Table Mountain Powwow

**50cal** · 06-14-2004, 08:50 PM

Did anyone go to this powwow??? What did you think of it? I know it was this past weekend (June 11-13), but I was curious on everyones thoughts on it.......

HOKAHEYGUY · 06-14-2004, 09:33 PM

I think the powwow was no good it was hot dancers were falling cuz of the heat.and they drag the powwow too long and didint even know what the crap they were doing with the drum contest.Man the dust was allful didint even water it down.Then they got the same princess as last year it was fix .they didnt even get all the dancers food .they turn down a little girl dancer cuz she didint have a food band how dumb is that.I will never go again that powwow is full of crap

**50cal** · 06-14-2004, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HOKAHEYGUY

I think the powwow was no good it was hot dancers were falling cuz of the heat.and they drag the powwow too long and didint even know what the crap they were doing with the drum contest.Man the dust was allful didint even water it down.Then they got the same princess as last year it was fix .they didnt even get all the dancers food .they turn down a little girl dancer cuz she didint have a food band how dumb is that.I will never go again that powwow is full of crap

Wow, I went but I didn't know they turned a little girl from the food. What crap! That did sucked though ennit? About the dust, and the heat???? I say about 6 or 7 dancers had to be treated by EMT's...that was really stupid and they decided to have 2 contest songs on sunday for the adults, in the heat....as for the drum contest, what do you mean they didn't know what they were doing? I sang there and I'm wondering......

Grizzly · 06-14-2004, 11:07 PM

:?????:
Yeah, I'm curious about the drum contest thing... What drums showed up and who all placed? Inquiring minds wanna know.. LOL

**50cal** · 06-15-2004, 12:30 AM

Drums: Blackstone, Rocky Park, Smoky Creek, Red Sands, Southern Express, red buffalo, Green River, Spirit Ground and some others that I can't remember...
Results: 1. red buffalo 2. southern Express 3. buckshot ramblers

from what I hear there was some real shady stuff going on with the head drum judge and some others, like drums that should have placed didn't and those that did were messing up their contest songs and alsoo they change some of the drum rules like having a certain minimum of singers for one thing. We had called a week before then a couple of days before and we were told that the minimum was 4 singers, well when we showed up friday, we were told we could only enter the contest unless we had 7 singers, so we had to scramble around looking for singers......Oh well....for sure, this is definately one powwow I am not going back to. Not only did they not care for their dancers as they should have but they didn't really try to take care of their grounds. They also had no way to accomadate people who were camping there by providing showers or something. Their EMT's were taking their sweet time getting to people who were passing out or collapsing (even though most of it was their own responsibility, they should have been drinking lots and lots of water) they still did not have that quick response others usually do.....

HOKAHEYGUY · 06-15-2004, 01:32 AM

What was worng with the drum contest is i got to look at the drum rules book it says nothing about haveing 7 singers this old man named hershel was the main drum guy and he was changing everything they should put on the flyer you must have 7 singers.then they say if you were not here on friday then u miss out on points/. man some drums got to work or school.the powwow didint know what the hell they were doing

westcoast_player · 06-15-2004, 01:42 AM

To me i think this powwow was a dud it was to hot and dusty. and to me i Think since the powwow was so dang hot they should of choped it down a little not drag it. so dont know if i'll ever go bak to this powwow

**50cal** · 06-15-2004, 03:37 AM

yeah the whole thing was jacked up.......oh well, what can you do but move on and hope you don't get screwed at the next one........keeep ya heads up!!!!! like I said I am not going back next year.......we're just glad that some of our singers that danced, placed in their respective categories....they deserved it.........we just wished we got some gas money...like the other casino powwows.....LOL.........

