Life after powwows - Page 3

**bahnisiain** · 12-26-2003, 01:52 PM

In the off-season I sew and bead in addition to being a massage therapist.

during pow wow season, when the pow wow is over for the day, i would kick back and listen to some 49 songs or look for a snag of two :D .

Babe · 12-27-2003, 03:17 AM

This is a good subject!!!
I agree with those who said powwowing should not be a living, it seems as though a part of our culture is being abused. Money has gotten in the way of what a powwow really is, how it was really started. This was just an outlet for us ndns when the white man came and told us we couldn't perform our ceremonies, do things that was part of our traditions. Powwow was not a sport back in the day, it was a place to meet other indians, socialize, dance, sing, eat....

I commend those who have jobs, education and degrees and careers and still have time to powwow! Our ndn youth should follow their examples. You talk to these people who powwow all the time nowdays and most do not have steady jobs. Then all this talk about natives and poverty, depressing news about people living off $10 the whole weekend till hopefully they win!

...but it's true it's your choice, you decide the way you wanna live. I'll powwow FOREVER - it's my way of life as with many others. But I'll sacrifice a few years right now for a career so I won't end up w/ $ probs down the oldie road.

**Kakeeya** · 12-27-2003, 02:24 PM

Sometimes the die hard powwowers have to set aside traditions and beliefs in order to carry on powwowing as that is their only income. One of my friends had a close death in her family and our tradition of mourning is to wait a year, but because her and her husband also have a drum group and obligations she continued to dance and her family continued to drum.

cougarwalker · 12-28-2003, 04:02 PM

it really is a shame that it has lost its true meaning. not for all but for the few i feel sad for them. cougie

softwind · 12-28-2003, 06:49 PM

The one thing I do have to say that bothers me the worst are the people who do only travel the circuit for their way of life and have children. Because useully this is all the life the children are exposed to. No Disney land, No real school, No place just to call home like a house with a yard and swing set. Because the parents are to busy trying to make it to another pow-wow just to make enough money to pay for another night in a tent or motel room, gas money to get there and food. Because actully this all the money is going for. There is no extra for a trip to disney land or even a college fund. Not to mention one day the children might want to get a car of their own so they can go and make a life for them selves because they are so burned out from being on the road. Not to mention being in church sometimes on Sunday instead of being on time for grandentry.

And these are all the reasons I work and Pow-Wow and stay at home some myself. My seasons are mainly spring and fall. But at the end of it I am always tired and my children are ready to stay at home by a warm fire that I do put in our fire place at our home. We do just ride down to the beach to relax and go to the ballet and let me not forget be in church on Sunday, and do other things than just Pow-Wow all the time. It is great when we do it but to everything there is a season. It is just a matter of putting everything in to perspective. Because my mama use to say to much of anything is not good.

Just my 2cents:)

cougarwalker · 12-28-2003, 09:20 PM

very wise soft wind. children need stability and warm fires at home. they need to be taught all aspects of life not just the road. cougie

Homalosa · 12-29-2003, 02:54 AM

Off season I get so bored and plan in my head all the powwows I'll hit when the new season comes. Then season gets here and I'm always thinking, "do I go and take all the kids? Do I make my oldest boy dance (he always prefers to play football with the other non dancing kids)? I know my kids will never learn if they don't go, so I take them. The 8 and 2 year old dance voluntarily and I nudge the 10 year old. But then again my husband doesn't powwow. It took a while for him to support my powwow binges, and now that he does, I try to keep things balanced. He promises me we'll all go to Pechanga this year and stay in the hotel. Don't know if that will happen, but I would love to powwow as an entire family. Mom comes, but my husband only comes to the annual tribal events where he "hotels it."

12-29-2003, 03:09 AM

Hey Homalosa, you forgot to say we all have regular jobs...
fortunately you have the weekend off.

I once had to work a flight to ABQ and half the plane was full of NDNs going to GON. We had a time trying to find room for all their boxes and hanging regalia.

When we landed all I could do was say 'dance hard' cuz i got to
get paid! So that when I do get come along nanna has money!

