Old Style Sioux

Beadworker · 11-16-2005, 09:57 PM

Hello to all - I'm looking for information about Old Style Sioux dancing. It was all the rage at hobbyiest/BSA powwows 25-30 years ago, but to my knowledge, nobody was doing it much in the Indian world.

It's still popular with the BSA, and I want to know if anybody knows anything about its popularity on the current powwow scene, particularly on the northern plains, especially at Indian powwows. In 30 years of powwowing around the southern plains, I've never seen anything remotely like the classic old style look; it's all contemporary tradish, which shares some obvious characteristics, but old style it ain't.

So somebody who's on the ground in the north help me out - is old style showing up, or is it juust another hobbyist/BSA affectation? Thanks for the help.

**Wojapi4Me** · 11-17-2005, 09:06 AM

Many of the older guys in South Dakota dance this style, but few wear the outfit associated with it. Most wear what I call the Lakota traditional outfit...nice beaded stuff, but not contemporary look...if that makes sense. The outfit you're talking about that can be seen in those old museum photos is pretty much nonexistent.

quicksilverwade · 11-25-2005, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Singerdad

Many of the older guys in South Dakota dance this style, but few wear the outfit associated with it. Most wear what I call the Lakota traditional outfit...nice beaded stuff, but not contemporary look...if that makes sense. The outfit you're talking about that can be seen in those old museum photos is pretty much nonexistent.

I remember Michael Ziegler and his see through britches.

**Joe's Dad** · 11-25-2005, 10:27 PM

Dang QSW. I was thinking about this dude the other day. Saw him in a dance-off once with Oliver Printup. Oliver won.

Beadworker · 11-26-2005, 05:39 PM

Thank you Quicksilverwade and Joe's Dad for contributing nothing meaningful to the discussion. I'm asking serious questions and would appreciate serious responses. If all you're going to do is waste my time, go somewhere esle.

**andre** · 11-26-2005, 06:06 PM

Uh-oh....

**Joe's Dad** · 11-30-2005, 01:14 AM

First. from Rapid, take Hwy 79 south to Hermosa. Turn left on the road to Redshirt. On the other side of Redshirt Talbe, turn right, the turn left on the next road. Cross over the White River and go past Loneman School. At the end of that road, turn left through Oglala and go about 14 miles. From Chadron, take the road through Slim Buttes. You'll find your answer there.

Now... I made a comment about a Northern Traditional dancer whose name I've not heard in a long time. I did not say anything derogatory about you or your topic. Where do you get off on telling me where, what and when I can post. Why do you think you can come on this public forum, and on your SECOND post, chasitize me. I did not waste your time. Sounds like you are not a young person. Neither am I. I've met alot of nice people on the road, you do not sound like you are nice.

Hope you find your answers.

Moderators and to others on this site. I apologize to you for this post. But, I do not feel that this person's response was warranted. Again, I apologize.

That is all I have to say.

Jim

Privateer6 · 11-30-2005, 01:32 PM

Beadworker,
Now you done it, you ticked off one of the most laid back, easy going, and knowledgeable members of the website. Becasue this is a public chat people will go off topic a little by talking about people they know, events they went to, etc that are indirectly connected to the main topic. You need to go witht he flow and relax.

As for your question, Old Style is mostly a Boy Scout thing. Within the past5 years, I have only seen 1 Old Style outfit outside of a Boy Scout event. That one outfit was on display by an elder at a powwow and was used in his class. Later on, he did wear the bustle, but had on his traditional clothes on with it, and this was for show.

**billyjoejimbob** · 11-30-2005, 05:51 PM

Boy Scouts like to prance around in their undies.

The only actual NDN i ever saw wear something CLOSE to the old style outfit was Calvin Jumping Bull in 1995 or 1997.

That is a popular dance outfit because of the boy scouts and hobbyists. There are many different educational articles about it from the 60's and 70's. BSA traditions die hard.

Some people actually wear it out of respect, or at least thats what they are thinking.