OneNativeMom · 06-15-2004, 09:13 PM

Oh I went to the powwow at Table Mountain casino and I have some stuff to say!
For one thing it was really hot, like many powwows here in Cali but the water was in a ice chest on the MC stand you had to walk way over there and get it yourself or drink hot gateraid, at least it was hot when I went over and got some in their tiny casino cups! You had to stand there like cows at a water hole to get enough fluids in. People were dropping like flies, and the medics took forever to get to them. But people didn't care, one girl was jirking in the arena from a sezure or something and they were like, well ok while she's getting help lets get on with the contest!! Oh yeah like people want to dance around someone who is laying there, probably embarrased and scared, but the powwow must go on.
The Drum contest was screwed up. They never mentioned on their flyers that you had to have 7 singers and that contesting started on Friday, we got a call on friday from a friend saying all the rules are changing as they go along. That was crazy. All the drums were pretty good, but there was some that should of placed, like Rocky Park, they were pretty good. And none of the drums got any kind of gas money which wasn't cool, since they held everyone there til like 8:30 on Sunday. They made everyone contest on dancing saturday and again in the heat on sunday, I pulled my kids out and didn't let them finish their contesting, they are more important to me than their show!
I'm still tasting dirt from the powwow, you think they could water it all down! We won't go back, nope not ever! Unless they paid us for staff LOL. And maybe not even that.
Oh yeah and that Princess contest was a joke. Two of our friends daughters ran for princess, first they were told they were the only ones LOL way later they were told the out going princess was running again and had sold a few thousand $, so like get your butts in gear and sell some more! Some of these girls worked hard, but the old princess won, everyone else was given a what? a hand shake and see you later! Not even a dang rose or something for their hundreds of dollars they made for them. And many were talking it was all fixed because the Table mountain people favored her, must be nice huh.
Ran into a elder at the gas station on the way home and we were told they, the elders from the color guards were given a few dollars for their time there. Even though they were asked to be there all weekend in the heat. Gee these are our vets!! have some respect please!
It's a casino powwow you think they would be more careing and generous, they have the funds!
What really pissed me off was when I heard a jingle dancer went to get her meal with the certain color wrist band was not alowed to take her tiny tots sister in to get food because she had a different color wrist band, she had to leave her while she got her food in a gated canopy? is that Crazy? We are family, we eat together as family, come on people what you doing over there at table mountain? These are our children, you don't turn away a kid from food!!!!!!
Lets wake up and remember what we are doing, powwow should be fun and a time to share and reunite with family and friends, not money money money and show show show!
Hope some one wakes them up over there!
One Native Mom

bigyellowbear49 · 06-16-2004, 12:48 AM

" Drums: Blackstone, Rocky Park, Smoky Creek, Red Sands, Southern Express, red buffalo, Green River, Spirit Ground and some others that I can't remember...
Results: 1. red buffalo 2. southern Express 3. buckshot ramblers

from what I hear there was some real shady stuff going on with the head drum judge and some others, like drums that should have placed didn't and those that did were messing up their contest songs and also they change some of the drum r
ules like having a certain minimum of singers for one thing."
I would like to respond to some of these allegations. First off, there was plenty of water. There were 244 cases of water with 24 in each case given away by the committee. Granted, you had to go to the speaker stand to get it. It was hot, but not miserable, like Soboba, Morongo, Barona, or even some of the Okla powwows.

Response time for EMT's was poor. That needs to be addressed, but numerous people offered solutions to the committee.

The female dancer had a hypoglycemic attack. As I recall, no one asked for the next contest until the female was determined to be free of distress. She refused to go to the hospital and any further medical treatment. The other female was dehydrated. as was the male singer.

As for the drum contest, and the head drum judge........ in my opinion it was as fair as it could be considering Table Mountain normally leans more toward northern drums. The judges were chosen by the committee, not the head drum judge. The head judge was threatened with termination if he did not comply with their wishes. In addition, the committee performed all the tabulations, including the drum contest. The judges were selected from the host and invited host drums. It was a points contest. As for 7 singers being the requirement, everyone met it except for 2 drums. Fri night was a requirement of 4 singers to qualify for the contest. Points were given to the drums there on Fri, ready to sing. The flyer stated the powwow started Fri. A lot of singers on the drums Fri worked, but showed up anyway.

As for fairness of contest, that is something which needs addressing to the committee. I, for one, enjoyed myself, somewhat. There appeared to be too much disorganization and they did drag it out. Also, there was no reason to have 2 contest songs for each category on a hot Sun afternoon.

All these issues should be addressed by the committee in order for it to become a better powwow. All this griping and crying does not improve or change anything on powwows.com. Voice your concerns to the committee. After all, having a good powwow is the goal, is it not??? Crying about judging, head judges, the weather, is all redundant. All you can do is move on to the next powwow. You win some and you lose some. All the winners at Table Mountain are usually winners everywhere else, with the exception of the drum contest. What makes this dance worse than any of the others?

