Allogagan Nimat

I have been searching the internet for about 2 weeks looking for raven feathers. Do you know where I could find some?

OLChemist

I would suggest you acquaint yourself with the Migratory Bird Treaty Act.

http://migratorybirds.fws.gov/intrnl...a/cnvntion.pdf

tsuj510

osiyo!

I checked it out, and determined that they are 'protected' but what does that actually mean? Are you saying that you have to have a card to carry these?

WocusWoman

We have alot of ravens up here in Alaska; they are protected, it is illegal to kill them. Occasionally they are hit by cars, but I find them to be very intelligent birds. Often I will find a feather or two laying at the dump, cuz they love to eat scraps there. You would be ill-advised trying to get or buy them. I have alot of respect for these birds, and so should you.

tsuj510

I certainly do have alot of respect for them.

BUT..

Is it legal or illegal to carry their feathers in the US?

WaDo

WocusWoman

Call the California fish and game office, they will tell you. I did that here, when I wanted to find out about old swan feathers I was given. I was allowed to use them, as long as they were used like my eagle feathers, as part of my regalia for cermonial purposes.

OLChemist

"The MBTA provides that it is unlawful to pursue, hunt, take, capture, kill, possess, sell, purchase, barter, import, export, or transport any migratory bird, or any part, nest, or egg or any such bird, unless authorized under a permit issued by the Secretary of the Interior."

From the summary page on the MBTA

http://www.fws.gov/permits/mbpermits/ActSummaries.html

My reading of the law is that you must have an appropriate permit from Fish and Wildlife to possess any part of a bird covered by the MBTA -- including molted feathers. There are some exceptions to this, however they are few and far between.

Further it is my understanding that strictly speaking, a CDIB and/or enrollment card is not enough alone. In addition, you need a federally issued permit.

Not to be rude, but I am going to offer my opinion of the use of protected species feathers: If you have have NO genuine RELIGIOUS need for the feathers, then you have NO legitimate need for these kinds of feathers. The lives and powers of these animals do not exist for our pleasure or our human ends. In my book, blood doesn't enter in the equation. If these feathers don't have a special place in your religion, then why would some other type of feather not be adequate?

Sorry, if I offend.

WocusWoman

I agree whole-heartedly with Olchemist's statement, well put!

sookout sh'nob

Illegal - but rarely enforced (I had a few summer gigs as an MNR/DNR worker)

Officials tend to turn a blind eye as long as the feathers are made into a ceremonial object or shown to be revered by thier "packaging." The written law is one thing, what actually goes down is another.

I wouldn't sweat the law too much - the creator has ways around the legislative and executive branches. As long as you display the proper respect you should be cool. If you can prove religious affiliation with a sweat lodge or a group of native folks you're generally cool too - proof is generally thier sworn oral testimony - it's too much red tape for most officials (forms in triplicate, reports, follow up reports).

tsuj510

That's cool-thanks for the information. I have been inolved with powwows for years are rarely if ever see this (guys carrying crow or raven feathers) and wondered why. I was raised by a family who had been involved with powwows, so Momma made sure I got educated about protocol and such. I know that there are guys out there that aren't raised in these ways, so I appreicate your saying something. Any time I put together an outfilt I really put a lot of thought and prayer into and dont just throw just anything together. I'm not affiliated with any sweats per se, as the REAL ones are just too tough to find in Oakland, CA, but I am trying to make a good name for myself in the community out here and am grateful for you sharing your knowledge.

paula g

Two tiny, old native women told me this and I thought I was being sent on a wild goose (wild raven) chase. But this works. Since real raven fathers are illegal to sell, you have to get a little creative to get them.

Remember: Ravens have pointed tails and more pointed-tipped feathers, crows are a little smaller and have rounded tails and more rounded-tipped feathers.

In the spring, when deer are totally focused on mating, a lot of deer get hit by cars. When you see a dead deer, if there are ravens in the area, they will come to fight over the corpse. Check around the dead deer for raven feathers.

No joke, I made a beautiful dreamcatcher of black leather and sinew, with 9 raven feathers and chunks of raw amber.

anishtradish

Just use em if you find em. Just don't try to sell them, or anything made with them, and you should be fine. It's the same way with almost anything. The feds arn't going to knock your door down over some raven feathers.


Otherwise just use crow feathers, most states have hunting seasons on them so Im sure u can possess the feathers, or just go on ebay and type in "Rook feathers" "jackdaw feathers" or "hooded crow", European species that you can legally buy. You can get magpie feathers the same way.

__________________
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Noyaha

Someone just sold a bunch of them on ebay. And they went for a rather HIGH price.......so my guess would be, the "authorities"......you know....those who come to this country and presume to tell us what we may or may not use as religious items.......could obviously care less.......