed to the guy/girl with the cut bead everythang and satin this and that and all the sequins in the world and who couldn't find the bead to save their life - and to boot they're a nice guy/girl to everyone they meet....

Mato Winyan · 08-19-2005, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jones

You have to look and compare dancers too, so you aren't focusing on one dancer at a time. I do that whether I'm judging with a ballot or looking on from the sidelines. When the song stops, how can you tell which dancer stops on time or oversteps if you are looking at each dancer singularly. You have to focus on them for a few seconds - undivided, but you need to see the whole picture too. An offbeat dancers stands out because they are bobbing when everyone else is weaving.

Sorry......didn't mean to give the impression that one would be singled out and looked at the whole time when I said..... pick one out of a crowd.... I meant....when the are all bunched up you can't look at one to see how they were compared to others.
When I judge I move..... look at them at a whole then try to see if any stand out......... if I see any....... then I try to keep an eye on them.........I move........scan the crowd again to see if any are on the mark now but just had a slow start. (And yeah......I always watch for the "bobbers".)

when it comes to last beat............ I have the ones I've been watching and try to get them all in view and try to make sure I'm at a good angle to see if any over step. That is when sometimes we need the second song just to take the ones that seemed to stand out from the crowd to see what they can do then. Hope that clears it up for ya.

**ac_miss** · 08-20-2005, 12:03 AM

**ac_miss** · 08-20-2005, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janell

So if you are posting "who's ur favorite dancer" it's alright to name names, but if you are analyzing dance styles, syncopation, rhythm and beat you cannot name names.

My thoughts exactly!

Mato Winyan · 08-20-2005, 10:47 AM

biggurlbrain · 08-21-2005, 04:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nezbah

LOL......only if there was a perfect powwow world.....

It used to be that if you missed a beat or overstepped a beat that you would have to disqualify yourself or give up like your bustle or something. That was considered the honorable way. But this hasn't been seen in some time. I remember a post from last year that someone was dancing, he overstepped a beat then took off his bustle and honored another younger person with that bustle. And I think I remember in this year's GON in the Men's grassdance special I believe it was Darrell (correct me if I am wrong) that had missed a beat and he removed himself from the contest. But the judges and the committee made him continue to dance, then he won. Even though it was not his fault and to the discretion of the judges/family/committee, it was nice to see a dancer do the 'honorable' way. I remember pointing out to my son, thats how your suppose to be, if you miss a beat you disqualify yourself. Am I wrong? I dunno, that's the way I was taught. I just wish there were more dancers out there that care more about this than 'winning' or 'money'. *S*. Like I said.......if there was a perfect powwow world....LOL

i remember that. it's been quite awhile since i've seen anything like that happen. used to be that if anything fell off your outfit it meant automatic disqualification for that round. i mean like a braid tie or bells, not the feathers. i was much too young to understand how the actual contest was determined though! lol for sure now most powwows do point system which is the main reason lots of people race to first grand entry because it is the most points.

Pvt Butter · 08-21-2005, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by biggurlbrain

i remember that. it's been quite awhile since i've seen anything like that happen. used to be that if anything fell off your outfit it meant automatic disqualification for that round. i mean like a braid tie or bells, not the feathers. i was much too young to understand how the actual contest was determined though! lol for sure now most powwows do point system which is the main reason lots of people race to first grand entry because it is the most points.

maybe dancers were better and the race was so tight that it took disqualification to determine the winner???? Or maybe people didn't depend on powwowing for paycheck and/or the level of competitor/judge integrity was different. All I remember is that offbeat dancing was rookie and was a phase that was eventually outgrown.

kiiyaaniiasdzaa · 09-01-2005, 09:18 AM

It's not fair when they win; the one that really takes the cake is they stop early, like during the 3rd push up!! I've seen many do that?
I guess its how popular you are,the more your known...more dough!!

buckskin pantyhose · 09-01-2005, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Singerdad

Don't Crow male dancers dance what we would consider "off the beat"? I'm not saying they can't keep beat, I'm saying that's how they dance isn't it?

Also, not cool to name a dancer publically and say she can't keep a beat. I've seen her dance plenty of times and she's always been in beat. Maybe you caught her on an off day.

YES! Very true Singerdad, Crows do dance "off beat"....it's been that way for as long as i've known. I've also noticed there are some natives up in canada that dance round dance on the off beat, and that's their style.

I think it's important for people who are judging to be well rounded & knowledgeable of these kinds of things. Then again the competition powwow has changed a lot & has set up rules across the board that people judge on regardless of the specifics of a style.....conformity at it's finest!

example: i was at a powwow where the MC was talking about womens traditional & stated that ALL women dancers raise their fan on the honor beats which is NOT TRUE....well the judges went by that statement, & that just goes to show they had no clue what they were judging on in the 1st place!

