Pickup Drums / powwow admission

**billyjoejimbob** · 10-10-2005, 10:47 AM

Ok I know this is messed up subject by I am looking for some opinions from "REAL POWWOW PEOPLE"

A small group who runs 2 traditional powwows per year is having a little problem. They usually have a host and an invited drum but usually a pick up drum or two show up. As a drum they expect to be there without paying admission.

Here is the problem? Should they pay admission fees?

Keep in mind that this is a small powwow that doesnt have many spectators. Everyone else, including dancers pay admission because it is an "association" type group.

When my drum shows up as a pickup somewhere we have no problem paying admission fees, we dont care, we are there to sing and have some fun. We werent invited but they dont mind if we sing.

There are two problems, sometimes the people running this powwow forget that you need drums and should respect them, but on the other hand, some drums expect to be treated as royalty and think they can do whatever they want and show up uninvited with no questions asked.

My opinion was that if they could get more spectators and traders they wouldnt have to worry about it. The dancers wouldnt even have to pay.

I want to hear some opinions that I can forward to them(anonymously, unless you want to be named).

**Wojapi4Me** · 10-10-2005, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billyjoejimbob

Ok I know this is messed up subject by I am looking for some opinions from "REAL POWWOW PEOPLE"

A small group who runs 2 traditional powwows per year is having a little problem. They usually have a host and an invited drum but usually a pick up drum or two show up. As a drum they expect to be there without paying admission.

Here is the problem? Should they pay admission fees?

Keep in mind that this is a small powwow that doesnt have many spectators. Everyone else, including dancers pay admission because it is an "association" type group.

When my drum shows up as a pickup somewhere we have no problem paying admission fees, we dont care, we are there to sing and have some fun. We werent invited but they dont mind if we sing.

There are two problems, sometimes the people running this powwow forget that you need drums and should respect them, but on the other hand, some drums expect to be treated as royalty and think they can do whatever they want and show up uninvited with no questions asked.

My opinion was that if they could get more spectators and traders they wouldnt have to worry about it. The dancers wouldnt even have to pay.

I want to hear some opinions that I can forward to them(anonymously, unless you want to be named).

First off, this group you're talking about is not running a traditional pow wow at all if they're charging anyone a fee to get in. Traditional pow wows are free to everyone - drums, dancers, and spectators. They also feed everyone in attendance.

That cleared up - my opinion would be a resounding NO! They shouldn't have to pay anything. The committee should be happy that a drum has come to sing for their dance, and should do everything in their power to make them feel welcome (food, shelter, gas money if possible)...making them pay a gate fee isn't being very hospitable. I've actually never heard of a drum having to pay admission fees. I've heard of drums having to pay fees to enter contest (which I think is stupid as well, but that's another subject I guess). Drums should never have to pay to sing...unless they stink and sing on beat...then they should have to pay all the dancers for making us listen to them...just kidding...lol

**injunboy** · 10-10-2005, 11:57 AM

tradish powwows are the opposite from what you just described. theres no fees and pick up drums can make some extra cash over the weekend. in addition to being fed during supper break, all the dancers usually get paid. the pay varies from place to place.

**billyjoejimbob** · 10-10-2005, 04:27 PM

ADDENDUM

By tradish, I meant "Not Competition".

Im just going with what everyone is used to hearing.
Tradish or Comp? Tradish or Comp?

I agree (not cause Im a singer) that all drums should be free. But where do you draw the line if any?

Space restrictions?

What about drums that people know are REALLY bad or do things the wrong way? Are people wrong to judge? (be honest, im sure many of you have been to a small powwow that undesirables show up at?) (anyone from PA, MD, NJ, WV, VA, IN, OH?)

**Wojapi4Me** · 10-10-2005, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billyjoejimbob

ADDENDUM

By tradish, I meant "Not Competition".

Im just going with what everyone is used to hearing.
Tradish or Comp? Tradish or Comp?

I agree (not cause Im a singer) that all drums should be free. But where do you draw the line if any?

Space restrictions?

What about drums that people know are REALLY bad or do things the wrong way? Are people wrong to judge? (be honest, im sure many of you have been to a small powwow that undesirables show up at?) (anyone from PA, MD, NJ, WV, VA, IN, OH?)

If you have space issues, then the committee should put on the flyer that only invited drums are welcome. If not, then they should be accomodating and welcome any group that shows up. If there is a group that can't sing well, then that's up to the MC as to how many songs they get during a weekend. I know that drums get mad nowadays if they get skipped, but it used to be common practice.

As far as doing things the wrong way...who's way? That's a dangerous limb to get out on.