So between school, sports, PW's, church and our jobs I think our kids will be balanced. Besides with the money aspect of competition of PW today, I think the traditions that deal with character and how we walk when away from the circle is more important for them to get.

cc ( Homi's mom)

Homalosa · 12-29-2003, 03:18 AM

true that mom. one thing hubby said that really made me feel good was his response to my question about the boys always playing sports on Saturdays. I asked, "if they always have a different sport on Saturday, when will they have time to dance?" He responded, "on Sunday." I argued, "well, then they can't contest." He looked at me and said, "since when is it about a contest. The point is that the kids dance. Learning their culture and dancing is more important than contesting. Take our daughter on Saturday and the boys with you both on Sunday."

It's a compromise and it works (some times) :)

CHEROSAGE · 01-04-2004, 03:35 AM

Zeke: I know what you mean. I too feel jelous of those Chucksters that always have that move of moves. I have won a dance or 2 but that isnt' why I go to dance. I will always Powwow 'til the day I die (hopefully). My family will continue for me when I can't dance. My Grandchildren will be my legs.

Powwowing isn't traditional to most tribes but I agree it is cultural or we wouldn't be there. I enjoy watching the other dancers both young and old. I know those that make dancing a livelyhood though this does'nt last long. I also know of the greatest dancers that make a living for thier families outside of the Powwowcircuit.

I think that the Ideal world would be to win big at the BINGO or Lottery and never have to work while we Powwow. Maybe we could own a lot of stock in Wal-Mart or better OWN a Wal-Mart store. See you at the next Dance when I don't have to work a weekend.

WhoMe · 01-08-2004, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CHEROSAGE

Powwowing isn't traditional to most tribes but I agree it is cultural or we wouldn't be there.

Cherosage:

I am compiling some info on powwows for a project. Mind if I use your quote? It has a lot of truth to it!

ma-heench · 10-12-2005, 04:19 AM

A person becomes a Champion because of personality attributes that contribute to his or her success, like: perseverence, endurance, confidence, hard work, focus, concentration etc. These same characteristics serve the dance well in other parts of their life. They become "the best" at the other parts of their life too, the best teacher, businessman, manager, nurse, designer and so on. Not every powwwow bum is a bum.

My kid was raised going to powwows every weekend, he's been to Russia, Finland, Portugal, Sweden, Italy, France and 45 states and provinces. I love what powwow has given us and give back as much as I can. I know where he is when he's not at his university classes; he's at a powwow. Its a good way of life.

My hat is off to those True Champions who are as successful in their careers as in the powwow arena.

sltate · 10-12-2005, 12:55 PM

Well, I come from a pow wow family in Oklahoma, My grandparents were charter members for OKC Pow Wow and Stroud Pow Wow as well as supporting Tulsa and if you can go way back...Ed Macks. haha But anyway, we were raised in the arena, but both of our parents worked. My dad drove a truck for Wilson Foods for over 30 years and my mom worked at the school and then at WalMart(yea!). We pow wowed local in the summer, very seldom in the winter, and my parents took a month long vacation in the summer in which we went up north for a whole month. You would think we would have learned the value of a job, but no...both my brother and I lived the pow wow life for over 10 years. Meaning we danced for a living, traveled all over the US and Canada and it was the most fun I ever had. But, it was not reality. Reality is paying your bills on time, having a good running vehicle, and dancing for the fun of it.Now we both have bad knees, and are starting up the job ladder about 10 years behind our fellow employees. We both work at an indian boarding school in Oklahoma so we have good paying jobs that we enjoy and that have alot of culture to participate in.
Reality is when my kids were old enough for 1st grade and we missed 3 weeks in January to go to pow wows in Florida. That's when I said I had enough, it didn't matter that I could win a thousand bucks a weekend when my kids were going to miss the best part of their lives...beginning school.So, I got a job and we started the home family life and I have enjoyed it. I haven't missed a game(my daughters start for the high school team,and my 6th grader starts for elementary, they also cheerlead, class officers,student council, indian club). My parents used to be so upset because we lived the pow wow life because sometimes we didn't win and had to phone home for money. My dad would say"If you don't have enough money to go to the pow wow, enjoy yourself and make it back home with your bills already paid, you don't have any business being there, your mom and I never depended on pow wow." LOL
So, "Life after Pow Wow" is interesting because only when you have a life at home, a place to call your own, your family is secure, and you can enjoy the gifts of dancing and singing and value them for what they truly are...can you say you are truly living.

