let's talk bustles!!!

eutrinka · 12-23-2003, 12:12 AM

Ok if you have seen the thread "let's talk roaches" I want to create a similar thread about bustles!

What region did the bustle originate from?

What tribe(s) originally wore the bustle?

Who was allowed to wear a bustle?

What are different materials are bustles made of?

Ok if you can post pictures of your bustle or a bustle you relay like. And discuss how you made your bustle.

I hope this turns out to be a good thread!
Eutrinka

WhoMe · 12-23-2003, 10:46 AM

_____

Okay, I guess I will go first.

_____

The term bustle is an English word used to describe the bunched material on the back of a formal long dress.

Each tribe that had the bustle called the bustle by its tribal name.

The people of the great plains were responsible for it's diffusion.

The Umonhon (Omaha) tribe were popularly known to have one of the earliest forms of bustles for their grass dance society. The Gros Ventre had the earliest form of round eagle tail bustle.

Grass dance leaders wore a "Crow Bustle" to signify their title. Dancers who did not have this right, tucked tufts of grass in their belts and moccasins - Hence, the "Grass Dance."

The earliest Crow Bustles were made of bird of prey feathers. This included eagle, hawk, falcon and even owl feathers. The actual body of a raven/crow was tied next to the bustle.

As the bustle spread to other northern tribes they adapted different structural differences.

In the 1700's the pheasant was introduced to the plains from Europe. It too was used to make early bustles. These unique feathers were prized because of their thinness and banding.

___

Next . . .

**Kakeeya** · 12-23-2003, 07:23 PM

Show off! :Chatter

:D Just kidding!!

Steve StopsOnTime · 12-23-2003, 07:55 PM

Why don't southern straight dancers wear bustles??

Str8Dancer49 · 12-23-2003, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Steve StopsOnTime
Why don't southern straight dancers wear bustles??

We don't wear them so all our snags can check out our flat NDN a$$es......

Actually, WhoMe has it..... Straight dance clothes developed from the dress clothes of non-bustle wearers (minus the grass), though the otter tail also had war honors associated with it, especially when it was attached to a bear claw necklace.

Some additional info to go with what WhoMe said.... on the opposite side from the crow skin was a wolf tail, and the two spikes sticking up symbolized arrows in the bodies of the fallen. The whole thing was a battle field after a battle, hence the predatory and scavenging birds used.

Also, old bustles ALWAYS used two trailers, cause men wore them on their horse (both in battle and when acting as hunt police), with one trailer falling on each side of the horse. I think the single trailers got started in South Dakota in the 1920s.

Tom Iron Eagle · 01-12-2004, 11:41 AM

Excellent Post there WhoMe!

Fantastic and accurate information and very well said.

Strong Eagle · 01-14-2004, 05:16 PM

well any way, my name is Evan, n im from oregon and am 14 years old.I'm from the Kiowa/Comanche/Lakota/Cherokee nations but i also have adopted Makah. Last sept. (2003) i was bull riding n got bucked off and broke my neck.i dislocated c1 c2, shattered the disc tween c3 c4, n broke c4 c5 but i didnt get any damage to my spinal cord, just some swelling around it but i can walk almost normal again. but i cant ride bulls any more so im goin to start dancing in mens northern trad. one of my uncles is making me a double row bustle, he said cuz its my first 1, he's going to make it out of all goose or goose and hawk.if he is going to make the outter row w/ goose no matter what and im going to have him put white fluffs on the end w/ horse hair off the fluffs. then if we use goose 4 the center row then im going to have him put white buckskin circles on the end, but if we use hawk we're going to leave the ends plane. then 4 the center of the bustle im going to have him bead a medicine wheel then bead 4 eagle feathers off of the wheel, then light blue in the open parts of the wheel and around the wheel/feathers. then im going to have another uncle make me a 12" nat. color roach w. 2 spreaders that r beaded the light blue then the center of the roach to the end my grandmother is going to bead it light blue w/ a creators eyes and beaded eagle feathers down the center. then a blue ribbon shirt, then im going to carry a eagle fan in the left hand and a large medicne wheel my grandmother made me in the right hand. but do u know any web sites i can go to that show good pics of men northern trad. ragaila? specially the bustle i could use 4 a model. thanks alot, bye
Strong Eagle
Evan Ferns