Just my opinion.

**50cal** · 06-16-2004, 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigyellowbear49

" .

All these issues should be addressed by the committee in order for it to become a better powwow. All this griping and crying does not improve or change anything on powwows.com. Voice your concerns to the committee. After all, having a good powwow is the goal, is it not??? Crying about judging, head judges, the weather, is all redundant. All you can do is move on to the next powwow. You win some and you lose some. All the winners at Table Mountain are usually winners everywhere else, with the exception of the drum contest. What makes this dance worse than any of the others?

Just my opinion.

Did anyone say they were crying??? Maybe you were a part of the committee???? Just like you, we don't know what really happened, even though we were there......most people felt that the drum contest was rigged because on the rules it said no drum hopping at any time till the contest was over....A lot of people saw singers from the Host southern sitting in with both 1st and 2nd place winners.....now you tell me was that fair???? Either way, no way on God's green earth am I going back to this powwow....and if you feel offended by my words maybe you should take it to the committee???? Just my opinion..

**50cal** · 06-16-2004, 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigyellowbear49

" As for the drum contest, and the head drum judge........ in my opinion it was as fair as it could be considering Table Mountain normally leans more toward northern drums. The judges were chosen by the committee, not the head drum judge. The head judge was threatened with termination if he did not comply with their wishes. In addition, the committee performed all the tabulations, including the drum contest. The judges were selected from the host and invited host drums. It was a points contest. As for 7 singers being the requirement, everyone met it except for 2 drums. Fri night was a requirement of 4 singers to qualify for the contest. Points were given to the drums there on Fri, ready to sing. The flyer stated the powwow started Fri. A lot of singers on the drums Fri worked, but showed up anyway.

As.

See, like I said, we called a week before and were told that 4 singers was the minimum. So we called again on wednesday and thursday and we're told the same thing.....Now after all this, then showing up on friday only to be told, the only way to enter the contest was with 7 singers, do you think that was fair??? I, for one, do not think so. Like you said just my opinion......

**50cal** · 06-16-2004, 01:15 AM

and one more thing, since we're speaking of fairness....was it fair to the princess contestants that the same one was chosen again???? Usually most powwows do not allow the current princess to run again....Now was that fair????

bigyellowbear49 · 06-16-2004, 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 50calNDN

Did anyone say they were crying??? Maybe you were a part of the committee???? Just like you, we don't know what really happened, even though we were there......most people felt that the drum contest was rigged because on the rules it said no drum hopping at any time till the contest was over....A lot of people saw singers from the Host southern sitting in with both 1st and 2nd place winners.....now you tell me was that fair???? Either way, no way on God's green earth am I going back to this powwow....and if you feel offended by my words maybe you should take it to the committee???? Just my opinion..

I am not part of the committee, for one thing. I'm not even with the "in crowd" over there. It sounded like crying to me........they didn't win, I didn't win, it was rigged, boo hoo, boo hoo....... it was too hot, the gatorade was warm, no water, drum hopping (which there was no one from the host southern drum sitting or singing with the first place drum group at any time UNTIL the contest was over on Sun PM.)

The first place drum didn't even think they placed when third and second were announced. They were just as surprised as anyone else. They were packing up to leave when the 1st place group was announced. They thought Green River or Rocky Point won.

I'm sure the committee couldn't care less whether you or I return, or not.

I did go to the committee and told them my thoughts on making it a better powwow. Did you?

I don't get offended. What's the use? It doesn't accomplish a thing. Complaints about not winning, not placing, and powwow conditions only makes you sound like a cry baby.

