Tourism vs. Powwows. - Page 2

**chazziff** · 01-12-2005, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhoMe

Many state tourism bureaus are wanting to include Indian powwows in their calendar of events. This would mean non Indian tourists are officially welcomed to attend the listed powwows.

Sometimes this is a win-win situation for the larger "mega powwows." These mega powwows actually encourage non Indians tourism as a way of gaining revenue to pay expenses.

But there is another side to tourism at powwows. . .

It is my firm belief that "Indian powwows are for the enjoyment of it's participants - not tourism." The majority of Indian powwows have predominately all Indian participation. Most are small to medium in size and are community or tribally based. They work on a shoestring budget and have fundraising activities as part of the program.

Let's say that Indian powwows do open themselves to non Indian tourism. What implications would go along with this?
I can see where a new set of standards would have to be addressed.

Among these new standards would be: Handicap accessability, health code restrictions, Insurance, taxes on goods and services to non Indians, permanent seating arrangements for non Indians close to the arena, close access parking for tour busses, and various other hospitality accommodations.

These new standards for tourism accommodation would ultimately change traditional powwows as we know them

What is your take on this?

wouldn't we want some of this anyways like handicap accessibility (there are natives in wheelchairs too), health code restrictions (i would like to have vendors (business and family based) to follow at least the minimum health codes like WASHING THEIR HANDS) and some creature comforts like permanant covered seating for elders and running water on the grounds. there are some natives out there who drive big huge motor homes and would probably like to have rv hookups. there is day parking (would that qualify as tour bus parking) and camping areas (weekend parking).

there is a difference between some pw's (some have 1200 1st place for adults - these aren't big mega pw in cities either but much the norm in alberta/saskatchewan area) and smaller ones (that have $50 1st place). of these bigger pw's (they are mostly first nation reserve's annual pw (without funding from outside sources) and there are not that many mega pw in this area if u can saskatoon (fsin) and regina annual pws mega ones) most do advertise in their states/provincal tourism books/websites even radio. there are not that many tourists there maybe 5% of the audience - most are respectful not unlike abel from texas. but more often enough it's the young native people who are disrespectful - i'm not saying that all young people are that way either but there are some out there. starting fights and walking out in front of the flags or Elders or in front of a dancer blowing an eagle whistle - for example

so does tourism really change pw? don't we become tourists when we go to other areas/countries/states? i've personally seen where white people were charged admission by security when there was no admission being charged by the pw committee. this one guy made almost two hundred dollars doing this - the committee made him give it to the tiny tots. i only hope that when we go to other areas that we are treated as well...

**Josiah** · 12-17-2006, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhoMe

At most powwows there is a stray tourist or non Indian visitor who has been invited by participants at the powwow. This is common and tolerable.

However, what if a whole lot of tourists came to a powwow to "see the Indians."

Not knowing they would invade personal space and more than likely cross the line with many Indian people.

I have been at many powwows where there have been many misunderstandings between powwow people and tourists.

Anybody have some horror stories?

This thread reminded me of a Powwow in Union Missouri of this year...
The powwow was put together as a 50th wedding anniversity and the site was picked because the school basically donated the GYM.
The Silverhorn family came emasse from Oklahoma and alot of the singers were from Oklahoma or Texas.
We started at 1200 noon with Gourd dancing and the bleachers were full of Non-Ndns
After each song they would clap!!! As if we were performing for them!!!
We went a full day up to 10:00 pm
I had many people coming up and shake my hand for the entertainment they recieved...
Oh we has some nasty moments like the woman screaming at the top of her lungs where is the food!!!
It was a small powwow with just Family members helping out
The school would not allow food or drink into the gym and boy do people get angry when you tell them what they cant do!!!
Ahh the lovely PUBLIC

But because they sat in the bleachers and we sat in our chairs you could see who had been to a powwow (they brought their own chairs) and who had not (they sat in the bleachers)
So there was not alot of interaction during the dance,
during breaks and stuff there was alot of picture taking and requests for that but all in all it went fairly well
I had many come to me afterwards and say that this was there very first powwow and had no clue what we did at a powwow but they seem to have a good time.

