yellowthunders mama

I see a lot of posts questioning whether women should or shouldn’t sing and drum and I always check them out because I am a female singer. I sing with my family drum. My husband is our drum keeper. Since I taught the members of our drum the songs, my husband asked me to sing lead. I had to sing the lead to teach them and everyone was like, “you can kick out a good lead!” I really didn’t want to do it because I knew it would cause some raised eyebrows. But I did it anyway because the drum keeper asked me to and it is up to him. We were always taught that the whole family belongs around the drum, singing and drumming together. We were taught that the family that sings and drums together is a strong, united family. Our son has been singing and drumming since he was 9 months old, before he could even walk. We strive to give him what we didn’t have – a constant unbroken, daily connection to our traditions. We decided to start the drum because we love to sing and we were guided to do so. No elder has ever told us that what we are doing is wrong. In fact, we have been told the opposite, to keep it up! One thing to remember is that different families within the same tribe have different traditions and do things differently as well as different tribes doing things differently and this is something we need to learn to be ok with.
So, all I am asking for is a dialog and discussion about the family drum and mixed drums to see if there are others out there who have had similar teachings on the family drum. I was taught that we are here to learn how to be good relatives and I think accepting the different ways people do things is part of that.

WocusWoman

I hear you on this issue. Where I come from, your drum would be accepted. Women have always been the stronger sex, were leaders, and also sit on drums. I also sing and drum at times, and have had to become accepted in this role, as I did not want to step on any toes. I'm most often asked to sing, because of my very low voice, and knowing all the songs as well. I always feel as if I must bite my tongue on this website, because many of the people and their tribes DO NOT share in my people's ways and I respect that. We usually get issue with one or two people, that question why our drum would have women at it, but they always need to be reminded that Alaska has many, many people from different areas of the U.S and that we are not all going to come from the exact same traditions, and we need to have respect for each other. It's a common problem all over. Everyone thinks their way is the ONLY and CORRECT way.

FluteMaker

to draw a paralell, as a flute maker theres a simmilar issue with flutes. there are tribal traditions that say a woman should never see a flute let alone play one. there are way old traditions, supposedly, that call for a woman to be put to death for playing flutes. look around and see how many woman flute players there are at the nammys this year.
point is 'girls rock too' period. every time i hear about traditions regarding woman and flutes or women and drums its usually from some born again traditionalist who speaks in a thomas builds the fire voice with euphamisms from the book of jobe. nobody has ever been able to tell me where these traditions came from or how they came about. with the exception of one guy, who said his people just feel that with the voices they were born with women dont need to play flute.
usually im left gagging on the christian overtone of phallic natures and such.
not to sound anti tradition, but the reason traditions evolve is that they have to. every so often moral and social climates change to the point where a given tradition doesnt work or fit anymore. if traditions dont change and evolve too they will die. traditions are living breathing things that change and develope as the people who follow them do.
i fully support traditions, but i always try to remember that the old ways were new once too.

drum away

DiAnn

Wow I am so glad someone has finally hit the nail on the head about women drumming. I have been coming here eveyday for the last three years reading the posts. This is the first time I have ever felt the need to respond.

Before my husband passed away, we kept a drum together. His Grandfather gave it to us. He wanted to hear the songs sang again and to hear the voice of the drum. Being Lakota he knew that there would be some flack about my sitting at the drum, but he said to ignore the ignorence and just do it. I was the one who knew the songs and taught most of them to my husband.

I was honored and proud to be able to sing and drum for this Grandfather. He had been gone from the Pine Ridge for many years. When he passed, I knew he was happy with his choice of gifting us with the drum.

My husband & I also allowed the children to sit and drum with us. What an amazing site to see those eyes light up and the smiles break out when they "Got It". But here too we incurred the wrath of several, and I quote, Born Again Traditionalst. I never understood how they expected the children to learn if they couldnt get a drum stick in their hands.

So I say DRUM SING DANCE AND PRAY. CREATOR knows our hearts and our minds.

Is not the voice of the Drum the HEARTBEAT OF THE MOTHER???

My husband passed in April of this year and after my year of mourning I can assure you I mean to pick up that drum stick with a vengence.

DiAnn

mebdrum1

wow, a friend emailed me over the weekend and said "hey, there's a thread going you might want to check out".

Usually when I get those kinda emails I say to myself "OH geez, what now?"

LOL...why do I say that? Because most of the time they are telling me about another thread bashing women at the drum.

Wow....here I go again...I seem to be sticking my neck out more and more these days! (hey, is there a smili-con for sticking your neck out?)