The Rock · 11-30-2005, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beadworker

Thank you Quicksilverwade and Joe's Dad for contributing nothing meaningful to the discussion. I'm asking serious questions and would appreciate serious responses. If all you're going to do is waste my time, go somewhere esle.

You're not very nice....

This post is not a serious response Beadworker....

DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME READING IT!!!

There....is that better...

sheesh....undies all bunched up in't....

Singerdad pretty much said what I was gonna anyway...

Mato Winyan · 11-30-2005, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe's Dad

First. from Rapid, take Hwy 79 south to Hermosa. Turn left on the road to Redshirt. On the other side of Redshirt Talbe, turn right, the turn left on the next road. Cross over the White River and go past Loneman School. At the end of that road, turn left through Oglala and go about 14 miles. From Chadron, take the road through Slim Buttes. You'll find your answer there.

Now... I made a comment about a Northern Traditional dancer whose name I've not heard in a long time. I did not say anything derogatory about you or your topic. Where do you get off on telling me where, what and when I can post. Why do you think you can come on this public forum, and on your SECOND post, chasitize me. I did not waste your time. Sounds like you are not a young person. Neither am I. I've met alot of nice people on the road, you do not sound like you are nice.

Hope you find your answers.

Moderators and to others on this site. I apologize to you for this post. But, I do not feel that this person's response was warranted. Again, I apologize.

That is all I have to say.

Jim

First let me say I usually would handle this by sending a private message but this time I feel the need to speak out.

JD no need to apologize ....... you did nothing wrong. And in fact in your response........ I think you handled it in a good manner, not that my opinion means anything, just showing you some love....

Anyway...... yeah....... Like was said. People do get side tracked some...... hell.... I've highjacked more than one thread myself! ( back in the day when I had a partner in crime we made a habit of it in fact! )

Now if it had went on and on....... then I would say that it would have been the time to say something........but man.......the first comments? naw..... give people a break. Things are getting to serious on here and time is too short to police every post. In fact..... I'll step out on this one here.......... it's things like this that is keeping some very knowledgeable people from adding to this site by not responding for fear of getting jumped on. Come on people......... lighten up!!

sunbursthonor · 11-30-2005, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billyjoejimbob

Boy Scouts like to prance around in their undies.

Hey! Hey! Hey! Make sure you remember not all Boy Scouts do that! Give some of us a little bit of credit. I started off as an old-styler until I found out that wasn't my place.

redthunder · 11-30-2005, 10:37 PM

Why should we give the boy scouts credit? Sure they "dance" at powwows, but so what? A lot of them arent even knowledgeable enough to dance. I mean, you should atleast know what you're doing, and look good while doing it.

Sometimes the BS are offensive.

sookout sh'nob · 12-01-2005, 01:24 AM

Sweet,now i know who's in charge of saying who can and can't dance... muwah!

Quote:

Originally Posted by redthunder

Why should we give the boy scouts credit? Sure they "dance" at powwows, but so what? A lot of them arent even knowledgeable enough to dance. I mean, you should atleast know what you're doing, and look good while doing it.

Sometimes the BS are offensive.

11-16-2005, 09:57 PM	#1 (permalink)
Beadworker Pow Wow Visitor Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 2	Old Style Sioux Hello to all - I'm looking for information about Old Style Sioux dancing. It was all the rage at hobbyiest/BSA powwows 25-30 years ago, but to my knowledge, nobody was doing it much in the Indian world. It's still popular with the BSA, and I want to know if anybody knows anything about its popularity on the current powwow scene, particularly on the northern plains, especially at Indian powwows. In 30 years of powwowing around the southern plains, I've never seen anything remotely like the classic old style look; it's all contemporary tradish, which shares some obvious characteristics, but old style it ain't. So somebody who's on the ground in the north help me out - is old style showing up, or is it juust another hobbyist/BSA affectation? Thanks for the help.