Strong Eagle · 01-15-2004, 01:21 PM

i already got my ideas started i just wanted to see sum pics of others. and i've looked already in the powwows gallierys and they r good. i drew up a pic design of what i want in the middle of my bustle, so go to www.Indiancenter.net or .org or .com, i 4get which one, but its the site of a center i belong to, the Southern Oregon Indian Center or SOIC, pernounced in abb. SO-ICk....but u navagate through the site, u should see the centers costom design. im going to use that cept the circle the sourounds soic im going to devide it up in the 4 colors of the four directions red,white,red, and yellow. then the soic letters im going to bead each letter 4 each of the colors,S will be red, O will be black,I will be yellow, and C will be White, then in the open areas of the inside of the circle w/ be light blue (the whole center beaded) then im going to use cananadian goose feathers 4 the outter row of the big row w/ white fluffs w/ dark horse hair off the fluffs then the innter row will be real hawk. then all the dowls w/ be a blue yarn. then my spreads will be beaded in a light blue like the bustle center then down the middle of the roach will be a big beaded eagle feather then 4 my two roach spreaders im going to use hawk. then 4 my fan will be hawk that one of my uncles is gifting me (along w/ the bustle and roach hawk feathers) then a big (1 1/2 ft from side to side medince wheel w/ a hawk feather in the middle. then a eagle feather im going to tie on to it that i was gifted. so it will be a cool ragailia! let me know what u think..thanks
Strong Eagle
Evan

eutrinka · 02-28-2004, 06:55 PM

well your bustle idea sounds grate. the details you gave, gave me an idea of what it looks like... when you have a chance, try to poast a pic of your bustle. ill try to poast a pic of mine, i have the pic on film but i havent goten it developed. here is a pic i got off of Gathering of Nations.

http://209.61.156.185/images/wallpaper/menNORtrad.jpg

it has some grate looking bustles on it. there is a doubble row bustle on there.

looking forward to seeing a pic of your bustle,
Eutrinka

storm · 02-28-2004, 07:22 PM

Good info. Some clarification.
We are told The original crow, called "gaxe miga" did not have a bustle with it. There are 6 or seven in museums including the one Lewis and Clark got in 1805 or so. Thats' way back. Some are in the war bundles. They were a crow or raven body, head facing backwards. Wings went up when tied on. There were quill ornament in the spike of the wings. The tail hung down and had quill work on the centers. These were actually worn in to battle and by the Akedda (police) By 1850 the bustle was developed and La Fleshe has photos of those on Omahas. The crow and wolf tail was on either side. there were different reguirements to wear the wolf tail so they were not always there. It was as str8tdancer49 says. In the Hethushka only two crow' were worn. one with dark feathers and one with black tips. All other dancers had other parts depending on the office, including wolf skin robes, jaguar or panther robes and otters, depending on your station and office. Members had seats based on thier office and clan.

WhoMe · 03-03-2004, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by storm
Good info. Some clarification.
We are told The original crow, called "gaxe miga" did not have a bustle with it. There are 6 or seven in museums including the one Lewis and Clark got in 1805 or so. Thats' way back. Some are in the war bundles. They were a crow or raven body, head facing backwards. Wings went up when tied on. There were quill ornament in the spike of the wings. The tail hung down and had quill work on the centers. These were actually worn in to battle and by the Akedda (police) By 1850 the bustle was developed and La Fleshe has photos of those on Omahas. The crow and wolf tail was on either side. there were different reguirements to wear the wolf tail so they were not always there. It was as str8tdancer49 says. In the Hethushka only two crow' were worn. one with dark feathers and one with black tips. All other dancers had other parts depending on the office, including wolf skin robes, jaguar or panther robes and otters, depending on your station and office. Members had seats based on thier office and clan.

Any idea which museums have the 6 or seven "gaxe miga?" I sure would like to take a look. Also is the crow bustle from Lewis and Clark available for viewing?

storm · 03-03-2004, 11:48 AM

The three crows from the Lewis and Clark expedition are on the galleries at the Peabody museum of Ethnology. Also the new book detailing the collection has a chapter on them with good close ups. Other than the Peadody, and at least one in private collections. I can get the exact info tonight when I get home. The two in war bundles (I have seen one of them) were collected by M. R. Harrington in OK. and were Sac and Fox. There are also a few quilled belts, and 1890 bustles out there.
www.peabody.harvard.edu/Lewis_and_Clark/
The rest of the site has a searchable digital database of material in the Peabody collection.