trob226 · 12-17-2006, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josiah

This thread reminded me of a Powwow in Union Missouri of this year...
The powwow was put together as a 50th wedding anniversity and the site was picked because the school basically donated the GYM.
The Silverhorn family came emasse from Oklahoma and alot of the singers were from Oklahoma or Texas.
We started at 1200 noon with Gourd dancing and the bleachers were full of Non-Ndns
After each song they would clap!!! As if we were performing for them!!!
We went a full day up to 10:00 pm
I had many people coming up and shake my hand for the entertainment they recieved...
Oh we has some nasty moments like the woman screaming at the top of her lungs where is the food!!!
It was a small powwow with just Family members helping out
The school would not allow food or drink into the gym and boy do people get angry when you tell them what they cant do!!!
Ahh the lovely PUBLIC

But because they sat in the bleachers and we sat in our chairs you could see who had been to a powwow (they brought their own chairs) and who had not (they sat in the bleachers)
So there was not alot of interaction during the dance,
during breaks and stuff there was alot of picture taking and requests for that but all in all it went fairly well
I had many come to me afterwards and say that this was there very first powwow and had no clue what we did at a powwow but they seem to have a good time.

I couldn't exactly tell from your post - was the presence of nonIndians a major headache at this powwow, or okay, or somewhere in between?

**Josiah** · 12-17-2006, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trob226

I couldn't exactly tell from your post - was the presence of nonIndians a major headache at this powwow, or okay, or somewhere in between?

I guess mostly somewhere in between

The Entertainment value took some to get use to I mean I never seen anyone clap after each Gourd Dance song

The thing that bothered me I guess was the fact that some people had this expectation of service
They came expecting food and entertainment I guess and when neither was forthcoming they let everyone know they were not pleased...

trob226 · 12-17-2006, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josiah

I guess mostly somewhere in between

The Entertainment value took some to get use to I mean I never seen anyone clap after each Gourd Dance song

The thing that bothered me I guess was the fact that some people had this expectation of service
They came expecting food and entertainment I guess and when neither was forthcoming they let everyone know they were not pleased...

Yeah, obviously some people go to a powwow expecting it to be a performance of some sort, and some people just have poor behavior, period. I'm a newbie spectator myself, but I know better than to make demands at a gathering where I am a guest.

Paul G · 12-17-2006, 11:23 PM

I have a little experience with this!

I was Pow Wow Director of a Pow Wow that had a committee of Natives that weren't Pow Wow people. Their focus was on pleasing the audience. I was under constant pressure to keep people in the seats.

This including cutting the Gourd Dance from our schedule, stopping the contests to have performers at certain times, etc.

For the dancers and singers it was very frustrating.

My argument was always that a Pow Wow is interesting enough without trying to script a production show.

**Josiah** · 12-17-2006, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul G

I have a little experience with this!

I was Pow Wow Director of a Pow Wow that had a committee of Natives that weren't Pow Wow people. Their focus was on pleasing the audience. I was under constant pressure to keep people in the seats.

This including cutting the Gourd Dance from our schedule, stopping the contests to have performers at certain times, etc.

For the dancers and singers it was very frustrating.

My argument was always that a Pow Wow is interesting enough without trying to script a production show.

Frustrating would not be a word I would use
Appalling
But then I understand the pressures of Business and Entertainment
Which is what gets lost is the true reason why we dance because we love it and its part of us

If the Expectation is merely a demostration of Dances such as a Dance theater is one thing

But as far as I am concerned the Powwow is for the People dancing it Not the Spectators
Come see
Watch
But dont try to change it

Paul G · 12-17-2006, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josiah

Frustrating would not be a word I would use
Appalling
But then I understand the pressures of Business and Entertainment
Which is what gets lost is the true reason why we dance because we love it and its part of us

If the Expectation is merely a demostration of Dances such as a Dance theater is one thing

But as far as I am concerned the Powwow is for the People dancing it Not the Spectators
Come see
Watch
But dont try to change it

The problem comes in when you are a small Pow Wow trying to make enough money to put on a contest. And put on a contest with large enough prize money to attract quality dancers.

It's a tough balancing act.

**Josiah** · 12-18-2006, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul G

The problem comes in when you are a small Pow Wow trying to make enough money to put on a contest. And put on a contest with large enough prize money to attract quality dancers.

It's a tough balancing act.

Which is where we have come full circle
We want to attract the good dancers and singers by offering Contest money and the more money you offer the more dancers come
Sounds like a viscous circle does it not
When is enough enough???
When do we have all that is needed???