11-17-2005, 09:06 AM	#2 (permalink)
Wojapi4Me Kili! Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Tha Rez Posts: 1,518	Many of the older guys in South Dakota dance this style, but few wear the outfit associated with it. Most wear what I call the Lakota traditional outfit...nice beaded stuff, but not contemporary look...if that makes sense. The outfit you're talking about that can be seen in those old museum photos is pretty much nonexistent. __________________ If pro is the opposite of con, then wouldn't progress be the opposite of...lol

11-25-2005, 10:27 PM	#4 (permalink)
Joe's Dad What a naughty kitty!!! Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: I'm right here! Posts: 8,896	Dang QSW. I was thinking about this dude the other day. Saw him in a dance-off once with Oliver Printup. Oliver won. __________________ Why must I feel like that..why must I chase the cat?

11-26-2005, 06:06 PM	#6 (permalink)
andre Cratertot Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Fresh from the fryer Posts: 19,439	Uh-oh.... __________________ A tater tot is worth a thousand fries.

11-30-2005, 01:14 AM	#7 (permalink)
Joe's Dad What a naughty kitty!!! Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: I'm right here! Posts: 8,896	Slow Down, Cowboy! First. from Rapid, take Hwy 79 south to Hermosa. Turn left on the road to Redshirt. On the other side of Redshirt Talbe, turn right, the turn left on the next road. Cross over the White River and go past Loneman School. At the end of that road, turn left through Oglala and go about 14 miles. From Chadron, take the road through Slim Buttes. You'll find your answer there. Now... I made a comment about a Northern Traditional dancer whose name I've not heard in a long time. I did not say anything derogatory about you or your topic. Where do you get off on telling me where, what and when I can post. Why do you think you can come on this public forum, and on your SECOND post, chasitize me. I did not waste your time. Sounds like you are not a young person. Neither am I. I've met alot of nice people on the road, you do not sound like you are nice. Hope you find your answers. Moderators and to others on this site. I apologize to you for this post. But, I do not feel that this person's response was warranted. Again, I apologize. That is all I have to say. Jim __________________ Why must I feel like that..why must I chase the cat?

11-26-2005, 05:39 PM	#5 (permalink)
Beadworker Pow Wow Visitor Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 2	Thank you Quicksilverwade and Joe's Dad for contributing nothing meaningful to the discussion. I'm asking serious questions and would appreciate serious responses. If all you're going to do is waste my time, go somewhere esle.

11-30-2005, 01:32 PM	#8 (permalink)
Privateer6 Like my new toy? Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Cylon occupied North Carolina Posts: 775	Beadworker, Now you done it, you ticked off one of the most laid back, easy going, and knowledgeable members of the website. Becasue this is a public chat people will go off topic a little by talking about people they know, events they went to, etc that are indirectly connected to the main topic. You need to go witht he flow and relax. As for your question, Old Style is mostly a Boy Scout thing. Within the past5 years, I have only seen 1 Old Style outfit outside of a Boy Scout event. That one outfit was on display by an elder at a powwow and was used in his class. Later on, he did wear the bustle, but had on his traditional clothes on with it, and this was for show.

11-30-2005, 05:51 PM	#9 (permalink)
billyjoejimbob Fat Singer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: white guy land Posts: 1,526	Boy Scouts like to prance around in their undies. The only actual NDN i ever saw wear something CLOSE to the old style outfit was Calvin Jumping Bull in 1995 or 1997. That is a popular dance outfit because of the boy scouts and hobbyists. There are many different educational articles about it from the 60's and 70's. BSA traditions die hard. Some people actually wear it out of respect, or at least thats what they are thinking.

11-30-2005, 10:37 PM	#13 (permalink)
redthunder Powwow King Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 484	Why should we give the boy scouts credit? Sure they "dance" at powwows, but so what? A lot of them arent even knowledgeable enough to dance. I mean, you should atleast know what you're doing, and look good while doing it. Sometimes the BS are offensive. __________________ I'm interested more in self determination than gender equity. In other words, changing white men for white woman in the structures of power, does nothing to transform the opression in my community. "You need to find yourself a girl, mate... Or, perhaps the reason you practice three hours a day is that you already found one and are otherwise incapable of wooing said strumpet. You're not a eunuch, are you? [looks down]" -Captain Jack Sparrow