sun dance questions/feelings - Page 2

eagleshield01 · 06-24-2003, 12:01 PM

Okay, anthro; I'm a sundancer from S.D. and have been singing at wiwanyang wacipi for over ten years. The sun dance is our holiest of holy's and it is not something that we discuss, especially to washicu. The dance and the things that happen at the dance cannot be understood and to speak of them only takes away from the mystery and the wakan. My suggestion is that you pray you come back as an NDN in your next life and hope you have the honor and privledge to dance, if you wasicu's haven't taken that away from us too.

Wan Lakota Hoksila
Wambli Wahacunka

06-24-2003, 01:41 PM

well said!!....like i said before switch topics based on native american community.......maybe do it on breast cancer in native community..thats something us native women been dealing with next to diabetes and obecity and domestic abuse....these topics i used to do various amounts of speeches on b/c people need to know its a serious problem within our communities..my moma is a survivor of breast cancer and so many people fight about blood quantem that they forget for awhile..like the last post befor me you shouldnt discuss about that topic if you know ziltch about it..well i think with all the responses you more than get the point..

06-24-2003, 01:50 PM

BTW: with the snake charmers that was a good one*roflamo* but yall know snake taste just like chicken...and skin makes great boots...hehe me and my snake skin boots *roflamo*-becca

Beaded_mocs · 06-24-2003, 03:15 PM

Blairman, Sundance is something you have to be there to know.
but if you still wann awrite about it then go with those books

**TaShunka Luta** · 06-24-2003, 04:15 PM

I don't think ANYONE should be writing about the WiWang Wacipi for anyone outside of who it was intended for. Period. I don't even agree with it being taken and used by other tribes much less by the Wasicu who forced it underground in the first place, since the 1978 religious freedom act passed by Jimmy Carter we have tried to revive and keep our sacred ceremonies just that - SACRED. Not put on a shelf at a museum to be fondled, not put in a book to be fantasized about. You wanna write about something? Write about your own ways and your own beliefs. Write about the tradition that YOU have. Everyone has roots, everyone has tradition. Sometimes it's just easier to use someone elses. This is not welcomed. Not anymore.

**tradish_wiyan** · 06-24-2003, 07:52 PM

Well said Tashunka:clap: :clapping:

Ulinawi · 06-24-2003, 08:34 PM

lulululululululululululululu(whew)lulululululululu :Quiet :NoNo

**LittleCricket** · 06-25-2003, 02:35 AM

Luta..when you get out of the cafe for a moment..;) you really have something to say..:D

lil dancer foo foo · 07-01-2003, 06:10 PM

Like why are you guys jumping on him for asking a question? After all you say it should not be talked about because it belongs to the sioux then who you think opened the dance to others in the first place? Don't blame others for that . And don't say that was in the past - peeps are still sharing and making a buck. Do the names Crow Dog and Running mean anything to you just to name two?
Don't blame others for the mistakes of some tribal members, go after them for pete's sake.

eagleshield01 · 07-01-2003, 09:39 PM

Lil' Dancer Foo Foo

Yeah I know who Crow Dog is (which one Henry or Leonard?) and Gilly Running is my Cousin. And I know what they are doing. Probably better than you. And if you think we are letting them get away with anything you are wrong. My twin brother stopped Norbert Runnings Sun Dance in Ga in the nineities because of the disrespect shown at that dance. Must of it was committed by washicus. And it was done on the orders of Lakota Elders.
Damn right we shared are ceremonies with other Indian nations note i say Indian. Our whole way of life was being exterminated and we shared our beliefs with those who thought, acted, and behaved like us. We didnt share we our enemies, be they Indian or White. But When the dance came out of hiding in the 1970's, we chose to share with "all our relations". Our holiest of our holy men Mato Wambli (Frank Fools Crow) taught us that. It is unfortunate that things got carried away. Yes, those Lakota who have done hese things need to be and will be held responsible.
But the washicu, especially those from Europe flood our reservation every summer with deep pockets and of course there will be those who sell out. What can you expect. On Pine Ridge we have an 70 - 80% unemployment rate. We live in the poorest county in the US. A rich washicu comes and wants and begs to be allowed to take part in ceremony and is willing to pay. There are many many of us who would tell him to hit the road. But thre are some who are more than willing to take the pay. I never heard of an Indian offering to pay. They come with respect not cash. A few years back the Tribal council In Pine Ridge forbade any washcu's dancing in Pine RIdge. We get rid of the whites from taking part, we get a good jump on getting rid of the sell outs.
I'd like to know who you are? I tried to look up your profile, but your age send N/A. What are you hiding? How old are you? I get the feeling you're some young kid.
Me: 44 y.o. I have completed my vow at four sun dances. I carry my families pipe which has been in my family over 100 years. I was taught sun dance, pipe, inipi,hanbleciya, and traditional songs since I was young. I wear my hair in two braids pass my belt to show my humility to Tunkasila Wakan Tanka. I served my country for eight years. I think I have to right to speak out and set that white boy in his place. And if you havent lived in Crow Dogs or my cousins life with all the hardships, you have no reason to pass judgement. I suggest you come live on Rosebud or Pine Ridge for awhile and just maybe you can begin to see the reasons why this is going on and that there are those of us who don't like. Don't you think for one moment that all Lakota's are selling out. Doksa Kola. Eya sni cesli.

