"indians"

melissa_blackbull · 01-26-2004, 05:42 PM

There are several other names by which "Indians" are known. Native American is the most common one, First Americans is another. "Indian" is a misnomer, coined by Columbus. He was thousands of miles off course when he landed in the Carribean Islands, thinking he had reached India. However, most Indians call themselves Indian anyway. It may be technically wrong, but it's not widely perceived as derogatory.

DON'T call an Indian person "Chief" or "squaw" or "redskin". It is improper to use a revered title like Chief in a casual manner, and squaw and redskin are considered insults by just about every Indian I know.

INDIAN MONEY

There are some widely-held misconceptions that Indians get money from the government for being Indian, or that Indians don’t pay taxes. With few exceptions, this is simply not true. Unless you belong to one of the very few tribes who have highly-successful business or casino operations, there is little or no money to be gained by being Indian.

Oklahoma has one of the largest Indian populations in the United States, and many thousands here live in poverty. There are no reservations left in Oklahoma, however some areas are still largely populated by Indians. Adair county, in the Cherokee Nation, has a 43% Indian population, and a median household income of just $16,886 (source: 2001 Cherokee National Holiday program).
Tribal monies are used to provide basic services such as water lines, pre-schools, healthcare, and job training. The truth is, an Indian card and a dollar will get you a cup of coffee just about anywhere.

:Chatter

FAKES & FRAUDS

Legitimate Indian spiritual leaders don’t have business cards calling themselves shamans, or have websites soliciting money for their "services". They don't conduct seminars, sweatlodges, or sun dances and charge hundreds or thousands of dollars to attend, nor do they openly talk about spiritual ceremonies to non-Indians. In fact, outsiders rarely know who these spiritual leaders are, even though they may have regular contact with them.

The stereotype image of an old holy man sequestered on a mountaintop, chanting rituals and existing on spirituality is fantasy. The truth is that many of these people have regular jobs in their pre-retirement years, because true spiritual leaders NEVER charge for their help. It is customary for the person or family requesting the services of a spiritual leader or healer to present them with a monetary or material gifts.

But there are numerous "fake Indians" (and undoubtedly a few real ones) who are distorting Indian spirituality to make money. Real Indian ceremonies generally take place on Indian land, owned by a Federally-recognized Indian Tribe, and are never open to outsiders, not even for money. Don't get ripped off by these frauds. They are just the new-age version of greedy, insincere televangelists.

INDIAN PRINCESSES

NEVER tell an Indian that your great-great-great-grandmother was an Indian princess. There was never such a thing until tribes and clubs began choosing young ladies as their ambassadors in the middle and later part of the 1900‘s.

Good or bad, it doesn’t matter WHO you are descended from, you are still judged on your OWN character, not your ancestors. And you can bet your paycheck that the real chief’s descendants know the name of the chief(s) that they descend from.
:chief:

01-26-2004, 07:35 PM

huh i thought we were called natives or aboriginals

AlmostThere · 01-27-2004, 11:10 AM

NEVER tell an Indian that your great-great-great-grandmother was an Indian princess------wow....i've herd this soooooo many times.....

melissa_blackbull · 01-27-2004, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by katezninen
NEVER tell an Indian that your great-great-great-grandmother was an Indian princess------wow....i've herd this soooooo many times.....

:agree?:

WhoMe · 01-28-2004, 04:30 PM

______

Melissa:

I have enjoyed reading your threads. Some are long, but provide a lot of useful resources.

____

It would be utopia if we, the Indigenous peoples of Turtle Island, could be referred by our tribal/aboriginal names. But unfortunately, this is not possible for each individual to be referred by their tribal names.

As a generalization. . .

Alaskan Natives do not like to be called Indians, but rather Alaskan Natives. Canadian Aboriginal peoples are usually referred to as First Nations people. Tribes in the lower forty-eight states usually refer to each other, like you said, as "Indian." Whether this is politically correct or not, the average "skin" refers to themselves as Indian - when in a room full of non Indians.

It is rare for an "Indian" to introduce themselves by saying, "Hi! I'm a Native American," (unless they are trying to get an academic grant or fill out a census card) *L . . . I'm sure occasionally it does happen.

The National Museum of the American Indian refers to indigenous people of North America as American Indians- not Native Americans. The term "Indian" is the actual legal term used in US federal law. In modern usage, the legal term "Indian" usually means an enrolled member of a federally recognized tribe (or one who is eligible to be enrolled in a federally recognized tribe). Each tribe has the sovereign authority to define who their members are and who is eligible to be enrolled.

Ultimately, the question of, "Who is an Indian?" is determined by tribal law.

melissa_blackbull · 01-28-2004, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by WhoMe
______

Melissa:

I have enjoyed reading your threads. Some are long, but provide a lot of useful resources.

