Drum money for the clueless

**billyjoejimbob** · 09-05-2006, 11:11 PM

I couldnt think of a good title, but i figured that one would get you interested.

What do you think about drums who show up for contest or split money when they arent really that great?

Not that I am any better, but when 40 drums show up to a powwow and some of them are repeatedly yelled at by the MCs for not singing correctly,why?

I heard 3 drums stopped at this summer, 2 at one powwow. I was taught that if you are stopped because you are singing wrong, it was a big disgrace and you should pick up and not sing.

I understand that people need money and will do anything to get it, but where does pride fit in here?

At one powwow over 40 drums showed up, once the 5 singer minimum and no drum hopping was annouced, about 10 drums dropped out.

And what about drums who also have dancers competing?

ntownn8ive · 09-06-2006, 09:57 PM

I've been singing for a long time now, over 18 years, and I'm not the best. But, the crew I sing with aren't shabby or anything I think. We don't compete and when I do, it is with my friends from another drum group.

There are those few drum groups that don't really know many songs or what not and just set up and always get in there for the pay. And when they sing, they basically disgrace themselves and disrespect the dancers they are singing for.

I know of some groups up north that started off when they were little guys but they weren't allowed to sing until they got older and learned some discipline and appropriate use of songs. Thass pretty tough, but then again they have been taught to respect the dancers and people or tribes they are singing for.

Then when it comes to competition singing and dancing, you really have to make a choice whether or not you are a dancer or a singer. In smaller drum contests, the committee has given some allowances for drum groups that might have to sing for a dance category that one of there singers is in. In larger contests, that just don't fly well. Therein you have to make a decision: to stay true to your group and participate in the drum contest, or to stay suited up and do your thang on the dance floor.

**billyjoejimbob** · 09-07-2006, 03:58 PM

Many of the drums at that big powwow sang popular and old songs, songs "I" knew! Only the known drums sang their own songs.

I went to Schemitzun back int he early 90's (the 60 drum days) when Black Lodge won like 3 drum contests, they also had dancers who won. I thinnk they took home over $50,000 that dance. I added it up back then but have forgotten. It was nuts.

The only gripe with that is that they MAYBE sang 3 songs per day!?

It is nice for spectators to hear many different drums but it sucks when you are a drum and only sing 2 or 3 songs per day and have to sit there all day doing nothing.

I have been to powwows where there was 6 drums and we sang maybe 8 songs, and i have been to powwows (memorial day) where there were 3 drums and we sang over 35 songs!

When I win the lottery I am gonna have a powwow and invite only the drums I like.

[]FlyByNyte[] · 09-19-2006, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billyjoejimbob

When I win the lottery I am gonna have a powwow and invite only the drums I like.

ME TOO

**WocusWoman** · 09-19-2006, 08:12 PM

I see nothing wrong with being able to dance and being a drummer/singer. As long as one doesn't interfere with the other, what's the issue. Do I sense some jealousy when you speak of the Blacklodge Drum? They were at my hometown powwow back in late August; I did not have a problem with their mother Louise winning a prize in my grand-mother's golden age special. I was not thinking she should win or not win because she's a Scabbyrobe. I and my family did not pick winners because they were connected to any particular family or drum. If a drum has that much success, then good for them. I wish I had more time and money to travel like that, but I don't, so I just stay generally around home, try and enjoy the local drums even though they are SO-So and remember that for the most part they try there best. Like I've stated before, when money enters the issue, you will alway get the good, the bad, and the down right "hard on the ear" drums.

ntownn8ive · 09-19-2006, 09:56 PM

I am not quite sure that BJJB was talking about dancers winning because they are affiliated with a popular drum group. At least not from how I interpreted it. But when dancers are singing with a drum in the drum contest.

And from my experience with smaller drum contests, there were allowances given. In larger drum contests, assuming the drum would be judged at that particular time, if a drum had to sing for a dance category that one of their dancers was in, they would be docked points or disqualified if not all their registered singers were present at the drum during the contest song. As well, if the dancer did not participate in their competition category, they too would be losing out, thus the decision to be made about being a dancer and singer.

**WocusWoman** · 09-19-2006, 10:46 PM

OK, gotcha. If that was the intention of BJJB, then I comprehend better. No big thing, I still think all these big competitions and money influence people the wrong way. I can see were every little drum that ever just thought of throwing together a drum at the very last minute might come out of the wood-work, because they were guaranteed a little money. On the other hand there are plenty of powwows that use invited only drums, and there is a guarantee of quality. WW

**billyjoejimbob** · 09-20-2006, 01:40 AM

i have no problem with singing AND dancing or Black Lodge, I just brought up the name as an example of how you can win a NATIONAL POWWOW DRUM CHAMPIONSHIP at these huge powwows when you only sang 3 songs.

and also that when it is a competition powwow and other peoples livelihoods are depending on you, you should know how to sing and what to sing.

yes, the money definitely has something to do with it.

im waiting for the powwow where the crappy drum sue's the committee for not letting them sing. it has happened at one of those wacko PA powwows I heard, so it cant be far behind at the real ones.