eagleshield01 · 07-01-2003, 09:49 PM

Lil Dancer Foo Foo

Let me make it clear that my brother was summoned by the Lakota Elders to stop the Sun Dance In Georgia, not that the dance was in anyway sanctioned by the Lakota people.

Secondly, in refering to my people in the future, please refer to us as LAKOTA not Souix. Much obliged. Eagle Shield

wickedannabella · 07-01-2003, 09:53 PM

When I first saw the title of this thread I was a little taken aback and admit I popped in to see what was said.

I am very happy to see that the sanctity of the SUNDANCE is held very close to this day.

All I can say to the person who asked this question is, if you're lucky and priviledged, you will be invited to one. It's a life changing experience even from one who only prays.

**TaShunka Luta** · 07-02-2003, 12:24 PM

:clapping: dang Kola - I was gonna tag in but he didn't get up again after your initial slam! Pilamiya for your words ;)

**TaShunka Luta** · 07-02-2003, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by eagleshield01
Lil Dancer Foo Foo

Let me make it clear that my brother was summoned by the Lakota Elders to stop the Sun Dance In Georgia, not that the dance was in anyway sanctioned by the Lakota people.

Secondly, in refering to my people in the future, please refer to us as LAKOTA not Souix. Much obliged. Eagle Shield

lulullulululululululululululululululululu :Angel:

ndnkidz_5 · 07-02-2003, 02:51 PM

hummmmm....well I don't kno what to think I open this post to see what is was all about. I am California Indian and where I am from we do not have a "sundance", but I married a Lakota who dances. I support him cuz that what he wants to do. I do my own peoples ways and he supprts me....but niether of us try to pracitce the other one ways. Our kids do both. When we are staying back in South Dakota ...I stay with my mom in-law in Rapid while he is on the Rez. I bring up food, some days he wants the kids to be there I take them and my mom inlaw.

I was some what confused when I went there cuz I thought it was all Lakotas dancing. But some women asked me why wasnt' I dancing. I told them well I am happy with my own tradtions, and I am from California.. Many of then women said they not Lakota either. Infact many were not even American Indian, they were other cultrues but because they were "brown skin" no one question them. They all said they were part Indian -but not one of them met enrollement critiria.

I kept hearing some dancers, mosty young or non Lakotas talking "crap" about other Sundances. And after the Sundance I saw some of the dancers drinking while back in Rapid, just a few days after the dance.

When I asked my husband why were non-Lakotas dancing he siad well some time it's money to run a dance and "other indians" are let in cuz us Lakotas are too dang poor to do it ourselves. And for the young crap talkers, well every one wants to be "more indian " than they next guys. And the dancers that were drinking back in town.....just no dang respect.

I have also heard non Lakota Sundance in other state, California being one of them....I wounder how come????? As a native Cali....I wish they were nto happening......many Cali tribes have tradish....that are ours...and belong here in the state. Whatzzzz going on????

eagleshield01 · 07-02-2003, 11:07 PM

NDNKIDZ 5:

Thank you for your post. You have asked legitiment questions, based on your observations without making judgement first.

Perhaps an other and I could answer your questions. I have danced in SD and in the East. At both non-lakota were danc

06-24-2003, 03:15 PM	#24 (permalink)
Beaded_mocs Tiny Tot Dancer Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: turtle island Posts: 67	Blairman, Sundance is something you have to be there to know. but if you still wann awrite about it then go with those books __________________ "You know, sometimes it's a good day to die, and sometimes it's a good day to dance."

06-24-2003, 08:34 PM	#27 (permalink)
Ulinawi Tiny Tot Dancer Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Dirty South, SC Posts: 61	(hands covering mouth) lulululululululululululululu(whew)lulululululululu :Quiet :NoNo __________________ My tongue got wrapped around my eye teeth, and I couldn't see what I was saying...

