Historian

I respectfully dissagree with the notion that Sundancing or any sacred ceremony for that matter, should not be discussed at all. Without the careful and discrete discussion of the truths about such things, then only myths, half-truths, and distortions will prevail and ignorance will breed more ignorance.

In my humble opinion, if a Sundancer has been taught properly by learned mentors, elders, and holymen and has listened to the Spirits and the Creator during ceremonies, he or she will be guided and directed to know what is proper and what is not proper to discuss, with whom and in what type of environment or forum.

Lastly, just because a person has been a participant in a Sundance or many Sundances, does not mean that they have the proper attitude or behavior. Some will learn from their experience and some will not. For those who boast about their Sundance experiences or conduct themselves in ways that are improper and disrespectful to the teachings of the Sundance ways, I suggest we pray for them. They need our pity, not our criticism.

__________________

"Be good, be kind, help each other."
"Respect the ground, respect the drum, respect each other."
--Abe Conklin, Ponca/Osage (1926-1995)

quicksilverwade

I agree but I think I should've elaborated that sacred matter shouldn't be aired out for the general population. Within the confines of a private conversation between two or more natives than that is where oral traditional values take hold.

Historian

I think we both agree in general. Let me give you an example of what I mean.

If someone were to ask me, "What do you put in your pipe to smoke when you pray?" I don't need to clam up and put off the question saying, "That's too sacred to talk about, I won't discuss it." because that will only fuel ignorant speculation and the person may walk away with bad feelings, so it leads to a negative situation all around.

However, if I reply to the same question with, "I use a mixture of tobacco and the inner bark of red willow." then I have answered his question, and he is usually satisfied. But I should not explain all the details of how the pipe is used for prayer. That would be inappropriate.

If the person seems sincere and asks further probing questions like, "How do you pray with a pipe?", I might refer him to an elder or holy person to explain such things, depending on the situation and the person.

__________________

"Be good, be kind, help each other."
"Respect the ground, respect the drum, respect each other."
--Abe Conklin, Ponca/Osage (1926-1995)

quicksilverwade

Check out this site. The moderators are advising the white folk to Google their information on sundancing.

http://www.lakhota.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?p=1708#1708

I think the sundance thread was deleted:

message_die() was called multiple times. This isn't supposed to happen. Was message_die() used in page_tail.php?

But try this link:

http://www.lakhota.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?p=1552#1552

DeusExMachina

WTF???!!!?? Goddammit, if these azzholes were the real deal, they'd know better than to talk about this chit. Friggin' wannabees, and those avatars? wheesh! so damn white they make the screen look washed out. I get so sick of this kinda chit. it's like them azzholes who went and made a video and all on the sundance. I just can't wait for the ramifications to hit them.

__________________
Mad Scientists Union Local 42
Evil Geniuses For a Better Tomorrow

The secret of my succes is 30% natural talent, 10% inspiration, and the remaining 60% is just the fact that I am nucking futs.

quicksilverwade

Here is a reply from the moderator after I was banned.

---
wrote:
>
> Hello quicksilverwade,
>
> The following is an email sent to you by EarthDragon
via your account on Lakhota.Com. If this message is
spam, contains abusive or other comments you find
offensive please contact the webmaster of the board at
the following address:
>
> support@tnwhome.com
>
> Include this full email (particularly the headers).
Please note that the reply address to this email has
been set to that of EarthDragon.
>
> Message sent to you follows
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Don't worry for I am sending reinforcements. We will
barrage you with real injun ****!
>
>
> Why would you do this? We are a peaceful group and
like our conversations. It is clear this is not the
board for you. Why do you fight the inevitable? I
hope you find peace somewhere. You were given so many
chances. We are a self moderated group, we worka s a
community to decide what is acceptable. YOu have
crossed our lines. I am afraid you would not be
welcome even if you shaped up, you have burned too
many bridges. I am sorry you have made these choices.
You must be very lonely to stay where you are not
wanted, and to threaten to bring more people to
disrupt our harmony. YOu will not break our group, we
will simply pack and relocate. Have done it many
times throughout the centuries.
> May peace and wisdom find you.

kitchemanitou

Isn't that when people go to church?
ON A SUNDAY!~