107 · 09-23-2006, 06:04 PM

**WocusWoman** · 09-23-2006, 08:37 PM

[quote=billyjoejimbob]i have no problem with singing AND dancing or Black Lodge, I just brought up the name as an example of how you can win a NATIONAL POWWOW DRUM CHAMPIONSHIP at these huge powwows when you only sang 3 songs.

[quote]

On the other hand; they were brought to Anchorage about 3-4 summers ago, by a Native Doctor's conference and seems like both Blacklodge and Scissortail didn't get much of a break drumming at all. The drum I sing with, only was asked to sing once or twice during the whole event, so they were disappointed of course.

**billyjoejimbob** · 09-24-2006, 03:10 AM

gotta get their moneys worth i guess.

there are many good drums out on the highway that deserve to be hosts at powwows. But when A drum wants 10k or more and brings 25 people and wants rooms and a ride and everything else, the committee is gonna ride them hard and make sure they work for it. shoot, i would.

not saying black lodge brings 25 people, but the few times i saw them at a powwow they had a bus load.

committees need to start promoting the lesser know drums that are as good. but maybe they dont want to be known, who knows. Maybe they are keeping it traditional.

**WocusWoman** · 09-24-2006, 03:29 AM

Maybe; there is a very good drum from back home, Steiger Butte. They are so good; people cannot believe they have not recorded. They told me they love and prefer the more traditional powwows, they are a very spiritual family too.

107 · 09-25-2006, 12:39 AM

That's what a powwow is!! Isn't that a powwow?

Ok to make my point not every group is going to be 1st at a powwow so of course your going to have groups that fall down the ranking.

Now with 50 drums I donot know because like most of you should know it hasnot happened since the 90s

Coyot_In_The_House · 09-25-2006, 02:18 AM

@ times I sit and utterly prepare a jaw dropper for Mr. Billy Joe.....Although I hear where he is coming from on this particular thread. I would have to say it annoys me (and i'm quite sure other singers) when a relatively young inexperienced crew hops into the jumbler to score some day money and they sound Rugged. I've seen this from time to time and unfortunately heard it as well. I was raised with the notion that when you enter the dance arbor and set up a drum, you are experienced and prepared to sing. Learning is constantly an experience, but practice should take place @ home...Singers should always be encouraged

09-05-2006, 11:11 PM	#1 (permalink)
billyjoejimbob Fat Singer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: white guy land Posts: 1,526	Drum money for the clueless I couldnt think of a good title, but i figured that one would get you interested. What do you think about drums who show up for contest or split money when they arent really that great? Not that I am any better, but when 40 drums show up to a powwow and some of them are repeatedly yelled at by the MCs for not singing correctly,why? I heard 3 drums stopped at this summer, 2 at one powwow. I was taught that if you are stopped because you are singing wrong, it was a big disgrace and you should pick up and not sing. I understand that people need money and will do anything to get it, but where does pride fit in here? At one powwow over 40 drums showed up, once the 5 singer minimum and no drum hopping was annouced, about 10 drums dropped out. And what about drums who also have dancers competing? __________________ There are 2 types of people in the world... Really stupid people who think they are smart and Really smart people who think they are smart.

09-06-2006, 09:57 PM	#2 (permalink)
ntownn8ive As you can see... Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: We get a lot of sun in Ntown! Posts: 5,786 Blog Entries: 1	I've been singing for a long time now, over 18 years, and I'm not the best. But, the crew I sing with aren't shabby or anything I think. We don't compete and when I do, it is with my friends from another drum group. There are those few drum groups that don't really know many songs or what not and just set up and always get in there for the pay. And when they sing, they basically disgrace themselves and disrespect the dancers they are singing for. I know of some groups up north that started off when they were little guys but they weren't allowed to sing until they got older and learned some discipline and appropriate use of songs. Thass pretty tough, but then again they have been taught to respect the dancers and people or tribes they are singing for. Then when it comes to competition singing and dancing, you really have to make a choice whether or not you are a dancer or a singer. In smaller drum contests, the committee has given some allowances for drum groups that might have to sing for a dance category that one of there singers is in. In larger contests, that just don't fly well. Therein you have to make a decision: to stay true to your group and participate in the drum contest, or to stay suited up and do your thang on the dance floor. __________________

09-07-2006, 03:58 PM	#3 (permalink)
billyjoejimbob Fat Singer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: white guy land Posts: 1,526	Many of the drums at that big powwow sang popular and old songs, songs "I" knew! Only the known drums sang their own songs. I went to Schemitzun back int he early 90's (the 60 drum days) when Black Lodge won like 3 drum contests, they also had dancers who won. I thinnk they took home over $50,000 that dance. I added it up back then but have forgotten. It was nuts. The only gripe with that is that they MAYBE sang 3 songs per day!? It is nice for spectators to hear many different drums but it sucks when you are a drum and only sing 2 or 3 songs per day and have to sit there all day doing nothing. I have been to powwows where there was 6 drums and we sang maybe 8 songs, and i have been to powwows (memorial day) where there were 3 drums and we sang over 35 songs! When I win the lottery I am gonna have a powwow and invite only the drums I like. __________________ There are 2 types of people in the world... Really stupid people who think they are smart and Really smart people who think they are smart.