____

It would be utopia if we, the Indigenous peoples of Turtle Island, could be referred by our tribal/aboriginal names. But unfortunately, this is not possible for each individual to be referred by their tribal names.

As a generalization. . .

Alaskan Natives do not like to be called Indians, but rather Alaskan Natives. Canadian Aboriginal peoples are usually referred to as First Nations people. Tribes in the lower forty-eight states usually refer to each other, like you said, as "Indian." Whether this is politically correct or not, the average "skin" refers to themselves as Indian - when in a room full of non Indians.

It is rare for an "Indian" to introduce themselves by saying, "Hi! I'm a Native American," (unless they are trying to get an academic grant or fill out a census card) *L . . . I'm sure occasionally it does happen.

The National Museum of the American Indian refers to indigenous people of North America as American Indians- not Native Americans. The term "Indian" is the actual legal term used in US federal law. In modern usage, the legal term "Indian" usually means an enrolled member of a federally recognized tribe (or one who is eligible to be enrolled in a federally recognized tribe). Each tribe has the sovereign authority to define who their members are and who is eligible to be enrolled.

Ultimately, the question of, "Who is an Indian?" is determined by tribal law.

I CAN AGREE WITH YOU ON THIS ONE. BUT THERE ARE STILL SOME PEOPLE OUT THERE WHO DO NOT WISH TO BE CALLED "INDIAN". BUT SOME OTHERS DONT MIND IT. I GUESS ITS ALL WHAT YOU AS A PERSON WANT TO BE CALLED... AND THANK YOU FOR MY POST. IM SORRY IF SOME ARE TO LONG. I FEEL IF I SPREAD MORE INFO AROUND BY THINGS I COME ACROSS IT WILL HELP THOSE WHO KNOW NOTHING AT ALL... THERE ARE ALOT OF BOY SCOUTS THAT COME HERE AND ALOT ARE NOT GETTING TOUGHT THE RIGHT THINGS. AND AS WELL AS OTHERS THAT COME IN HERE FROM OTHER COUNTRYS. IM JUST TRYING TO DO A SMALL PART ON WHATS WRONG WITH ALOT THAT GOES ON TODAY. THE MORE WE READ THE MORE WE LEARN. :) :p :D

bwhite · 01-28-2004, 05:14 PM

WhoMe and melissa_blackbull, thank you both for your good words and thoughtful insight!:Thumbs

melissa_blackbull · 01-28-2004, 05:16 PM

WELL THANKS! :huddle:

Nishnawbe10 · 01-28-2004, 11:48 PM

I agree, I am from Canada and we call our selves Anishnawbe

Anishnawbe –Meaning of this word, First people, Original people, First man. In many books and websites, they state that we are Algonquin stock. However they are wrong, we recognize our selves as Anishnawbe people. We speak the Anishnawbe language. Ojibways, Ojibwa, Ojibwe, Ojicree, Cree, Chippewa, Potawatomi, Algonquin, etc. Many elders told me that the Nishnawbe people were a big family at one time, before the whites came to this land. Many of us know these old stories and other stories that been past down.

Great post and melissa_blackbull you got your self a bright mind. Keep it up.

Tom Iron Eagle · 01-29-2004, 12:27 PM

Very Good Posts Everybody.

I use the term Native American for several reasons. Here is just one for thought:

When I was taking classes at the University Level, I found myself surrounded by a great deal of International Students including a rather large population of people from INDIA.

When I went to another University, the INDIA population was even larger with most studying Medicine and Engineering and Law.

When a few of us "Natives" decided to organize a small group we put out some annoucements in the University Paper calling for American Indians, and guess what - over 200 INDIA people showed up at the first meeting! How about that?

The Greater Metro Urban Area near me has over five Colleges/Universities so we have a large number of INDIA people. I found that using Native American is best to distinquish us from them when need be.

So sometimes where you live and what population is around you may decide what term to use.

**Kiwehnzii** · 01-29-2004, 12:51 PM

A Canada-born Anishinaabe and a Hochunk meet on a street in Detroit.

Anishinaabe - Bozho!
Hochunk - Aho!
Anishinaabe - I guess we don't speak the same language. Hey, I'm up for a few drinks and want to meet some people of aboriginal descent. You know, some First Nations people. Do you know where I could go?
Hochunk - Yeah, I know. There's a Native American bar a coupla blocks down that way. I'll go with you. I'll introduce you to some indigenous American Indian folks.