It cant be done
There will always be a little bigger Powwow
I know its hard
I know
But Why do we dance???
I shake my head at the ones that rush to dress to be in Grand entry and then when its done they rush back to finish dressing
Are they having fun???
Which is what drives our young ones away
They have no fun competing all the time and by the time they are 20 they are burnt out

I dance because i love the songs
Period
that is what draws me to the Powwow

Smokin' Ace · 12-18-2006, 09:46 AM

This is an awesome topic, and with me becoming more involved in tourism here in NC, this is something that has not only been discussed, but something that I think could definitely be a win-win situation. Yeah, adding the pow-wows to the calendar, would mean more exposure, but the truth of the matter in tourism is this: people will still only go where they want to go. Placing a pow-wow in the midst of a tourism "to-do" schedule, does not guarantee "heads in beds" in that region. But it does allow more exposure for the tribal people. Yes, it may also bring in folks that may bring their own opinions and crap, but hell we can't keep our own folks out for spewing it...

The problem I see comes when you DON'T include the pow-wows that feel they want that exposure, either by oversight or just plain politics - what do you do? Not everyone will ever get pleased - but I think working with local chambers of commerce is always a great situation. It also allows incredible educational opportunities, to the local folks who don't really have a clue...lol.

Oh - I love all the rest of youz guyz too - hugs for everyone!!
Happy holidays!!

trob226 · 12-18-2006, 10:44 AM

Isn't there enough room for both the powwows who want to attract visitors and those who don't? Personally, as a spectator I'd only want to go where I'm welcome, and if powwow organizers want to keep their gathering small and more for the dancers than the tourists, that's fine with me. I would not go unless I was personally invited.

12-17-2006, 11:23 PM	#26 (permalink)
Paul G Webmaster Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: Lexington, SC Posts: 14,457 Blog Entries: 1	I have a little experience with this! I was Pow Wow Director of a Pow Wow that had a committee of Natives that weren't Pow Wow people. Their focus was on pleasing the audience. I was under constant pressure to keep people in the seats. This including cutting the Gourd Dance from our schedule, stopping the contests to have performers at certain times, etc. For the dancers and singers it was very frustrating. My argument was always that a Pow Wow is interesting enough without trying to script a production show. __________________ New to the site--Introduce Yourself Need Help--FAQ--Search Feedback--Post your suggestions MyTribalSpace.com \| NativeGatherings.com \| PowWows.com Podcast \| Indigitunes.com NativeSeek.com \| Pow Wow TV \| Pow Wow Radio \| NativeMusicSource.com Radio \| NDN411.com \| eSnag Online Dating

12-18-2006, 09:46 AM	#30 (permalink)
Smokin' Ace Arena Director Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: United States Posts: 4,114	This is an awesome topic, and with me becoming more involved in tourism here in NC, this is something that has not only been discussed, but something that I think could definitely be a win-win situation. Yeah, adding the pow-wows to the calendar, would mean more exposure, but the truth of the matter in tourism is this: people will still only go where they want to go. Placing a pow-wow in the midst of a tourism "to-do" schedule, does not guarantee "heads in beds" in that region. But it does allow more exposure for the tribal people. Yes, it may also bring in folks that may bring their own opinions and crap, but hell we can't keep our own folks out for spewing it... The problem I see comes when you DON'T include the pow-wows that feel they want that exposure, either by oversight or just plain politics - what do you do? Not everyone will ever get pleased - but I think working with local chambers of commerce is always a great situation. It also allows incredible educational opportunities, to the local folks who don't really have a clue...lol. Oh - I love all the rest of youz guyz too - hugs for everyone!! Happy holidays!! __________________ Everything is gonna be alright! Be blessed - got love??? This b me..... www.myspace.com/akayo Last edited by WhoMe; 12-18-2006 at 11:00 AM.

12-18-2006, 10:44 AM	#31 (permalink)
trob226 Senior Dancer Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Where my hat is Posts: 698	Isn't there enough room for both the powwows who want to attract visitors and those who don't? Personally, as a spectator I'd only want to go where I'm welcome, and if powwow organizers want to keep their gathering small and more for the dancers than the tourists, that's fine with me. I would not go unless I was personally invited.

12-18-2006, 01:43 PM	#32 (permalink)
Homalosa Choc-lack-chick! Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Dallas, Texas (where da powwows at?) Posts: 1,587