storm · 03-06-2004, 02:27 PM

locations of known crows are:
3 from Lewis and Clark at the Peabody.
1 at the Heye foundation collected by Harrington(Sac and Fox)
1 at Milwaukee Public collected by Alanson Skinner. (also sac and fox)
1 at the filed Museum chicago collected By Paul Radin (it is winnebago)
2 at the Ethnological Museum in Berlin (one possibly Dakota) the other Oto collected by Duke Paul of Wurttemberg.
There are a couple others still with the war bundles held by the keepers.
This does not include quilled belts, White wolf robes, or swan ornaments that would have been associated with the belts.
That is a total of 8 published and and 2 unpublished "gaxe miga"

12-23-2003, 12:12 AM	#1 (permalink)
eutrinka Pow Wow Visitor Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 22	let's talk bustles!!! Ok if you have seen the thread "let's talk roaches" I want to create a similar thread about bustles! What region did the bustle originate from? What tribe(s) originally wore the bustle? Who was allowed to wear a bustle? What are different materials are bustles made of? Ok if you can post pictures of your bustle or a bustle you relay like. And discuss how you made your bustle. I hope this turns out to be a good thread! Eutrinka

01-12-2004, 11:41 AM	#6 (permalink)
Tom Iron Eagle Teen Dancer Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Florida Posts: 370	Great Post Excellent Post there WhoMe! Fantastic and accurate information and very well said.

01-14-2004, 05:16 PM	#7 (permalink)
Strong Eagle Northern Tradition Dancer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Oregon Posts: 7	Let me know if this is a good idea well any way, my name is Evan, n im from oregon and am 14 years old.I'm from the Kiowa/Comanche/Lakota/Cherokee nations but i also have adopted Makah. Last sept. (2003) i was bull riding n got bucked off and broke my neck.i dislocated c1 c2, shattered the disc tween c3 c4, n broke c4 c5 but i didnt get any damage to my spinal cord, just some swelling around it but i can walk almost normal again. but i cant ride bulls any more so im goin to start dancing in mens northern trad. one of my uncles is making me a double row bustle, he said cuz its my first 1, he's going to make it out of all goose or goose and hawk.if he is going to make the outter row w/ goose no matter what and im going to have him put white fluffs on the end w/ horse hair off the fluffs. then if we use goose 4 the center row then im going to have him put white buckskin circles on the end, but if we use hawk we're going to leave the ends plane. then 4 the center of the bustle im going to have him bead a medicine wheel then bead 4 eagle feathers off of the wheel, then light blue in the open parts of the wheel and around the wheel/feathers. then im going to have another uncle make me a 12" nat. color roach w. 2 spreaders that r beaded the light blue then the center of the roach to the end my grandmother is going to bead it light blue w/ a creators eyes and beaded eagle feathers down the center. then a blue ribbon shirt, then im going to carry a eagle fan in the left hand and a large medicne wheel my grandmother made me in the right hand. but do u know any web sites i can go to that show good pics of men northern trad. ragaila? specially the bustle i could use 4 a model. thanks alot, bye Strong Eagle Evan Ferns

01-15-2004, 01:21 PM	#8 (permalink)
Strong Eagle Northern Tradition Dancer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Oregon Posts: 7	another post i already got my ideas started i just wanted to see sum pics of others. and i've looked already in the powwows gallierys and they r good. i drew up a pic design of what i want in the middle of my bustle, so go to www.Indiancenter.net or .org or .com, i 4get which one, but its the site of a center i belong to, the Southern Oregon Indian Center or SOIC, pernounced in abb. SO-ICk....but u navagate through the site, u should see the centers costom design. im going to use that cept the circle the sourounds soic im going to devide it up in the 4 colors of the four directions red,white,red, and yellow. then the soic letters im going to bead each letter 4 each of the colors,S will be red, O will be black,I will be yellow, and C will be White, then in the open areas of the inside of the circle w/ be light blue (the whole center beaded) then im going to use cananadian goose feathers 4 the outter row of the big row w/ white fluffs w/ dark horse hair off the fluffs then the innter row will be real hawk. then all the dowls w/ be a blue yarn. then my spreads will be beaded in a light blue like the bustle center then down the middle of the roach will be a big beaded eagle feather then 4 my two roach spreaders im going to use hawk. then 4 my fan will be hawk that one of my uncles is gifting me (along w/ the bustle and roach hawk feathers) then a big (1 1/2 ft from side to side medince wheel w/ a hawk feather in the middle. then a eagle feather im going to tie on to it that i was gifted. so it will be a cool ragailia! let me know what u think..thanks Strong Eagle Evan

