redthunder

Hey everyone. I currently have a mop top, made of turkey, soon going to make a crow one. Im just worried on how people will react to me wearing one. I have got several elders permission as to wearing one. I will be powwowing up in MN this summer. White Earth, Prarie island, Cass lake, Ballclub, places liek that. Will i be okay wearing one?

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I'm interested more in self determination than gender equity. In other words, changing white men for white woman in the structures of power, does nothing to transform the opression in my community.


"You need to find yourself a girl, mate... Or, perhaps the reason you practice three hours a day is that you already found one and are otherwise incapable of wooing said strumpet. You're not a eunuch, are you? [looks down]"
-Captain Jack Sparrow

tigger

i would learn the meaning and traditions behind it. and where they started from. but as for dancing with on i have never seen anyone have any problems yet

redthunder

Yep, i do know some what of the origins of it. Dog Soldier society. (I know it's more complex then that)

__________________
I'm interested more in self determination than gender equity. In other words, changing white men for white woman in the structures of power, does nothing to transform the opression in my community.


"You need to find yourself a girl, mate... Or, perhaps the reason you practice three hours a day is that you already found one and are otherwise incapable of wooing said strumpet. You're not a eunuch, are you? [looks down]"
-Captain Jack Sparrow

Wojapi4Me

My standard reply to questions about this and other society wear is: If you have to ask, you don't have permission.

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If pro is the opposite of con, then wouldn't progress be the opposite of...lol

sookout sh'nob

True that, but it's not society gear where Redthunder and i are from... it's just another personal form of expression in the form of a hat.

The question , then, would be is the man emulating a whole dog soldier look or does he just dog on that kind of hat?

Even then, there used to be a lot of intertribal powwows and other gatherings/meetings way back when people would trade things as a matter of practice. That's how that modern dance regalia got the way it is with all those accessries and things. Everyone was trading around and pretty soon people who didn't wear breastplatews and roaches were wearin breastplates and roaches. What i'm sayin is, the hat may have outgrown it's perceived roots and has since moved on to greeener pasture.

Seriously, make the hat and pike what all the internet indians say. If you need any crowfeathers, i've got hundreds of em in the spare room :) be happy to mail some your way.

Tom Iron Eagle

This was discussed sometime ago. It would appear that if one really thought about it one would realize that a great deal of clothing of a warrior was specific and much of it needed permission to be worn.

It had been said on this site several times that if you went back in time far enough one would realize that even the Hair Roach was specific Warrior Head Gear and could not be worn by just anyone.

And many were many things including clothing that does not fit thier Tribe or even Cultural Area.

It is a great time of vast sharing and modernization that is only growing more and more.

Wojapi4Me

If there is a "hat" thats worn in this fashion where you guys are from, that is great. Maybe redthunder should learn about it and its origins instead of a Dog Soldier headdress from the Mandan and Hidatsa. If he's talking about the latter, then it would be considered society wear no matter where you're located. The jingle dress is still Ojibwe no matter if the dancer is from Minnesota, Wisconsin, or even Hawaii.

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If pro is the opposite of con, then wouldn't progress be the opposite of...lol

redthunder

Lmao, actually i'm in hawaii. But anyways, the argumeant most of teh elders i have taled to were, pow wow regalia, is a clash from various cultures. He then said that Dine's arent pow wow people, but you have them dancing and singing at pow wows. Also, what Tom Iron Eagle said, to wear a roach you had to have a special ceremony, now people are just making them left and right.

__________________
I'm interested more in self determination than gender equity. In other words, changing white men for white woman in the structures of power, does nothing to transform the opression in my community.


"You need to find yourself a girl, mate... Or, perhaps the reason you practice three hours a day is that you already found one and are otherwise incapable of wooing said strumpet. You're not a eunuch, are you? [looks down]"
-Captain Jack Sparrow

sookout sh'nob

That's what i meant to imply - thanks for clarifying! :D

The big difference here might be that the jingle dress is a publicly shared gift, and was never a mark of rank or status on a society.

There are actually many, mant different hats similar to a mop top worn in that style - most notably, and perhaps even emblamic of our culture, would be made of partridge tails.

The true classics never really do go ot of style ;)

naabkwaanshiinh

gustoweh.