As the lead singer of an all women's group, believe me I know what it's like to have folks say "hit-ain't raht" ('scuz the hillbilly accent). Women don't come to the drum to be controvercial (sp?) or to start a fight, or to extend the women's rights movement or to challenge "male authority"...

they come to the drum becuase there is something calling them to the drum...it's like you have no other choice. You have to sing and bring up the heartbeat for the people. I have some women that literally take YEARS to come to the drum...they resist the call because they were taught...

"Hit-ain't raht"

and many of them get sick...in one form or another... physically, emotionally or what have you. Now I can't say they get sick because some wo-wo cosmic medicine from denial of spirit led callings...I won't say that. Or the age old justification of "the rough path is put in front of you to show you that you are doing what you are supposed to be doing" That can be taken either way, depending on who is looking at it and what side of the drum that sit at.

I do know that they (women who resist the call) usually come to the drum during the sickness, or after the sickness during recovery. It's like a wake-up call to them.

For MOST women it really is a personal sacrifice because it often requires giving up old teachings, and/or putting up with attacks. Who really want's to do that? Most of the women that come to our drum, don't do it with twinkling lights in their eyes, eager to advance into "star-dom" and make fortunes (yeah, right STARS? Fortunes? LOL). They answer to a bigger calling that requires them to put aside the SELF...and it often (not always) leads to a personal healing, and most definitely gives them a support group of women (and their FAMILIES) that they may not have had otherwise.

Obviously I'm not saying it is this way for all women at the drum. For those who are fortunate enough to come from a culture that is accepting of women at the drum, then it's somewhat easier because of the support of their culture....however, that doesn't eliminate the lack of support outside.

and I agree w/Flutemaker and DiAnn about the "Born again Traditionalists" (BATs). I was taught to be open-minded and accepting of other people's ways and DON'T try to force my ways onto others. We (our drum) never goes where we are not invited or accepted...though typically there are a few die-hard BATs who turn their nose to the sky, their backs to the drum and start spouting "hit-ain't raht" to anybody (usually newbies or non-native public) who will listen. But you know what, we aren't there for THEM, we are there for those who NEED us. In fact we wouldn't be there at all if the committee hadn't called for us. The committee wouldnt' have called for us if they weren't at least reasonabley sure that having a female drum at their event was OK for their area or people.

WHEW! wait....getting off my which I seem to be climbing upon more often!

As for mixed drums and family drums...the same applies, the women are not always there because it's OK with the world. It's obviously ok withe the drum/drum keeper, or she wouldn't be there. I've heard stories that during the many many years when we couldn't practice our spirituality...and were forced to learn a non-native language, and forced to go to boarding schools, and taken away from our families....that it was the women who kept the knowledge of the songs, ceremonies and traditions...and when it was finally OK to be native again...they were the ones that taught those things back to the people. In a culture that reliese on oral tradition and teaching by example....I wonder if those women taught the drum from the sidelines...or AT the drum.

I can't imagine trying to teach someone a sidestep beat, or round dance beat...or any other beat more complicated than the straight beat...to anyone from the sidelines.

just my 's worth (inflation has brought the price up from 2 cents).

__________________

You've heard from MEBDrum1....
but you can call me Mel...

yellowthunders mama

It is good to know that there are other women out there singing and drumming and teaching and keeping traditions alive. Although I have run into some troubles out there, my experience has always been so different from a lot of the woman-bashing that I have read on the threads that I just wanted to hear from others out there who have similar experiences. I also can’t help but notice how some of the people who feel so strongly about women being on the drum sound. They sound like people of privilege who believe that drumming and singing is their exclusive birthright. And they remind me of the close-minded, fundamentalist Christian types who have all these beliefs about what other people believe and they believe that other people must believe what they believe or they are going to hell. You know what I am talking about Wocus Woman.
The last powwow where we sang, I was the only female singer and the other drums that were there were very nice and the powwow committee was very kind. A woman dancer saw me sit down and start singing and she came up to me later and said, “I used to sing and drum too but I had to stop because people got so upset. When I saw you sit down I looked up in the sky and didn’t see any lightning strike.”
I am lucky to have a husband who supports me like yours did DiAnn. I am sorry to hear of his passing but happy that you have fond memories of him and your children are left with good and positive teachings.
It is important to answer the call as you point out mebdrum1 or you will get spanked. Better to deal with the flack of a few community members than getting spanked by the spirit. And you are right: you come to the drum because you have no choice. Creator keeps putting it in front of you or making you sick until you give in.
Thank you FluteMaker for the parallels and teachings you bring to this thread. All our tribes have stories of people being given gifts outside of their prescribed role and the courage it takes to answer that call is tremendous. It takes generations of strength to overcome the obstacles.
Manny Blessings to you all!