06-25-2003, 02:35 AM	#28 (permalink)
LittleCricket PowWows.com Addicts Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: ~state of confusion~ Posts: 6,168	Luta..when you get out of the cafe for a moment..;) you really have something to say..:D __________________ Life is a mystery to be lived not a problem to be solved

07-01-2003, 09:53 PM	#32 (permalink)
wickedannabella Tiny Tot Dancer Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: chicago, IL Posts: 48	Whew When I first saw the title of this thread I was a little taken aback and admit I popped in to see what was said. I am very happy to see that the sanctity of the SUNDANCE is held very close to this day. All I can say to the person who asked this question is, if you're lucky and priviledged, you will be invited to one. It's a life changing experience even from one who only prays.

07-02-2003, 11:07 PM	#36 (permalink)
eagleshield01 Tiny Tot Dancer Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: GREENVILLE, SC Posts: 70	Sun Dance ?'s NDNKIDZ 5: Thank you for your post. You have asked legitiment questions, based on your observations without making judgement first. Perhaps an other and I could answer your questions. I have danced in SD and in the East. At both non-lakota were danc

06-24-2003, 12:01 PM	#21 (permalink)
eagleshield01 Tiny Tot Dancer Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: GREENVILLE, SC Posts: 70	Okay, anthro; I'm a sundancer from S.D. and have been singing at wiwanyang wacipi for over ten years. The sun dance is our holiest of holy's and it is not something that we discuss, especially to washicu. The dance and the things that happen at the dance cannot be understood and to speak of them only takes away from the mystery and the wakan. My suggestion is that you pray you come back as an NDN in your next life and hope you have the honor and privledge to dance, if you wasicu's haven't taken that away from us too. Wan Lakota Hoksila Wambli Wahacunka

06-24-2003, 01:41 PM	#22 (permalink)
hidatsachic24 Guest Posts: n/a	well said!!....like i said before switch topics based on native american community.......maybe do it on breast cancer in native community..thats something us native women been dealing with next to diabetes and obecity and domestic abuse....these topics i used to do various amounts of speeches on b/c people need to know its a serious problem within our communities..my moma is a survivor of breast cancer and so many people fight about blood quantem that they forget for awhile..like the last post befor me you shouldnt discuss about that topic if you know ziltch about it..well i think with all the responses you more than get the point..

06-24-2003, 01:50 PM	#23 (permalink)
hidatsachic24 Guest Posts: n/a	BTW: with the snake charmers that was a good oneroflamo but yall know snake taste just like chicken...and skin makes great boots...hehe me and my snake skin boots roflamo-becca

06-24-2003, 04:15 PM	#25 (permalink)
TaShunka Luta Not for the Weak & Timid Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: In your mind Posts: 4,534	I don't think ANYONE should be writing about the WiWang Wacipi for anyone outside of who it was intended for. Period. I don't even agree with it being taken and used by other tribes much less by the Wasicu who forced it underground in the first place, since the 1978 religious freedom act passed by Jimmy Carter we have tried to revive and keep our sacred ceremonies just that - SACRED. Not put on a shelf at a museum to be fondled, not put in a book to be fantasized about. You wanna write about something? Write about your own ways and your own beliefs. Write about the tradition that YOU have. Everyone has roots, everyone has tradition. Sometimes it's just easier to use someone elses. This is not welcomed. Not anymore.

06-24-2003, 07:52 PM	#26 (permalink)
tradish_wiyan plains n8tv Join Date: May 2003 Location: northern plains Posts: 1,093	Well said Tashunka:clap: :clapping:

07-01-2003, 06:10 PM	#29 (permalink)
lil dancer foo foo Pow Wow Visitor Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 10	Like why are you guys jumping on him for asking a question? After all you say it should not be talked about because it belongs to the sioux then who you think opened the dance to others in the first place? Don't blame others for that . And don't say that was in the past - peeps are still sharing and making a buck. Do the names Crow Dog and Running mean anything to you just to name two? Don't blame others for the mistakes of some tribal members, go after them for pete's sake.