Undesirables? Does this mean yahoos who can't sing? Drunks? Druggies? AIMsters? Feds? Gangsters? Tribal Council members? What are you talking about here?

**billyjoejimbob** · 10-10-2005, 08:40 PM

Wrong way as in not using "basic" drum protocol. IE-No one there but the drum with no cover. Always late. Always sing the wrong songs.

Undesireables as in people who decided to be 'drummers' or 'chanters', people who sing english words about nature and god and mother earth. People who wear more animal parts than the animals in the zoo. etc.

Everyone has their own definition of undesireables. Im sure Im in there somewhere since I am a non-indian singer.

It is usually the same people over and over, they know about the powwow and never see a brochure.

Im just looking to find out what other people do in these situations. What did you do? What were the reactions? What were the reprocussions if any?"

ojibwecommodbod · 10-10-2005, 09:24 PM

"Everyone has their own definition of undesireables. Im sure Im in there somewhere since I am a non-indian singer. "

leave it to the indians to make the desicions. if the only indians you have access to is here pws.com?, then maybe you shouldn't be having this powwow? call the boyscouts?

Purple Reign · 10-11-2005, 12:37 AM

Singerdad, Injunboy and Ojibwecommodbod, you are wasting your time replying to this thread. This guy is talking about those WHITEMAN powwows that take place on the east coast. They are run by white people for white people. I don't give a sh-t what you do at your fake powwows and neither should any "real powwow person".

**rkbtmeyb** · 10-11-2005, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billyjoejimbob

Undesireables as in people who decided to be 'drummers' or 'chanters', people who sing english words about nature and god and mother earth. People who wear more animal parts than the animals in the zoo. etc.

Everyone has their own definition of undesireables. Im sure Im in there somewhere since I am a non-indian singer.

It is usually the same people over and over, they know about the powwow and never see a brochure.

Does anyone else see whats going on here? LOL

Nicotine25 · 10-12-2005, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Singerdad

First off, this group you're talking about is not running a traditional pow wow at all if they're charging anyone a fee to get in. Traditional pow wows are free to everyone - drums, dancers, and spectators. They also feed everyone in attendance.

That cleared up - my opinion would be a resounding NO! They shouldn't have to pay anything. The committee should be happy that a drum has come to sing for their dance, and should do everything in their power to make them feel welcome (food, shelter, gas money if possible)...making them pay a gate fee isn't being very hospitable. I've actually never heard of a drum having to pay admission fees. I've heard of drums having to pay fees to enter contest (which I think is stupid as well, but that's another subject I guess). Drums should never have to pay to sing...unless they stink and sing on beat...then they should have to pay all the dancers for making us listen to them...just kidding...lol

i agree with this guy!

**billyjoejimbob** · 10-12-2005, 05:52 PM

I aint running the powwow. If I was I wouldnt charge drums. I dont want to run a powwow becuase I know it takes more than I can give or know.

As you can see, i asked for opinions.

I got some, on the subject and on white people in general.

Thanks to the people who replied on the subject, KMA to those who didnt and twisted another thrread into a HATE WHITEY post.

In the area Im talking about, the WHITEMAN powwows are the closest thing to resembling a powwow that you can find. Unless you want to walk around half naked, sleep under a tarp on a bear hide, eat squirrel meat you cooked on a fire you started with a rock and stick while referring to each other by your NDN names. (the walking around half naked thing would be too bad but have you seen the powwow wannabees in the northeast?)

ojibwecommodbod · 10-12-2005, 07:53 PM

its you who doesn't get the point. find a new hobby. quit tryin to come on here like everyone is gunna support you. leave it alone man, you and your whole gang, play cowboys or something.

**billyjoejimbob** · 10-12-2005, 08:05 PM

The cowboys always won when I was growing up.

The_HULK · 10-13-2005, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purple Reign

....This guy is talking about those WHITEMAN powwows that take place on the east coast. They are run by white people for white people. I don't give a sh-t what you do at your fake powwows and neither should any "real powwow person".

This is the only post that should be up here.

Lets try not to encourage this behaviour. *lol*

Next thing you know they will be critiquing how our cermoines are being run.

I know some people are going to get mad, but the only people who really understand what it's like to be on this side of the fence are the real "NDN"'s.

