Mato Winyan

I posted this and the follow ups from Arvol when they came out. Here is the link.

Message from Arvol Looking Horse on protection of ceremonies..

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"We see it as a desecration not only of a mountain but of our way of life. This is a genocidal issue to us. If they kill this mountain, they kill our way of life." ~Debra White Plume

eagleshield01

:) Waste alo! Pila maye Mato Winyan. You just saved me alot of typing and cripple fingers.

Mato Winyan

:Thumbs

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"We see it as a desecration not only of a mountain but of our way of life. This is a genocidal issue to us. If they kill this mountain, they kill our way of life." ~Debra White Plume

eagleshield01

Checked it out. Guess its just a moot point right now. Let it be i suppose. Just rubs me the wrong way to see our identity sold out.
Always knew some of our leaders just windbags and liars.
Been gone too long, need to get back home.

Nooksak

[quote]Originally posted by eagleshield01
[b]:Yell There isn't a damn thing funny about this Nooksak, honorary Ojibway. Get serious.


I am accualy, think about it, your right it may not be the same issues but Jesus was jewish, he was a "gift" to the jewish poeple, gods Chosen people, Just as the jews have ceratin cermonys that gentiles donot belong in so do u. Passover for instances is a jewish holiday and its nto for anyone but hte jews, its are celbration about are freedom, anyways i didnt mean to upset anyone but i do not take back what i said...

Nook

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"Be what you is, not what you ain't, 'cause when you is what you ain't,then you ain't what you is."

"remember an eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth! that wayt the whole world will be blind and toothles!

eagleshield01

What are you talking about? I wasn't bashing jews or their religion. I simply said that I know a jew who is intrudng upon our ceremonies and identity. Jews have a pround and strong culture and spiritual indentity, what does he need with ours(not yours, you're a wannabe). Let him stay on his side of the fence.

Nooksak

reread waht ii orginaly posted, and maybe it will make senese, as for being a wannabe, nope. but if it ,akes ya happy yto think that then be my guest. If ya accualy knew me you would see the type of person i am, adn btw i was agrring with you, on the fact that yes the cermoneyis should be closed to non-natives, including myslef. I do not feel you where bashing any relifggions, sorry if i came across that way.


TTYL,

Nook

__________________
"Be what you is, not what you ain't, 'cause when you is what you ain't,then you ain't what you is."

"remember an eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth! that wayt the whole world will be blind and toothles!

eagleclan22

Eaglesheild Im sorry,....

Im sorry but I think that you should wipe off your glasses and re-read that post. Everything you are writing back to me, does not in any way really relate to anything I was saying. Im not one to get personal with anyone unless I feel that I am being attacked. I dont really care to listen to people who think that the teachings that I have are just a bunch of BS, you know if thats what you think you should just keep it to yourself OH WISE ONE!

All I said was its not wrong for First Nations to be sharing ceremonies WITH EACHOTHER thats why we have them, to help eachother. Plain and simple thats all I was saying.

I never once said that I agreed with sharing ceremonies with non-native people. Quit tryna read things that arent even there, stay on topic buh! I didnt even say that you hated other people., thats just crazy I dont know where that came from, I dont even know you, and I would never say that about a person that I dont even know. I also never knew it wasnt ok for an NDN person to get an education these days, Just because its in a euro-styled setting dosent mean that its not right, I really didnt get what you were trying to say...

By the way I dont do drugs or drink. I am also a sundancer and my Dads a Sundancer, my sisters a sundancer and so is half my family.......I have been dancing since I was eleven years old, I have been going to Sundance with my family even before I could walk, ...might not be as long as you ... possibly, just dont think that Im speaking about something I dont know about.

I wasnt trying to offend you or anyone, Im just voicing my opinion and Im standing behind that, because I know that what I belive is not wrong. OPINION, Im not claming to know it all and Im not even judging you, Im just defending what I was taught, I dont think its in anyones place to decide what is right or what is wrong...:Mad

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NO MY EYES REALLY DONT LOOK LIKE THAT........ THATS ME AS A BRATZ DOLL ;)

http://pages.ivillage.com/sagkeengpowwow2003/

Some guys are good with their drum sticks.... and some just arent...:karate:

Jacques

This is obviously a very sensitive subject! But i dont think that the subject needs name calling and disrespect......

Do not forget that we most often do not KNOW the people we are talking to on this board,so lets not be quick to judge each other through a few lines.

do not forget that when you point the finger at someone,3 fingers point right back at you!!!;) [It does not apply to me i use my lip!!:) ]

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Hate is for FOOLS!And fools like m&ms come in all colors

I am ready to tell you my secret now,I see dumb people,.I see them everywhere.They dont know they're dumb,they only see what they want to see.That weird feeling which make the hair on your neck stand up....thats them!