This is what they would really say.
Anishinaabe - Hey Niij, wheres the nearest Indian bar.
Hochunk - Just down the street. I'll go with you.

eagleclan22 · 01-29-2004, 01:05 PM

LMAO @ Kiiwehnzii

I always enjoy reading your posts! You got that real Nish humour.. I like how you lighten up some of these threads. ;) :Chatter

WhoMe · 01-30-2004, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kiwehnzii
This is what they would really say.
Anishinaabe - Hey Niij, wheres the nearest Indian bar.
Hochunk - Just down the street. I'll go with you.

Kiwhenzi:

So right on.

I agree. Indian people don't use formal language when talking to one another, no matta' what tribe they come from.

The only situations I have heard skins refer to themselves as "Native American" is:

1. In an academic situation, addressing a bunch of non-Indians.

2. In a foreign country, referring to us as "Red Indians" to distinquish us from the East Indians.

or

3. When an Indian is trying to be "someway" and says, "excuse me, I am a Native American. Will you please pass the Grey Poupon?"

(Normally these types of Indians only claim their Indian heritage when they apply for college grant monies or a casino royalty check).

01-26-2004, 05:42 PM	#1 (permalink)
melissa_blackbull Junior Dancer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: UNDER THE STARS:p Posts: 127	"indians" There are several other names by which "Indians" are known. Native American is the most common one, First Americans is another. "Indian" is a misnomer, coined by Columbus. He was thousands of miles off course when he landed in the Carribean Islands, thinking he had reached India. However, most Indians call themselves Indian anyway. It may be technically wrong, but it's not widely perceived as derogatory. DON'T call an Indian person "Chief" or "squaw" or "redskin". It is improper to use a revered title like Chief in a casual manner, and squaw and redskin are considered insults by just about every Indian I know. INDIAN MONEY There are some widely-held misconceptions that Indians get money from the government for being Indian, or that Indians don’t pay taxes. With few exceptions, this is simply not true. Unless you belong to one of the very few tribes who have highly-successful business or casino operations, there is little or no money to be gained by being Indian. Oklahoma has one of the largest Indian populations in the United States, and many thousands here live in poverty. There are no reservations left in Oklahoma, however some areas are still largely populated by Indians. Adair county, in the Cherokee Nation, has a 43% Indian population, and a median household income of just $16,886 (source: 2001 Cherokee National Holiday program). Tribal monies are used to provide basic services such as water lines, pre-schools, healthcare, and job training. The truth is, an Indian card and a dollar will get you a cup of coffee just about anywhere. :Chatter FAKES & FRAUDS Legitimate Indian spiritual leaders don’t have business cards calling themselves shamans, or have websites soliciting money for their "services". They don't conduct seminars, sweatlodges, or sun dances and charge hundreds or thousands of dollars to attend, nor do they openly talk about spiritual ceremonies to non-Indians. In fact, outsiders rarely know who these spiritual leaders are, even though they may have regular contact with them. The stereotype image of an old holy man sequestered on a mountaintop, chanting rituals and existing on spirituality is fantasy. The truth is that many of these people have regular jobs in their pre-retirement years, because true spiritual leaders NEVER charge for their help. It is customary for the person or family requesting the services of a spiritual leader or healer to present them with a monetary or material gifts. But there are numerous "fake Indians" (and undoubtedly a few real ones) who are distorting Indian spirituality to make money. Real Indian ceremonies generally take place on Indian land, owned by a Federally-recognized Indian Tribe, and are never open to outsiders, not even for money. Don't get ripped off by these frauds. They are just the new-age version of greedy, insincere televangelists. INDIAN PRINCESSES NEVER tell an Indian that your great-great-great-grandmother was an Indian princess. There was never such a thing until tribes and clubs began choosing young ladies as their ambassadors in the middle and later part of the 1900‘s. Good or bad, it doesn’t matter WHO you are descended from, you are still judged on your OWN character, not your ancestors. And you can bet your paycheck that the real chief’s descendants know the name of the chief(s) that they descend from. :chief: __________________ "I AM BUT A MIST OF WATER IN A RAIN STORM""FOR I HAVE MUCH TO LEARN."

01-27-2004, 11:10 AM	#3 (permalink)
AlmostThere The Original OP CREW Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: AZ Posts: 971	NEVER tell an Indian that your great-great-great-grandmother was an Indian princess------wow....i've herd this soooooo many times..... __________________ blah blah blah....

01-28-2004, 05:16 PM	#8 (permalink)
melissa_blackbull Junior Dancer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: UNDER THE STARS:p Posts: 127	WELL THANKS! :huddle: __________________ "I AM BUT A MIST OF WATER IN A RAIN STORM""FOR I HAVE MUCH TO LEARN."