09-19-2006, 09:56 PM	#6 (permalink)
ntownn8ive As you can see... Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: We get a lot of sun in Ntown! Posts: 5,786 Blog Entries: 1	I am not quite sure that BJJB was talking about dancers winning because they are affiliated with a popular drum group. At least not from how I interpreted it. But when dancers are singing with a drum in the drum contest. And from my experience with smaller drum contests, there were allowances given. In larger drum contests, assuming the drum would be judged at that particular time, if a drum had to sing for a dance category that one of their dancers was in, they would be docked points or disqualified if not all their registered singers were present at the drum during the contest song. As well, if the dancer did not participate in their competition category, they too would be losing out, thus the decision to be made about being a dancer and singer. __________________

09-20-2006, 01:40 AM	#8 (permalink)
billyjoejimbob Fat Singer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: white guy land Posts: 1,526	i have no problem with singing AND dancing or Black Lodge, I just brought up the name as an example of how you can win a NATIONAL POWWOW DRUM CHAMPIONSHIP at these huge powwows when you only sang 3 songs. and also that when it is a competition powwow and other peoples livelihoods are depending on you, you should know how to sing and what to sing. yes, the money definitely has something to do with it. im waiting for the powwow where the crappy drum sue's the committee for not letting them sing. it has happened at one of those wacko PA powwows I heard, so it cant be far behind at the real ones. __________________ There are 2 types of people in the world... Really stupid people who think they are smart and Really smart people who think they are smart.

09-19-2006, 08:12 PM	#5 (permalink)
WocusWoman N8tiffUmatillaMAMA Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Interior Alaska Posts: 2,737	I see nothing wrong with being able to dance and being a drummer/singer. As long as one doesn't interfere with the other, what's the issue. Do I sense some jealousy when you speak of the Blacklodge Drum? They were at my hometown powwow back in late August; I did not have a problem with their mother Louise winning a prize in my grand-mother's golden age special. I was not thinking she should win or not win because she's a Scabbyrobe. I and my family did not pick winners because they were connected to any particular family or drum. If a drum has that much success, then good for them. I wish I had more time and money to travel like that, but I don't, so I just stay generally around home, try and enjoy the local drums even though they are SO-So and remember that for the most part they try there best. Like I've stated before, when money enters the issue, you will alway get the good, the bad, and the down right "hard on the ear" drums.

09-19-2006, 10:46 PM	#7 (permalink)
WocusWoman N8tiffUmatillaMAMA Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Interior Alaska Posts: 2,737	OK, gotcha. If that was the intention of BJJB, then I comprehend better. No big thing, I still think all these big competitions and money influence people the wrong way. I can see were every little drum that ever just thought of throwing together a drum at the very last minute might come out of the wood-work, because they were guaranteed a little money. On the other hand there are plenty of powwows that use invited only drums, and there is a guarantee of quality. WW

09-23-2006, 06:04 PM	#9 (permalink)
107 Customs Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 11	check

09-23-2006, 08:37 PM	#10 (permalink)
WocusWoman N8tiffUmatillaMAMA Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Interior Alaska Posts: 2,737	[quote=billyjoejimbob]i have no problem with singing AND dancing or Black Lodge, I just brought up the name as an example of how you can win a NATIONAL POWWOW DRUM CHAMPIONSHIP at these huge powwows when you only sang 3 songs. [quote] On the other hand; they were brought to Anchorage about 3-4 summers ago, by a Native Doctor's conference and seems like both Blacklodge and Scissortail didn't get much of a break drumming at all. The drum I sing with, only was asked to sing once or twice during the whole event, so they were disappointed of course.

09-24-2006, 03:10 AM	#11 (permalink)
billyjoejimbob Fat Singer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: white guy land Posts: 1,526	gotta get their moneys worth i guess. there are many good drums out on the highway that deserve to be hosts at powwows. But when A drum wants 10k or more and brings 25 people and wants rooms and a ride and everything else, the committee is gonna ride them hard and make sure they work for it. shoot, i would. not saying black lodge brings 25 people, but the few times i saw them at a powwow they had a bus load. committees need to start promoting the lesser know drums that are as good. but maybe they dont want to be known, who knows. Maybe they are keeping it traditional. __________________ There are 2 types of people in the world... Really stupid people who think they are smart and Really smart people who think they are smart.

09-24-2006, 03:29 AM	#12 (permalink)
WocusWoman N8tiffUmatillaMAMA Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Interior Alaska Posts: 2,737	Maybe; there is a very good drum from back home, Steiger Butte. They are so good; people cannot believe they have not recorded. They told me they love and prefer the more traditional powwows, they are a very spiritual family too.

09-25-2006, 12:39 AM	#13 (permalink)
107 Customs Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 11	eska That's what a powwow is!! Isn't that a powwow? Ok to make my point not every group is going to be 1st at a powwow so of course your going to have groups that fall down the ranking. Now with 50 drums I donot know because like most of you should know it hasnot happened since the 90s __________________ WOODLANDS Last edited by 107; 09-25-2006 at 05:44 AM.