Morninghawk

Most of the "bundle keepers" (a term I have never heard of before in Lakota Country...it was just certain homes and places that had pipes for use for help and health) were at those meeting and did not sign that proclamation...they were just there!! Some of those names do make a pretty penny for years off of ceremonies and sundance.

I am thinking it is time to put this stuff away for awhile. Coming back from the Dakotas and Montana, there is a a lot of anger, suspicion and just plain craven self-interest in maintaining ceremonies because it may be the only way to make mazaska/money on a rez. Face it, after the wasichu is gone with his tourism, spending money on crafts, groceries, gas, etc., we will be left at the wim of the federal government and the BIA imposed tribal governments. We are going to friggin' die, then!!

Do you want everybody out? DO YOU REALLY KNOW WHAT THAT WILL MEAN IN THE END?

Personally from the talk and the discussions I have heard is the Arvol Looking Horse has not had possession of the White Buffalo Calf pipe for 40-50 years and is out of this country in a private collection. When he sez that the original pipe is in the "international community" on his World Peace Day "thingies", that what he means.

There is a lot of selling of ceremonies just like that Catholic Church before the reformation.

I am thinking, it is time just to maybe "put away" the ceremonies again. I have sundanced four time and that is enough.

Morninghawk

Kakeeya

I keep up with this issue because my son is Lakota and Tenino. I have utmost respect for his father's people, the Lakota Oyate. However, I follow our traditional teachings here which are still very strong, they are not lost or forgotten, and my son knows both ways.
Here is Arvol's response after all the criticism from his first statement. I apologize if it was posted already, being a fairly new member to powwows.com, I never saw it.