sltate · 10-12-2005, 01:11 PM

Let me state for the record that even though we lived on the trail, my kids did go to Disney World, Dolly World,saw some of the best amusement parks and shopping malls on the trail(Mall of America is the best!) stayed in the best Kids Quests(LOL) and saw Mt. Rushmore, theGrand Canyon, Yellowstone Park, NYC, rode the Mississippi, went to Beale Street, rode an airboat out to the traditional villages of the Seminole, ate at a real Chiki hut out on the marsh,swam in both oceans, saw the memorial to Selena(a big deal at the time, LOL) went to ceremonies from various tribes, ate foods no one would believe unless they were indian,LOL,ate some of the hottest food ever at feasts in New Mexico. Show and Tell day always left the class in awe because of the the places my kids could tell about. Now that they are older they have alot of good memories of people they met, places they went and gifts they received from that period in time. Alot of the people they met are gone now and the familes of the people we met still acknowledge my kids as their family. So, there were good times and memories on the trail that cannot be replaced. Like I said, it was the funnest time in my life.

12-26-2003, 01:52 PM	#41 (permalink)
bahnisiain Eastern Blanket Dancer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: CT Posts: 1,800 Blog Entries: 2	In the off-season I sew and bead in addition to being a massage therapist. during pow wow season, when the pow wow is over for the day, i would kick back and listen to some 49 songs or look for a snag of two :D . __________________ Bahnisiain www.myspace.com/bahnisiain Last edited by bahnisiain; 12-27-2003 at 04:19 PM.

12-28-2003, 04:02 PM	#44 (permalink)
cougarwalker Junior Dancer Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 141	it really is a shame that it has lost its true meaning. not for all but for the few i feel sad for them. cougie __________________ it takes few words to tell the truth and a lot of them to tell a lie..

12-28-2003, 06:49 PM	#45 (permalink)
softwind Jingle Dancer Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: NC Posts: 332	Just my 2 cents The one thing I do have to say that bothers me the worst are the people who do only travel the circuit for their way of life and have children. Because useully this is all the life the children are exposed to. No Disney land, No real school, No place just to call home like a house with a yard and swing set. Because the parents are to busy trying to make it to another pow-wow just to make enough money to pay for another night in a tent or motel room, gas money to get there and food. Because actully this all the money is going for. There is no extra for a trip to disney land or even a college fund. Not to mention one day the children might want to get a car of their own so they can go and make a life for them selves because they are so burned out from being on the road. Not to mention being in church sometimes on Sunday instead of being on time for grandentry. And these are all the reasons I work and Pow-Wow and stay at home some myself. My seasons are mainly spring and fall. But at the end of it I am always tired and my children are ready to stay at home by a warm fire that I do put in our fire place at our home. We do just ride down to the beach to relax and go to the ballet and let me not forget be in church on Sunday, and do other things than just Pow-Wow all the time. It is great when we do it but to everything there is a season. It is just a matter of putting everything in to perspective. Because my mama use to say to much of anything is not good. Just my 2cents:) __________________ SoftWind

12-28-2003, 09:20 PM	#46 (permalink)
cougarwalker Junior Dancer Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 141	very wise soft wind. children need stability and warm fires at home. they need to be taught all aspects of life not just the road. cougie __________________ it takes few words to tell the truth and a lot of them to tell a lie..

12-29-2003, 02:54 AM	#47 (permalink)
Homalosa Choc-lack-chick! Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Dallas, Texas (where da powwows at?) Posts: 1,587	Off season I get so bored and plan in my head all the powwows I'll hit when the new season comes. Then season gets here and I'm always thinking, "do I go and take all the kids? Do I make my oldest boy dance (he always prefers to play football with the other non dancing kids)? I know my kids will never learn if they don't go, so I take them. The 8 and 2 year old dance voluntarily and I nudge the 10 year old. But then again my husband doesn't powwow. It took a while for him to support my powwow binges, and now that he does, I try to keep things balanced. He promises me we'll all go to Pechanga this year and stay in the hotel. Don't know if that will happen, but I would love to powwow as an entire family. Mom comes, but my husband only comes to the annual tribal events where he "hotels it." __________________ Honor and respect your elders! "Until the lion learns to speak the tales of hunting will always favor the hunter." -K'Naan O-BAM-UH!!!! www.myspace.com/thobackmuzik www.myspace.com/asanicharles