06-14-2004, 08:50 PM	#1 (permalink)
50cal Natural Born Killer...... Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Looking for some bad guys... Posts: 7,777	Table Mountain Powwow Did anyone go to this powwow??? What did you think of it? I know it was this past weekend (June 11-13), but I was curious on everyones thoughts on it....... __________________ "Sweat dries, blood clots, bones heal. Suck it up. Be a Marine"

06-14-2004, 11:07 PM	#4 (permalink)
Grizzly ~Hón-wungwa~ Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: AZ Posts: 802	Table Mountain Powwow.. :?????: Yeah, I'm curious about the drum contest thing... What drums showed up and who all placed? Inquiring minds wanna know.. LOL

06-15-2004, 12:30 AM	#5 (permalink)
50cal Natural Born Killer...... Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Looking for some bad guys... Posts: 7,777	Drums: Blackstone, Rocky Park, Smoky Creek, Red Sands, Southern Express, red buffalo, Green River, Spirit Ground and some others that I can't remember... Results: 1. red buffalo 2. southern Express 3. buckshot ramblers from what I hear there was some real shady stuff going on with the head drum judge and some others, like drums that should have placed didn't and those that did were messing up their contest songs and alsoo they change some of the drum rules like having a certain minimum of singers for one thing. We had called a week before then a couple of days before and we were told that the minimum was 4 singers, well when we showed up friday, we were told we could only enter the contest unless we had 7 singers, so we had to scramble around looking for singers......Oh well....for sure, this is definately one powwow I am not going back to. Not only did they not care for their dancers as they should have but they didn't really try to take care of their grounds. They also had no way to accomadate people who were camping there by providing showers or something. Their EMT's were taking their sweet time getting to people who were passing out or collapsing (even though most of it was their own responsibility, they should have been drinking lots and lots of water) they still did not have that quick response others usually do..... __________________ "Sweat dries, blood clots, bones heal. Suck it up. Be a Marine"

06-15-2004, 03:37 AM	#8 (permalink)
50cal Natural Born Killer...... Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Looking for some bad guys... Posts: 7,777	yeah the whole thing was jacked up.......oh well, what can you do but move on and hope you don't get screwed at the next one........keeep ya heads up!!!!! like I said I am not going back next year.......we're just glad that some of our singers that danced, placed in their respective categories....they deserved it.........we just wished we got some gas money...like the other casino powwows.....LOL......... __________________ "Sweat dries, blood clots, bones heal. Suck it up. Be a Marine"

06-15-2004, 09:13 PM	#9 (permalink)
OneNativeMom Pow Wow Visitor Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: In Ndn country Duh! Posts: 3	not happy at Table Mountain powwow Oh I went to the powwow at Table Mountain casino and I have some stuff to say! For one thing it was really hot, like many powwows here in Cali but the water was in a ice chest on the MC stand you had to walk way over there and get it yourself or drink hot gateraid, at least it was hot when I went over and got some in their tiny casino cups! You had to stand there like cows at a water hole to get enough fluids in. People were dropping like flies, and the medics took forever to get to them. But people didn't care, one girl was jirking in the arena from a sezure or something and they were like, well ok while she's getting help lets get on with the contest!! Oh yeah like people want to dance around someone who is laying there, probably embarrased and scared, but the powwow must go on. The Drum contest was screwed up. They never mentioned on their flyers that you had to have 7 singers and that contesting started on Friday, we got a call on friday from a friend saying all the rules are changing as they go along. That was crazy. All the drums were pretty good, but there was some that should of placed, like Rocky Park, they were pretty good. And none of the drums got any kind of gas money which wasn't cool, since they held everyone there til like 8:30 on Sunday. They made everyone contest on dancing saturday and again in the heat on sunday, I pulled my kids out and didn't let them finish their contesting, they are more important to me than their show! I'm still tasting dirt from the powwow, you think they could water it all down! We won't go back, nope not ever! Unless they paid us for staff LOL. And maybe not even that. Oh yeah and that Princess contest was a joke. Two of our friends daughters ran for princess, first they were told they were the only ones LOL way later they were told the out going princess was running again and had sold a few thousand $, so like get your butts in gear and sell some more! Some of these girls worked hard, but the old princess won, everyone else was given a what? a hand shake and see you later! Not even a dang rose or something for their hundreds of dollars they made for them. And many were talking it was all fixed because the Table mountain people favored her, must be nice huh. Ran into a elder at the gas station on the way home and we were told they, the elders from the color guards were given a few dollars for their time there. Even though they were asked to be there all weekend in the heat. Gee these are our vets!! have some respect please! It's a casino powwow you think they would be more careing and generous, they have the funds! What really pissed me off was when I heard a jingle dancer went to get her meal with the certain color wrist band was not alowed to take her tiny tots sister in to get food because she had a different color wrist band, she had to leave her while she got her food in a gated canopy? is that Crazy? We are family, we eat together as family, come on people what you doing over there at table mountain? These are our children, you don't turn away a kid from food!!!!!! Lets wake up and remember what we are doing, powwow should be fun and a time to share and reunite with family and friends, not money money money and show show show! Hope some one wakes them up over there! One Native Mom