Are you talking about a gustoweh?

sookout sh'nob

Nope. A "mop top" typically has hundreds of feathers on it (if it's made from crow feathers) It sorta looks like a big feather afro...sorta.

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Mii iw keyaa ezhi-ditibiseyaan

Historian

There is well known painting done by Karl Bodmer in 1833, of Perhiska Ruhpa or Two Ravens, a sash-wearer and leader of the Hidatsa Dog Society in his village, which was published in the book titled, Travels In The Interior Of North America During The Years 1832-1834 written by Prince Maximilian von Wied, illustrated by Karl Bodmer. The painting, shown below, shows that the headdress feathers are a mixture of Magpie tail feathers with small white plumes attached to the tips, and Turkey tail feathers with dyed horsehair on the tips.



I would like to point out, that before anyone goes making a "mop-top" or "Mandan" headdress, you might want to do some research as to why this type of headdress was worn, and the type of warriors that wore them.

To start with, many Plains tribes had warrior societies with particular characteristics, membership qualifications, duties, and pieces of their regalia that only society members wore after earning that right to wear it.

Besides the Hidatsa Dog Society, there was also a Dog Men Society among the Arapaho, and they had sash-wearers as well.

The Mandan had a Crazy Dog Society with three members entitled to be sash wearers.

Among the Kiowa they had a society called Principal Dogs or Real Dogs, and the two leaders would be designated as sash-wearers.

The Gros Ventre had a Dog Society and all the members were sash-wearers.

The Arikara had a Young Dogs Society and all the members were sash-wearers also.

Among the Crow, they had a Big Dog Society, Muddy Hands Society, Raven Owners Society, Little Dog Society, and a Crazy Dog Society that all had sash-wearer positions amongst their members.

To give you an idea of what it meant to be a member of a warrior society, here are some details of some of the Lakota Warrior Societies active in the buffalo days.

Toka'la, or Fox, or Sly Fox Society
Members of this society were said to be as agile and clever in battle as is the fox. The members would wear a fox pelt like a yoke, with the head hanging in front and the tail hanging in back. Warriors or iki'cize who joined this society pledged to uphold the high ideals of bravery, generosity, and honor. Fox-men as they were called, were noted for their care and concern for the tribe in peaceful times as well as in times of war, and if something was needed to be done, no matter what the danger or difficulty, they frequently were the first to volunteer. The Toka'la was one of the societies from whose members, were frequently chosen to serve as Aki'cita. Aki'cita has often been translated as "soldier," but it's implied meaning is more like "guard" or "police." These Aki'cita would act as "guards" and watch over the tribe when the tribe moved from one place to another and keep watch for enemy activity when a camp was chosen. Aki'cita also acted as "civil police" to preserve order in the camp, and had the right to punish offenders of tribal codes of conduct. Warriors chosen to serve as Aki'cita also had the responsibility to maintain strict control during a buffalo hunt.

Kangi'yuha, or Crow Owners Society
One of the societies whose members were chosen to serve as Aki'cita, Crow Owners or "those that owned the crow," were proven and successful warriors. They emulated the crow, who was always first to arrive and take advantage of the carcus of a dead animal or a dead warrior on the battlefield. The members of the Crow Owners believed that by wearing a stuffed crow wrapped around their neck when they went into battle, their arrows would fly as straight and true as a crow is known to fly, and they would be first to claim honors against the enemy. It was the Crow Owners who often were selected to assist in the selection of suitable places for winter camps.

Cante'tinza, or Strong Heart, or Brave Heart Society
The purpose of the Strong Hearts were to be physically, emotionally, and spiritually capable of taking care of any emergency that would affect the tribe. Members had to pledge to codes of good moral character including self-control of one's actions and emotions, to be fearless in defense of the tribe, to take care of the poor and needy, and to be always ready at a moment's notice. One of the more prominent pieces of society regalia for Strong Heart members was an eagle feather headdress with a pair of buffalo horns, one on either side. Strong Hearts also served as Aki'cita when it was their turn.

Iho'ka or Badger Society
Another Aki'cita eligible society, the Badgers were said to have been started by a man who dreamed of a badger. Members were said to be amongst the most extreme warriors. They often took great risks against seemingly insurmountable odds, emulating the great tanacity found in the behavior of a badger, who will not think twice about going nose to nose with a bear ten times it's size, and winning the fight. Among the notable insignia of this society are the society's crooked lances wrapped in wolf skin, quirts with one serated edge and otter fur wrist loops, and otter skin yokes, which were later adorned with trade mirrors to blind the enemy.