12-27-2003, 03:17 AM	#42 (permalink)
Babe Junior Dancer Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: In the bayou where the mosquitoes are Posts: 150	This is a good subject!!! I agree with those who said powwowing should not be a living, it seems as though a part of our culture is being abused. Money has gotten in the way of what a powwow really is, how it was really started. This was just an outlet for us ndns when the white man came and told us we couldn't perform our ceremonies, do things that was part of our traditions. Powwow was not a sport back in the day, it was a place to meet other indians, socialize, dance, sing, eat.... I commend those who have jobs, education and degrees and careers and still have time to powwow! Our ndn youth should follow their examples. You talk to these people who powwow all the time nowdays and most do not have steady jobs. Then all this talk about natives and poverty, depressing news about people living off $10 the whole weekend till hopefully they win! ...but it's true it's your choice, you decide the way you wanna live. I'll powwow FOREVER - it's my way of life as with many others. But I'll sacrifice a few years right now for a career so I won't end up w/ $ probs down the oldie road.

12-27-2003, 02:24 PM	#43 (permalink)
Kakeeya PowWows.com Addicts Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: By a mountain on the Rez Posts: 2,560	Sometimes the die hard powwowers have to set aside traditions and beliefs in order to carry on powwowing as that is their only income. One of my friends had a close death in her family and our tradition of mourning is to wait a year, but because her and her husband also have a drum group and obligations she continued to dance and her family continued to drum.

12-29-2003, 03:09 AM	#48 (permalink)
comchocldy Guest Posts: n/a	life afterpw Hey Homalosa, you forgot to say we all have regular jobs... fortunately you have the weekend off. I once had to work a flight to ABQ and half the plane was full of NDNs going to GON. We had a time trying to find room for all their boxes and hanging regalia. When we landed all I could do was say 'dance hard' cuz i got to get paid! So that when I do get come along nanna has money! So between school, sports, PW's, church and our jobs I think our kids will be balanced. Besides with the money aspect of competition of PW today, I think the traditions that deal with character and how we walk when away from the circle is more important for them to get. cc ( Homi's mom)

12-29-2003, 03:18 AM	#49 (permalink)
Homalosa Choc-lack-chick! Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Dallas, Texas (where da powwows at?) Posts: 1,587	true that mom. one thing hubby said that really made me feel good was his response to my question about the boys always playing sports on Saturdays. I asked, "if they always have a different sport on Saturday, when will they have time to dance?" He responded, "on Sunday." I argued, "well, then they can't contest." He looked at me and said, "since when is it about a contest. The point is that the kids dance. Learning their culture and dancing is more important than contesting. Take our daughter on Saturday and the boys with you both on Sunday." It's a compromise and it works (some times) :) __________________ Honor and respect your elders! "Until the lion learns to speak the tales of hunting will always favor the hunter." -K'Naan O-BAM-UH!!!! www.myspace.com/thobackmuzik www.myspace.com/asanicharles Last edited by Homalosa; 12-29-2003 at 03:22 AM.

01-04-2004, 03:35 AM	#50 (permalink)
CHEROSAGE Pow Wow Committee Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: , mo Posts: 1,351	Zeke: I know what you mean. I too feel jelous of those Chucksters that always have that move of moves. I have won a dance or 2 but that isnt' why I go to dance. I will always Powwow 'til the day I die (hopefully). My family will continue for me when I can't dance. My Grandchildren will be my legs. Powwowing isn't traditional to most tribes but I agree it is cultural or we wouldn't be there. I enjoy watching the other dancers both young and old. I know those that make dancing a livelyhood though this does'nt last long. I also know of the greatest dancers that make a living for thier families outside of the Powwowcircuit. I think that the Ideal world would be to win big at the BINGO or Lottery and never have to work while we Powwow. Maybe we could own a lot of stock in Wal-Mart or better OWN a Wal-Mart store. See you at the next Dance when I don't have to work a weekend. __________________ BOB