06-14-2004, 09:33 PM	#2 (permalink)
HOKAHEYGUY Junior Dancer Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 117	I think the powwow was no good it was hot dancers were falling cuz of the heat.and they drag the powwow too long and didint even know what the crap they were doing with the drum contest.Man the dust was allful didint even water it down.Then they got the same princess as last year it was fix .they didnt even get all the dancers food .they turn down a little girl dancer cuz she didint have a food band how dumb is that.I will never go again that powwow is full of crap

06-15-2004, 01:32 AM	#6 (permalink)
HOKAHEYGUY Junior Dancer Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 117	What was worng with the drum contest is i got to look at the drum rules book it says nothing about haveing 7 singers this old man named hershel was the main drum guy and he was changing everything they should put on the flyer you must have 7 singers.then they say if you were not here on friday then u miss out on points/. man some drums got to work or school.the powwow didint know what the hell they were doing

06-15-2004, 01:42 AM	#7 (permalink)
westcoast_player Tiny Tot Dancer Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: cali Posts: 66	To me i think this powwow was a dud it was to hot and dusty. and to me i Think since the powwow was so dang hot they should of choped it down a little not drag it. so dont know if i'll ever go bak to this powwow

06-16-2004, 12:48 AM	#10 (permalink)
bigyellowbear49 Singing Grampa Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Fresno Posts: 42	" Drums: Blackstone, Rocky Park, Smoky Creek, Red Sands, Southern Express, red buffalo, Green River, Spirit Ground and some others that I can't remember... Results: 1. red buffalo 2. southern Express 3. buckshot ramblers from what I hear there was some real shady stuff going on with the head drum judge and some others, like drums that should have placed didn't and those that did were messing up their contest songs and also they change some of the drum r ules like having a certain minimum of singers for one thing." I would like to respond to some of these allegations. First off, there was plenty of water. There were 244 cases of water with 24 in each case given away by the committee. Granted, you had to go to the speaker stand to get it. It was hot, but not miserable, like Soboba, Morongo, Barona, or even some of the Okla powwows. Response time for EMT's was poor. That needs to be addressed, but numerous people offered solutions to the committee. The female dancer had a hypoglycemic attack. As I recall, no one asked for the next contest until the female was determined to be free of distress. She refused to go to the hospital and any further medical treatment. The other female was dehydrated. as was the male singer. As for the drum contest, and the head drum judge........ in my opinion it was as fair as it could be considering Table Mountain normally leans more toward northern drums. The judges were chosen by the committee, not the head drum judge. The head judge was threatened with termination if he did not comply with their wishes. In addition, the committee performed all the tabulations, including the drum contest. The judges were selected from the host and invited host drums. It was a points contest. As for 7 singers being the requirement, everyone met it except for 2 drums. Fri night was a requirement of 4 singers to qualify for the contest. Points were given to the drums there on Fri, ready to sing. The flyer stated the powwow started Fri. A lot of singers on the drums Fri worked, but showed up anyway. As for fairness of contest, that is something which needs addressing to the committee. I, for one, enjoyed myself, somewhat. There appeared to be too much disorganization and they did drag it out. Also, there was no reason to have 2 contest songs for each category on a hot Sun afternoon. All these issues should be addressed by the committee in order for it to become a better powwow. All this griping and crying does not improve or change anything on powwows.com. Voice your concerns to the committee. After all, having a good powwow is the goal, is it not??? Crying about judging, head judges, the weather, is all redundant. All you can do is move on to the next powwow. You win some and you lose some. All the winners at Table Mountain are usually winners everywhere else, with the exception of the drum contest. What makes this dance worse than any of the others? Just my opinion.

06-16-2004, 01:15 AM	#13 (permalink)
50cal Natural Born Killer...... Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Looking for some bad guys... Posts: 7,777	and one more thing, since we're speaking of fairness....was it fair to the princess contestants that the same one was chosen again???? Usually most powwows do not allow the current princess to run again....Now was that fair???? __________________ "Sweat dries, blood clots, bones heal. Suck it up. Be a Marine"