Sotka'yuha, or Bare Lance Owners Society
This was another society with very old origins. The symbolic "bare lance" was a straight lance with no war honors, eagerly waiting for each young warrior to accumulate their respective honors to be displayed. Young warriors would begin to test themselves in this society, although the membership was said to be limited to not more than twenty-four at any one time.

Miwa'tani or Mandan Society
Sometimes referred to as the "Tall Ones" or the "Owl Feather Headdress" society, or the "No Flight" society. The members of this society were "exempt" from serving Aki'cita duties. The society was very old, even in the buffalo days, and was said to have originated by a man who dreamed of an owl-being. Admission into the society was difficult, because one of the requirements was that each member pledge to sacrifice his own life in battle if need be, to save a wounded member. A notable feature of this society was the four "sash-wearer" positions. The wearers of the "society sashes" took on the obligation to stake themselves down to the ground with their sash during a desperate battle, as a signal that they would die in that spot, rather than submit to the enemy. They would fight in that spot till they were killed, or until a fellow society member released them.

Sunk'ska akan'yanka, or White Horse Riders Society
The White Horse Riders were primarily older, experienced warriors who would paint their many war exploits on their white horses for the enemy to see plainly from a distance. These older warriors also saw to it that the families of wounded warriors, who could not hunt because of their injuries, never went hungry.

Oma'ha, or Grass Dance Society
The origins of this society originate with traditions among the Omaha tribe, and an early component of the society included rites involving a healing ceremony which included the Grass Dance. The Horse Dance and the Kettle Dance also have their origins within this society. The evolution of two of the most notable features of this society, the hair roach and the crow belt or feathered bustle, can still be seen at most intertribal Pow-Wows today.

Wi'ciska, or White Marked Society
The White Marked society alludes to the many "white" golden eagle tail feather war honors (actually white with black tips), each member had. Society membership was made up of well established warriors with extensive experience, their feathered headdresses were impressive, with trailers extending to the ground, and each member had a robe or blanket with a quilled or beaded strip attached.

Keep in mind that the Lakota Aki'cita was not a society. As I understand it, at the beginning of the summer buffalo hunt, the leaders of a camp (members of the "Big Belly" or "Bulls" society) would select four members of one of the warrior societies to serve in the positions of head Aki'cita for that season. These four head Aki'cita would then choose other members from their particular warrior society, to serve as Aki'cita as the needs arose. The following season, the camp leaders would select four members from a different warrior society to serve as head Aki'cita, and the cycle would continue like that.

While it was not unusual for a warrior to belong to more than one warrior society in his lifetime, as he gained experience and honors, it would be highly unusual to belong to more than one warrior society at the same time. Some warrior societies were for a certain age group, others were for experienced warriors, while still others were for the new warriors looking to prove themselves.


In 1921 there was an interesting article published on the Cheyenne Dog Soldiers.


THE CHEYENNE DOG SOLDIERS
By W. S. Campbell
Chronicles of Oklahoma - Volume 1, No. 1 - January, 1921

Of all the typical Plains tribes, the Cheyennes were most distinguished for warlike qualities. Few in number, they overcame or held in check most of the peoples who opposed them, and when the westward movement of European civilization began, they made more trouble than all the rest combined. In short, they were preeminently warriors among peoples whose trade was war.

As in other prairie tribes, the warriors of the Cheyenne were organized into societies or orders. These societies were fraternal, military, and semi-religious organizations with special privileges, duties, and dress, usually tracing their origin to some mythical culture hero or medicine man. Each society had its own songs and secret ritual, and exacted certain observances and standards of its members.

Of these organizations, none has played such a part in the history of the Plains as the “Dog Soldiers” of the Cheyenne. It is the purpose of this short paper to outline the origin, customs and history of this society of warriors.

The best version of the story of its origin is that recorded by Dorsey(1), and is as follows:

continued...

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"Be good, be kind, help each other."
"Respect the ground, respect the drum, respect each other."
--Abe Conklin, Ponca/Osage (1926-1995)

Historian