01-28-2004, 11:48 PM	#9 (permalink)
Nishnawbe10 Proud Nish from Canada Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Canada and the USA. Posts: 165	Anishnawbe I agree, I am from Canada and we call our selves Anishnawbe Anishnawbe –Meaning of this word, First people, Original people, First man. In many books and websites, they state that we are Algonquin stock. However they are wrong, we recognize our selves as Anishnawbe people. We speak the Anishnawbe language. Ojibways, Ojibwa, Ojibwe, Ojicree, Cree, Chippewa, Potawatomi, Algonquin, etc. Many elders told me that the Nishnawbe people were a big family at one time, before the whites came to this land. Many of us know these old stories and other stories that been past down. Great post and melissa_blackbull you got your self a bright mind. Keep it up.

01-29-2004, 12:27 PM	#10 (permalink)
Tom Iron Eagle Teen Dancer Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Florida Posts: 370	Use for Native American Very Good Posts Everybody. I use the term Native American for several reasons. Here is just one for thought: When I was taking classes at the University Level, I found myself surrounded by a great deal of International Students including a rather large population of people from INDIA. When I went to another University, the INDIA population was even larger with most studying Medicine and Engineering and Law. When a few of us "Natives" decided to organize a small group we put out some annoucements in the University Paper calling for American Indians, and guess what - over 200 INDIA people showed up at the first meeting! How about that? The Greater Metro Urban Area near me has over five Colleges/Universities so we have a large number of INDIA people. I found that using Native American is best to distinquish us from them when need be. So sometimes where you live and what population is around you may decide what term to use. Last edited by Tom Iron Eagle; 01-30-2004 at 09:05 AM.

01-26-2004, 07:35 PM	#2 (permalink)
bl@ckfoothoney Guest Posts: n/a	huh i thought we were called natives or aboriginals

01-28-2004, 04:30 PM	#5 (permalink)
WhoMe PauWau Coordinator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Land of 370 Broken Treaties Posts: 5,495	______ Melissa: I have enjoyed reading your threads. Some are long, but provide a lot of useful resources. ____ It would be utopia if we, the Indigenous peoples of Turtle Island, could be referred by our tribal/aboriginal names. But unfortunately, this is not possible for each individual to be referred by their tribal names. As a generalization. . . Alaskan Natives do not like to be called Indians, but rather Alaskan Natives. Canadian Aboriginal peoples are usually referred to as First Nations people. Tribes in the lower forty-eight states usually refer to each other, like you said, as "Indian." Whether this is politically correct or not, the average "skin" refers to themselves as Indian - when in a room full of non Indians. It is rare for an "Indian" to introduce themselves by saying, "Hi! I'm a Native American," (unless they are trying to get an academic grant or fill out a census card) *L . . . I'm sure occasionally it does happen. The National Museum of the American Indian refers to indigenous people of North America as American Indians- not Native Americans. The term "Indian" is the actual legal term used in US federal law. In modern usage, the legal term "Indian" usually means an enrolled member of a federally recognized tribe (or one who is eligible to be enrolled in a federally recognized tribe). Each tribe has the sovereign authority to define who their members are and who is eligible to be enrolled. Ultimately, the question of, "Who is an Indian?" is determined by tribal law.

01-28-2004, 05:14 PM	#7 (permalink)
bwhite Teen Dancer Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: wilmington, nc, usa Posts: 300	WhoMe and melissa_blackbull, thank you both for your good words and thoughtful insight!:Thumbs

01-29-2004, 12:51 PM	#11 (permalink)
Kiwehnzii Oldfart Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 2,868	A Canada-born Anishinaabe and a Hochunk meet on a street in Detroit. Anishinaabe - Bozho! Hochunk - Aho! Anishinaabe - I guess we don't speak the same language. Hey, I'm up for a few drinks and want to meet some people of aboriginal descent. You know, some First Nations people. Do you know where I could go? Hochunk - Yeah, I know. There's a Native American bar a coupla blocks down that way. I'll go with you. I'll introduce you to some indigenous American Indian folks. This is what they would really say. Anishinaabe - Hey Niij, wheres the nearest Indian bar. Hochunk - Just down the street. I'll go with you.

01-29-2004, 01:05 PM	#12 (permalink)
eagleclan22 Breath Inspector Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Sagkeeng First Nation Posts: 317	LMAO @ Kiiwehnzii I always enjoy reading your posts! You got that real Nish humour.. I like how you lighten up some of these threads. ;) :Chatter __________________ NO MY EYES REALLY DONT LOOK LIKE THAT........ THATS ME AS A BRATZ DOLL ;) http://pages.ivillage.com/sagkeengpowwow2003/ Some guys are good with their drum sticks.... and some just arent...:karate:

01-31-2004, 06:46 PM	#14 (permalink)
missy hello Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 67