From Chief Arvol Looking Horse:April 26, 2003
"Mitakuye,Since the statement of protecting our ceremonies, there have beenmany issues that have come out. Many people reporting on oneanother, many people arguing for the participation of non-natives,many non-natives telling me that I am a dictator of these ways. Isee this as good and bad, because I now see since these reports,there is a much bigger problem then I ever knew in concern of theviolations. Even more reports of deaths, charging, molestation andmixing of other beliefs, this must stop! These violations areaffecting our children's health, many of our children ending theirlife with suicide. They do not feel that ceremonial energy that wasmeant for them. The People in these hoc'okas need to become strongerand connected with our children's needs to survive. This Bundle isour way the Creator gave us to help us survive with spirituality. Itis all about transferring spiritual energy for health for your lovedones and thinking of 7 generations to come. These prayers also goout to the world, for all Mitakuye OyasinI don't like the division, but again when was the last time we reallyunited. I would rather see our people, even if there are only a few,unite strong and understand what this all about, to stand with me forthese ways to be protected, so this Bundle can stay for our futuregenerations. These sacred protocols were always there. The teacheris the Grandfathers. There was nothing new in my statement. Theonly thing that changed was allowing other Native People whoseNations come from this same ma-co-c'e (land) to participate inSundance and vision quest. Their Ancestors understood the values andtraditions of ceremony in the connection to this Turtle Island. Ihave known in our history that we shared our ways with other Nationswith respect. Our people would intermarry with other Native Nations,they would become a Lakota, Dakota, Nakota Oyate. It was the samewhen our woman married another Nation's man, because we have the sameteachings and bloodline to this ma-co-c'e.I have heard native and non-native people fully understand mystatement, yet many are misinterpreting the statement, because theydon't want to see the truth and how it affects them. Many havewanted me to re-explain what all this means with the decision. Thedecision was based on many years of the Elders coming to me withdreams and concerns of what is going on. I waited to make anotherstatement, to allow time to bring things out and open the eyes of thepeople to look at what is happening with our sacred ways. Just howserious these things have become, has now been revealed.I will explain the things that people have been questioning. First,I understand that there have been people at the meeting that aretalking about not agreeing with my decision. I announced my decisionin Lakota that has a much larger meaning. During the meeting, thatwas taped, Sam Moves Camp stated that I make a decision after all theissues were discussed. Yet I am getting word from non-natives thatthey have talked to some Men at the meeting and they were told thatthey did not agree. Yet no one said anything after I spoke. TheseMen are only a few. I guess they have learned how this affects themafter the statement went out, so they backed away. Some of thepeople getting back to me are reporting the misuse of theirfriendship with these Men and other Men that call themselvesIntercessors. They have questioned how they could agree with thisdecision even when they do these violations themselves. I stillstand by these Lakota Men and have to work with them. I don't feedthat negative energy. We are the Buffalo Nation and I will notreport them, it is up to these people to correct these thingsthemselves. The Buffalo teaching is to stand around one that hasfallen and help them stand, these ways belong to them, even if theyhave become lost The other need is to establish our strong Societiesagain to deal with these matters. Those Society men who arecompassionate and walk in a respectful manner, yet strong in theirenergy with spiritual guidance to correct these violations in anhonorable way.I stated the only Government protection of our ways is the EagleFeather Law, because we are dealing with non-native participationthat do not honor our spiritual laws that are in place. This only lawis when only enrolled members can own this sacred item for ceremonialuse. The feather represents knowledge and you have to earn this forany part of our ceremonies. I realize that during the 1900's many ofour people were taken away from their families. I have participatedin providing a healing ceremony for adoptees. Many are even fullbloods and can not find their families. We can still find a way toprovide our people in recognition of their right to their identity.Those that know their lineage can still prove their bloodline, ourintermarrying with other Nations is not that old that it can not befound. In the mean time, we need to continue to focus on theprotection that is available now. That first teaching of bloodlinecame when the first Keeper was told by Pte Skan Win that the Bundlemust stay in the bloodline and passed down through a vision or dreamfrom the Keeper. So it is the same teaching of our Native Bloodlinewith the ceremonies.My position is the Keeper of the Bundle that consists of the 7 SacredRites I am being responsible to remind the Oyate that these ways arebeing violated. Even to a degree that in 1979, when we were bringingout the Sacred C'anupa, we received a warning in ceremony from theGrandfathers, that if these abuses continued, they would leave. Wedecided to put away the Bundle for 7 years from 1980-87 and get theword out that we were warned. We could be just another Nation, withno identity, no cultural language, no cultural way of life and wecould probably loose our reservations and Sacred Sites. Pte-Ska Win told us her spirit would stand upon Mother Earth in thefuture, these signs have been coming every year since 1994, with thebirths of the white buffalo calves. This is a blessing, to see thereminder that the Bundle she brought is still here for us, but yet itis also a warning. If you remember she came the first time when wewere having a hard time of starvation, the buffalo disappeared,because we forgot the buffalo teachings of honoring the Creator inthe way we walk. We have forgotten these important teachings onceagain.I stated that I can not dictate to the Spiritual Leaders who theyallow to attend and support ceremonies, who they feel they need todoctor or where they travel. This was to only remind that the whitebrothers and sisters, they can still attend and pray with us at aceremony, if the Spiritual Leader allows this. Again it is thehoc'oka, the center, where our Oyate stand, that needs to beprotected. This is also a reminder even with our own people, theyneed to prepare their life to stand in that alter and learn theseprotocols of a drug and alcohol free life. They must have a callingthat is be interpreted in ceremony, to at least begin to learn thelanguage and not give in to English. The language is very importantin communicating with the Grandfathers. When I attended the UNIndigenous Day with representatives from Indigenous Nations fromaround the world, they discussed the criteria to maintain our voicein the protection of our Sacred Sites and cultural identity. Allagreed it was to maintain the language. Don't give up your waysbecause you don't know how to speak yet. You can learn as you goalong and this sacred language will come back for your Tiospaye.We are the only Indigenous Nation in the world that has opened oursacred ceremonials, of the alter, out to the public. Now we areseeing the abuse and violations. Anyone can read a book or get closeto our ceremonial people, then go out and practice our ways withoutproper protocols.Racism is when a race is not given a right because of color of skinin American Society. These sacred instructions were given to ourPeople's Society, as many other Nations were given their own. Ifthat were the case, then all the other Indigenous Nations thatprotect their sacred ways would be racist. Our Nation's protectionof these sacred ways is prayers of strength for all Mitakuye Oyasin.Indigenous People understand these boundaries of protection. Iktomiis always there to trick us. It is our responsibility to protect thelife of our Lakota, Dakota, Nakota, future generations. This giftbelongs to them, from the Creator.I would like to remind you of a time when we can all gather at theSacred Sites, with "all Nations, all faiths, one prayer", no matterhow we believe in the Creator, of World Peace and Prayer Day, June21st. This is a time when you find your own individual connection toour Unc'I Maka (Grandmother earth), from your heart, your own sacredsite. We need to give thanks and offer our prayers for her to heal.In a Sacred Hoop of life, where there is no beginning and no ending!He-c'e-tu-ye-lo,Mitakuye Oyasin,Chief Arvol Looking Horse,19th Generation Keeper of the Sacred White Buffalo Calf Pipe


stand by these Lakota Men and have to work with them. I don't feed
that negative energy. We are the Buffalo Nation and I will not
report them, it is up to these people to correct these things
themselves. The Buffalo teaching is to stand around one that has
fallen and help them stand, these ways belong to them, even if they
have become lost The other need is to establish our strong Societies
again to deal with these matters. Those Society men who are
compassionate and walk in a respectful manner, yet strong in their
energy with spiritual guidance to correct these violations in an
honorable way.