10-12-2005, 04:19 AM	#52 (permalink)
ma-heench Junior Dancer Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 105	True Champions A person becomes a Champion because of personality attributes that contribute to his or her success, like: perseverence, endurance, confidence, hard work, focus, concentration etc. These same characteristics serve the dance well in other parts of their life. They become "the best" at the other parts of their life too, the best teacher, businessman, manager, nurse, designer and so on. Not every powwwow bum is a bum. My kid was raised going to powwows every weekend, he's been to Russia, Finland, Portugal, Sweden, Italy, France and 45 states and provinces. I love what powwow has given us and give back as much as I can. I know where he is when he's not at his university classes; he's at a powwow. Its a good way of life. My hat is off to those True Champions who are as successful in their careers as in the powwow arena. Last edited by ma-heench; 10-12-2005 at 04:20 AM. Reason: misspelled word

10-12-2005, 12:55 PM	#53 (permalink)
sltate Senior Dancer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: apache,ok Posts: 562	Well, I come from a pow wow family in Oklahoma, My grandparents were charter members for OKC Pow Wow and Stroud Pow Wow as well as supporting Tulsa and if you can go way back...Ed Macks. haha But anyway, we were raised in the arena, but both of our parents worked. My dad drove a truck for Wilson Foods for over 30 years and my mom worked at the school and then at WalMart(yea!). We pow wowed local in the summer, very seldom in the winter, and my parents took a month long vacation in the summer in which we went up north for a whole month. You would think we would have learned the value of a job, but no...both my brother and I lived the pow wow life for over 10 years. Meaning we danced for a living, traveled all over the US and Canada and it was the most fun I ever had. But, it was not reality. Reality is paying your bills on time, having a good running vehicle, and dancing for the fun of it.Now we both have bad knees, and are starting up the job ladder about 10 years behind our fellow employees. We both work at an indian boarding school in Oklahoma so we have good paying jobs that we enjoy and that have alot of culture to participate in. Reality is when my kids were old enough for 1st grade and we missed 3 weeks in January to go to pow wows in Florida. That's when I said I had enough, it didn't matter that I could win a thousand bucks a weekend when my kids were going to miss the best part of their lives...beginning school.So, I got a job and we started the home family life and I have enjoyed it. I haven't missed a game(my daughters start for the high school team,and my 6th grader starts for elementary, they also cheerlead, class officers,student council, indian club). My parents used to be so upset because we lived the pow wow life because sometimes we didn't win and had to phone home for money. My dad would say"If you don't have enough money to go to the pow wow, enjoy yourself and make it back home with your bills already paid, you don't have any business being there, your mom and I never depended on pow wow." LOL So, "Life after Pow Wow" is interesting because only when you have a life at home, a place to call your own, your family is secure, and you can enjoy the gifts of dancing and singing and value them for what they truly are...can you say you are truly living.

10-12-2005, 01:11 PM	#54 (permalink)
sltate Senior Dancer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: apache,ok Posts: 562	Let me state for the record that even though we lived on the trail, my kids did go to Disney World, Dolly World,saw some of the best amusement parks and shopping malls on the trail(Mall of America is the best!) stayed in the best Kids Quests(LOL) and saw Mt. Rushmore, theGrand Canyon, Yellowstone Park, NYC, rode the Mississippi, went to Beale Street, rode an airboat out to the traditional villages of the Seminole, ate at a real Chiki hut out on the marsh,swam in both oceans, saw the memorial to Selena(a big deal at the time, LOL) went to ceremonies from various tribes, ate foods no one would believe unless they were indian,LOL,ate some of the hottest food ever at feasts in New Mexico. Show and Tell day always left the class in awe because of the the places my kids could tell about. Now that they are older they have alot of good memories of people they met, places they went and gifts they received from that period in time. Alot of the people they met are gone now and the familes of the people we met still acknowledge my kids as their family. So, there were good times and memories on the trail that cannot be replaced. Like I said, it was the funnest time in my life.

10-12-2005, 03:02 PM	#55 (permalink)
chazziff YO!! Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 6,741