AHO

10-10-2005, 10:47 AM	#1 (permalink)
billyjoejimbob Fat Singer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: white guy land Posts: 1,526	Pickup Drums / powwow admission Ok I know this is messed up subject by I am looking for some opinions from "REAL POWWOW PEOPLE" A small group who runs 2 traditional powwows per year is having a little problem. They usually have a host and an invited drum but usually a pick up drum or two show up. As a drum they expect to be there without paying admission. Here is the problem? Should they pay admission fees? Keep in mind that this is a small powwow that doesnt have many spectators. Everyone else, including dancers pay admission because it is an "association" type group. When my drum shows up as a pickup somewhere we have no problem paying admission fees, we dont care, we are there to sing and have some fun. We werent invited but they dont mind if we sing. There are two problems, sometimes the people running this powwow forget that you need drums and should respect them, but on the other hand, some drums expect to be treated as royalty and think they can do whatever they want and show up uninvited with no questions asked. My opinion was that if they could get more spectators and traders they wouldnt have to worry about it. The dancers wouldnt even have to pay. I want to hear some opinions that I can forward to them(anonymously, unless you want to be named).

10-10-2005, 11:57 AM	#3 (permalink)
injunboy Ganado 3A North Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: nizhoni arizoni Posts: 1,650	tradish powwows are the opposite from what you just described. theres no fees and pick up drums can make some extra cash over the weekend. in addition to being fed during supper break, all the dancers usually get paid. the pay varies from place to place. __________________ thanks dad for showing me the way, teaching me the language, and not leaving my mother...L *original XXL * jus like McSteamie

10-10-2005, 09:24 PM	#7 (permalink)
ojibwecommodbod Powwow Bouncer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: da ghetto but moving soon Posts: 45	you've answered your own question "Everyone has their own definition of undesireables. Im sure Im in there somewhere since I am a non-indian singer. " leave it to the indians to make the desicions. if the only indians you have access to is here pws.com?, then maybe you shouldn't be having this powwow? call the boyscouts?

10-12-2005, 07:53 PM	#12 (permalink)
ojibwecommodbod Powwow Bouncer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: da ghetto but moving soon Posts: 45	get the point its you who doesn't get the point. find a new hobby. quit tryin to come on here like everyone is gunna support you. leave it alone man, you and your whole gang, play cowboys or something.

10-10-2005, 04:27 PM	#4 (permalink)
billyjoejimbob Fat Singer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: white guy land Posts: 1,526	ADDENDUM By tradish, I meant "Not Competition". Im just going with what everyone is used to hearing. Tradish or Comp? Tradish or Comp? I agree (not cause Im a singer) that all drums should be free. But where do you draw the line if any? Space restrictions? What about drums that people know are REALLY bad or do things the wrong way? Are people wrong to judge? (be honest, im sure many of you have been to a small powwow that undesirables show up at?) (anyone from PA, MD, NJ, WV, VA, IN, OH?)

10-10-2005, 08:40 PM	#6 (permalink)
billyjoejimbob Fat Singer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: white guy land Posts: 1,526	Wrong way as in not using "basic" drum protocol. IE-No one there but the drum with no cover. Always late. Always sing the wrong songs. Undesireables as in people who decided to be 'drummers' or 'chanters', people who sing english words about nature and god and mother earth. People who wear more animal parts than the animals in the zoo. etc. Everyone has their own definition of undesireables. Im sure Im in there somewhere since I am a non-indian singer. It is usually the same people over and over, they know about the powwow and never see a brochure. Im just looking to find out what other people do in these situations. What did you do? What were the reactions? What were the reprocussions if any?"

10-11-2005, 12:37 AM	#8 (permalink)
Purple Reign Tiny Tot Dancer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 33	Singerdad, Injunboy and Ojibwecommodbod, you are wasting your time replying to this thread. This guy is talking about those WHITEMAN powwows that take place on the east coast. They are run by white people for white people. I don't give a sh-t what you do at your fake powwows and neither should any "real powwow person".

10-12-2005, 05:52 PM	#11 (permalink)
billyjoejimbob Fat Singer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: white guy land Posts: 1,526	I aint running the powwow. If I was I wouldnt charge drums. I dont want to run a powwow becuase I know it takes more than I can give or know. As you can see, i asked for opinions. I got some, on the subject and on white people in general. Thanks to the people who replied on the subject, KMA to those who didnt and twisted another thrread into a HATE WHITEY post. In the area Im talking about, the WHITEMAN powwows are the closest thing to resembling a powwow that you can find. Unless you want to walk around half naked, sleep under a tarp on a bear hide, eat squirrel meat you cooked on a fire you started with a rock and stick while referring to each other by your NDN names. (the walking around half naked thing would be too bad but have you seen the powwow wannabees in the northeast?)

10-12-2005, 08:05 PM	#13 (permalink)
billyjoejimbob Fat Singer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: white guy land Posts: 1,526	The cowboys always won when I was growing up.