I stated the only Government protection of our ways is the Eagle
Feather Law, because we are dealing with non-native participation
that do not honor our spiritual laws that are in place. This only law
is when only enrolled members can own this sacred item for ceremonial
use. The feather represents knowledge and you have to earn this for
any part of our ceremonies. I realize that during the 1900's many of
our people were taken away from their families. I have participated
in providing a healing ceremony for adoptees. Many are even full
bloods and can not find their families. We can still find a way to
provide our people in recognition of their right to their identity.
Those that know their lineage can still prove their bloodline, our
intermarrying with other Nations is not that old that it can not be
found. In the mean time, we need to continue to focus on the
protection that is available now. That first teaching of bloodline
came when the first Keeper was told by Pte Skan Win that the Bundle
must stay in the bloodline and passed down through a vision or dream
from the Keeper. So it is the same teaching of our Native Bloodline
with the ceremonies.

My position is the Keeper of the Bundle that consists of the 7 Sacred
Rites I am being responsible to remind the Oyate that these ways are
being violated. Even to a degree that in 1979, when we were bringing
out the Sacred C'anupa, we received a warning in ceremony from the
Grandfathers, that if these abuses continued, they would leave. We
decided to put away the Bundle for 7 years from 1980-87 and get the
word out that we were warned. We could be just another Nation, with
no identity, no cultural language, no cultural way of life and we
could probably loose our reservations and Sacred Sites.

Pte-Ska Win told us her spirit would stand upon Mother Earth in the
future, these signs have been coming every year since 1994, with the
births of the white buffalo calves. This is a blessing, to see the
reminder that the Bundle she brought is still here for us, but yet it
is also a warning. If you remember she came the first time when we
were having a hard time of starvation, the buffalo disappeared,
because we forgot the buffalo teachings of honoring the Creator in
the way we walk. We have forgotten these important teachings once
again.

I stated that I can not dictate to the Spiritual Leaders who they
allow to attend and support ceremonies, who they feel they need to
doctor or where they travel. This was to only remind that the white
brothers and sisters, they can still attend and pray with us at a
ceremony, if the Spiritual Leader allows this. Again it is the
hoc'oka, the center, where our Oyate stand, that needs to be
protected. This is also a reminder even with our own people, they
need to prepare their life to stand in that alter and learn these
protocols of a drug and alcohol free life. They must have a calling
that is be interpreted in ceremony, to at least begin to learn the
language and not give in to English. The language is very important
in communicating with the Grandfathers. When I attended the UN
Indigenous Day with representatives from Indigenous Nations from
around the world, they discussed the criteria to maintain our voice
in the protection of our Sacred Sites and cultural identity. All
agreed it was to maintain the language. Don't give up your ways
because you don't know how to speak yet. You can learn as you go
along and this sacred language will come back for your Tiospaye.

We are the only Indigenous Nation in the world that has opened our
sacred ceremonials, of the alter, out to the public. Now we are
seeing the abuse and violations. Anyone can read a book or get close
to our ceremonial people, then go out and practice our ways without
proper protocols.

Racism is when a race is not given a right because of color of skin
in American Society. These sacred instructions were given to our
People's Society, as many other Nations were given their own. If
that were the case, then all the other Indigenous Nations that
protect their sacred ways would be racist. Our Nation's protection
of these sacred ways is prayers of strength for all Mitakuye Oyasin.
Indigenous People understand these boundaries of protection. Iktomi
is always there to trick us. It is our responsibility to protect the
life of our Lakota, Dakota, Nakota, future generations. This gift
belongs to them, from the Creator.

I would like to remind you of a time when we can all gather at the
Sacred Sites, with "all Nations, all faiths, one prayer", no matter
how we believe in the Creator, of World Peace and Prayer Day, June
21st. This is a time when you find your own individual connection to
our Unc'I Maka (Grandmother earth), from your heart, your own sacred
site. We need to give thanks and offer our prayers for her to heal.

In a Sacred Hoop of life, where there is no beginning and no ending!
He-c'e-tu-ye-lo,
Mitakuye Oyasin,"

Chief Arvol Looking Horse,
19th Generation Keeper of the Sacred White Buffalo Calf Pipe

Wakalapi