Coyot_In_The_House

This subject seems to flop like a fish.....There are so many "opinions" on this topic.....My ear formulates my opinion....Ironwood, Little Boy, Red Leaf Takoja, Native Thunder, Cathedral Lakes, Snake River.....etc...produce/produced some awesome music....Now all of those groups are not entirely woman groups, but there was, or is a woman's influence...(I mean a woman sitting down and striking the drum). Now as for some of the other groups i've heard....Well....Their sound is less appealing to put it kindly.....I'm being straight up....Folks at times don't want to say it, but its true.....Also its not about "Woman's Lib" and on and on. All kinds of situations contribute to the formulation (if you will) of Woman groups.....I for one think if it's done in a respectful manner its positive..(oh the directions we can go with this....)..I don't want to elaborate on that....It's cut and dry...Again i'm going to put my head on the proverbial chopping block....I'd like to see or hear Woman groups who's sound is there....Most singers know what i'm talking about.....

This is a reply I posted in the Women's Drum group Thread.....

I certainly mean no offense, I'm just being honest....

yellowthunders mama

Coyot_In_The_House: no offense taken. You still have some living to do and maybe you will get to that powwow where you hear the women singing that move you and have that sound you look for. It takes years of encouragement to develop that sound and with a whole lot of controversy swirling around, many women do not get to that point – all the roadblocks etc… But I have faith that you will hear it some day and it will move you.

swbreez

I suppose it depends on your tribal traditions. Omaha women are not to hold a drum stick, it's a man's instrument(Errr, not thinking right). I always abided by that rule. Omaha women are supposed to sing from where they are and are not to go directly behind or by the singers. I'm not much into singing but my mom is a good singer and she goes to the drum. I do rememer that one time a lady was at the drum and on her menstral (sp?) I believe, and the drum caved in. So, I don't know if this has anything to do with that but all tribes are different. My kids' dad and the other Cree singers wouldn't let their wives, girlfriends, female kids sit around the drum or bother the drumsticks for the same reasons as the Omaha.

yellowthunders mama

Agreed. It does depend on your tribal as well as your family traditions. I too have heard many stories about a “woman on her moon” getting close to a drum and all kinds of bad things happening. I was at a powwow once where a “woman on her moon” was blamed for the men sounding horrible. I personally thought it was because they hadn’t practiced in 6 months but what do I know. I also know for a fact that the particular woman they blamed it on could not have possibly been “on her moon” because she had has a hysterectomy a year prior and I had helped her through the recovery process.

SuzzeQ4

I lead a Woman's drum group (hand drum, not the big drum). I am close friends with the lead from the local big drum. He & I get sit & teach each other songs, I can sing behind is drum when i want (but I don't sit at it). My husbands elder (Mohawk, like my husband) has a family drum (water drums), Himself, his boys, daughter & wife. But the daughter & wife don't drum, but they sit with the men of thier family. Sometimes he sings with the Women in our drum group when we meet up at socials & powwows. I have seen many Mohawk water drum groups of either Men or Women. I first learned to sing in my community with a small group of Women, we went every week into the Prison For Women (P4W), before it closed, & learned from the sisterhood inside. We had hand drums but the sisterhood had a bigdrum. If they didn't sit at that big drum & sing, who would, they don't have men in a Woman's prision.
I don't get a Woman's big drum, but I do get a family big drum. I think weather a family drums, big drum, hand drum or water drum, that it only makes sense to all be in it together, keep that family strong. Afterall the Mother's are the teachers. And lets face it, it is often us Women saying we need this, & then go out & do it. Our cultures need us to stand up, take hold & show our children the way, if we are ever going to have the communities we want. So yes sometimes a Mom will teach her boys to sing Or a Dad will teach his daughter to dance, because sometimes there is no one else near by to do so.
Suzze

FluteMaker

ive always been a born skeptic, a firm believer that when a person holds their hand out and smiles isnt always a good thing. ive heard a bunch of stories about womanly magic messing with other people and i almost always smell a need to place blame in the stories.
ive heard of dancers going down in the circle and it must have been a womans fault, someone dancing or drumming durring their 'moon'. never mind that its 98 degrees outside and the dancer hadnt eaten much more than poptarts and hadnt had nearly enough water to stave off dehydration, there must have been a menstrating woman around.
i cant say that womanly magic isnt hightened durring that particular scenario,but it some times seems an easy scapegoat any time any thing goes wrong.

Wojapi4Me