07-01-2003, 09:39 PM	#30 (permalink)
eagleshield01 Tiny Tot Dancer Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: GREENVILLE, SC Posts: 70	Lil' Dancer Foo Foo Yeah I know who Crow Dog is (which one Henry or Leonard?) and Gilly Running is my Cousin. And I know what they are doing. Probably better than you. And if you think we are letting them get away with anything you are wrong. My twin brother stopped Norbert Runnings Sun Dance in Ga in the nineities because of the disrespect shown at that dance. Must of it was committed by washicus. And it was done on the orders of Lakota Elders. Damn right we shared are ceremonies with other Indian nations note i say Indian. Our whole way of life was being exterminated and we shared our beliefs with those who thought, acted, and behaved like us. We didnt share we our enemies, be they Indian or White. But When the dance came out of hiding in the 1970's, we chose to share with "all our relations". Our holiest of our holy men Mato Wambli (Frank Fools Crow) taught us that. It is unfortunate that things got carried away. Yes, those Lakota who have done hese things need to be and will be held responsible. But the washicu, especially those from Europe flood our reservation every summer with deep pockets and of course there will be those who sell out. What can you expect. On Pine Ridge we have an 70 - 80% unemployment rate. We live in the poorest county in the US. A rich washicu comes and wants and begs to be allowed to take part in ceremony and is willing to pay. There are many many of us who would tell him to hit the road. But thre are some who are more than willing to take the pay. I never heard of an Indian offering to pay. They come with respect not cash. A few years back the Tribal council In Pine Ridge forbade any washcu's dancing in Pine RIdge. We get rid of the whites from taking part, we get a good jump on getting rid of the sell outs. I'd like to know who you are? I tried to look up your profile, but your age send N/A. What are you hiding? How old are you? I get the feeling you're some young kid. Me: 44 y.o. I have completed my vow at four sun dances. I carry my families pipe which has been in my family over 100 years. I was taught sun dance, pipe, inipi,hanbleciya, and traditional songs since I was young. I wear my hair in two braids pass my belt to show my humility to Tunkasila Wakan Tanka. I served my country for eight years. I think I have to right to speak out and set that white boy in his place. And if you havent lived in Crow Dogs or my cousins life with all the hardships, you have no reason to pass judgement. I suggest you come live on Rosebud or Pine Ridge for awhile and just maybe you can begin to see the reasons why this is going on and that there are those of us who don't like. Don't you think for one moment that all Lakota's are selling out. Doksa Kola. Eya sni cesli.

07-01-2003, 09:49 PM	#31 (permalink)
eagleshield01 Tiny Tot Dancer Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: GREENVILLE, SC Posts: 70	Lil Dancer Foo Foo Let me make it clear that my brother was summoned by the Lakota Elders to stop the Sun Dance In Georgia, not that the dance was in anyway sanctioned by the Lakota people. Secondly, in refering to my people in the future, please refer to us as LAKOTA not Souix. Much obliged. Eagle Shield

07-02-2003, 12:24 PM	#33 (permalink)
TaShunka Luta Not for the Weak & Timid Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: In your mind Posts: 4,534	:clapping: dang Kola - I was gonna tag in but he didn't get up again after your initial slam! Pilamiya for your words ;)

07-02-2003, 02:51 PM	#35 (permalink)
ndnkidz_5 Registered User Join Date: May 2003 Location: in cali Posts: 342	hummmmm....well I don't kno what to think I open this post to see what is was all about. I am California Indian and where I am from we do not have a "sundance", but I married a Lakota who dances. I support him cuz that what he wants to do. I do my own peoples ways and he supprts me....but niether of us try to pracitce the other one ways. Our kids do both. When we are staying back in South Dakota ...I stay with my mom in-law in Rapid while he is on the Rez. I bring up food, some days he wants the kids to be there I take them and my mom inlaw. I was some what confused when I went there cuz I thought it was all Lakotas dancing. But some women asked me why wasnt' I dancing. I told them well I am happy with my own tradtions, and I am from California.. Many of then women said they not Lakota either. Infact many were not even American Indian, they were other cultrues but because they were "brown skin" no one question them. They all said they were part Indian -but not one of them met enrollement critiria. I kept hearing some dancers, mosty young or non Lakotas talking "crap" about other Sundances. And after the Sundance I saw some of the dancers drinking while back in Rapid, just a few days after the dance. When I asked my husband why were non-Lakotas dancing he siad well some time it's money to run a dance and "other indians" are let in cuz us Lakotas are too dang poor to do it ourselves. And for the young crap talkers, well every one wants to be "more indian " than they next guys. And the dancers that were drinking back in town.....just no dang respect. I have also heard non Lakota Sundance in other state, California being one of them....I wounder how come????? As a native Cali....I wish they were nto happening......many Cali tribes have tradish....that are ours...and belong here in the state. Whatzzzz going on????