02-28-2004, 06:55 PM	#9 (permalink)
eutrinka Pow Wow Visitor Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 22	sounds grate well your bustle idea sounds grate. the details you gave, gave me an idea of what it looks like... when you have a chance, try to poast a pic of your bustle. ill try to poast a pic of mine, i have the pic on film but i havent goten it developed. here is a pic i got off of Gathering of Nations. http://209.61.156.185/images/wallpaper/menNORtrad.jpg it has some grate looking bustles on it. there is a doubble row bustle on there. looking forward to seeing a pic of your bustle, Eutrinka

12-23-2003, 10:46 AM	#2 (permalink)
WhoMe PauWau Coordinator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Land of 370 Broken Treaties Posts: 5,433	_____ Okay, I guess I will go first. _____ The term bustle is an English word used to describe the bunched material on the back of a formal long dress. Each tribe that had the bustle called the bustle by its tribal name. The people of the great plains were responsible for it's diffusion. The Umonhon (Omaha) tribe were popularly known to have one of the earliest forms of bustles for their grass dance society. The Gros Ventre had the earliest form of round eagle tail bustle. Grass dance leaders wore a "Crow Bustle" to signify their title. Dancers who did not have this right, tucked tufts of grass in their belts and moccasins - Hence, the "Grass Dance." The earliest Crow Bustles were made of bird of prey feathers. This included eagle, hawk, falcon and even owl feathers. The actual body of a raven/crow was tied next to the bustle. As the bustle spread to other northern tribes they adapted different structural differences. In the 1700's the pheasant was introduced to the plains from Europe. It too was used to make early bustles. These unique feathers were prized because of their thinness and banding. ___ Next . . .

12-23-2003, 07:23 PM	#3 (permalink)
Kakeeya PowWows.com Addicts Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: By a mountain on the Rez Posts: 2,522	Show off! :Chatter :D Just kidding!!

12-23-2003, 07:55 PM	#4 (permalink)
Steve StopsOnTime Who's grandson. Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 110	Why don't southern straight dancers wear bustles??

02-28-2004, 07:22 PM	#10 (permalink)
storm Teen Dancer Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 424	Good info. Some clarification. We are told The original crow, called "gaxe miga" did not have a bustle with it. There are 6 or seven in museums including the one Lewis and Clark got in 1805 or so. Thats' way back. Some are in the war bundles. They were a crow or raven body, head facing backwards. Wings went up when tied on. There were quill ornament in the spike of the wings. The tail hung down and had quill work on the centers. These were actually worn in to battle and by the Akedda (police) By 1850 the bustle was developed and La Fleshe has photos of those on Omahas. The crow and wolf tail was on either side. there were different reguirements to wear the wolf tail so they were not always there. It was as str8tdancer49 says. In the Hethushka only two crow' were worn. one with dark feathers and one with black tips. All other dancers had other parts depending on the office, including wolf skin robes, jaguar or panther robes and otters, depending on your station and office. Members had seats based on thier office and clan. __________________ My bark is worse than my bite

03-03-2004, 11:48 AM	#12 (permalink)
storm Teen Dancer Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 424	The three crows from the Lewis and Clark expedition are on the galleries at the Peabody museum of Ethnology. Also the new book detailing the collection has a chapter on them with good close ups. Other than the Peadody, and at least one in private collections. I can get the exact info tonight when I get home. The two in war bundles (I have seen one of them) were collected by M. R. Harrington in OK. and were Sac and Fox. There are also a few quilled belts, and 1890 bustles out there. www.peabody.harvard.edu/Lewis_and_Clark/ The rest of the site has a searchable digital database of material in the Peabody collection. __________________ My bark is worse than my bite Last edited by storm; 03-03-2004 at 01:32 PM.

03-06-2004, 02:27 PM	#13 (permalink)
storm Teen Dancer Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 424	locations of known crows are: 3 from Lewis and Clark at the Peabody. 1 at the Heye foundation collected by Harrington(Sac and Fox) 1 at Milwaukee Public collected by Alanson Skinner. (also sac and fox) 1 at the filed Museum chicago collected By Paul Radin (it is winnebago) 2 at the Ethnological Museum in Berlin (one possibly Dakota) the other Oto collected by Duke Paul of Wurttemberg. There are a couple others still with the war bundles held by the keepers. This does not include quilled belts, White wolf robes, or swan ornaments that would have been associated with the belts. That is a total of 8 published and and 2 unpublished "gaxe miga" __________________ My bark is worse than my bite Last edited by storm; 03-06-2004 at 02:30 PM.

04-15-2004, 02:59 AM	#14 (permalink)
redthunder Powwow King Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 484