**injunboy** · 09-01-2005, 04:22 PM

hey we should implement a *strike a pose* rule for the last beat. lol, some nuts, women and men will tap their foot or something cheezy on the last beat and keep walking. lol, *just in case* it wasnt the last beat. i seen all kinds of things that are semi cheating. like posing but keep their heads moving... hey dammit! you cant do that...! or theyll pretend to take a loooong step like it was intentionial. or the imfamous short short pause and keep moving thing. then act all nonchalant while you head for the water or line up.

cheeeezzy man.

08-19-2005, 12:43 AM	#42 (permalink)
Pvt Butter pancake flipper Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 890	This Makes No Sense So if you are posting "who's ur favorite dancer" it's alright to name names, but if you are analyzing dance styles, syncopation, rhythm and beat you cannot name names. hmmm, wasn't like I bashed anyone's character or said anything mean about anyone. I didn't say someone was mean or trashy - just that they don't keep the beat when they dance. I didn't even say that they can't keep the beat when they dance, just that they don't and that contradicts the dance protocol I learned since I could learn. Sorry to the feelings I hurt. Thank you to those who see what I see. One side of the coin is fav dancer, the other side is least fav. I dance hard and with all my heart. When I judge, I take everything into consideration, but first and foremost I look at the dancers timing. I'd pick a dancer with no beadwork who was kicking butt in time to the drum with killer moves over a "b" lister with mediocre beadwork who doesn't keep up with the drum. However, if this other person kept up with the drum, then they would definitely have my vote b/c they have awright moves. now I see what it takes to win. It's not how good you dance, but who you party with. And now I will be penalized for speaking my mind. Last edited by Janell; 08-19-2005 at 12:49 AM. Reason: too busy dancing in beat

08-19-2005, 04:34 PM	#43 (permalink)
dreams4u dreams4u Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 92	Last edited by dreams4u; 02-09-2006 at 04:15 PM.

08-19-2005, 05:33 PM	#44 (permalink)
chazziff YO!! Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 6,741	guess it all comes down to the AD who actually picks the judges...and the tabulators who tally the numbers to weed out these judges who continually pick dancer who are so the speak not up the par or all smoke and mirrors...pick people who will actually look at the dancers as a whole not just a part or on size - irks me when taller children who can't dance well beat out smaller children who can dance well... it is quite annoying to see people beat out other dancers becuase of their name or regalia - over people who dance hard and who might not have the cash to really put into their regalia (let's face it - IT IS VERY EXPENSIVE)... then people might say it comes down to the whole picture - did this person put the time into their regalia and keep beat and have footwork opposed to the guy/girl with the cut bead everythang and satin this and that and all the sequins in the world and who couldn't find the bead to save their life - and to boot they're a nice guy/girl to everyone they meet.... __________________ Kiya now - ona kitaskinow Namoya oma pemmican - kapapakwa sa ma kowiya

08-20-2005, 12:03 AM	#46 (permalink)
ac_miss Beading Mad Woman Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Texas Posts: 3,091 Blog Entries: 3	__________________ Bead All You Can Bead Last edited by ac_miss; 08-20-2005 at 12:25 AM.

08-20-2005, 10:47 AM	#48 (permalink)
Mato Winyan Gangster of Love Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Indiana Posts: 5,500 Blog Entries: 4	__________________ "We see it as a desecration not only of a mountain but of our way of life. This is a genocidal issue to us. If they kill this mountain, they kill our way of life." ~Debra White Plume

09-01-2005, 09:18 AM	#51 (permalink)
kiiyaaniiasdzaa Jing-a-ling Shook-shook Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 434	off beat dancers It's not fair when they win; the one that really takes the cake is they stop early, like during the 3rd push up!! I've seen many do that? I guess its how popular you are,the more your known...more dough!!

09-01-2005, 04:22 PM	#53 (permalink)
injunboy Ganado 3A North Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: nizhoni arizoni Posts: 1,687	hey we should implement a strike a pose rule for the last beat. lol, some nuts, women and men will tap their foot or something cheezy on the last beat and keep walking. lol, just in case it wasnt the last beat. i seen all kinds of things that are semi cheating. like posing but keep their heads moving... hey dammit! you cant do that...! or theyll pretend to take a loooong step like it was intentionial. or the imfamous short short pause and keep moving thing. then act all nonchalant while you head for the water or line up. cheeeezzy man. __________________ thanks dad for showing me the way, teaching me the language, and not leaving my mother...L *original XXL * jus like McSteamie