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OneidaDreamer

I'm posting this because there is no discussion thread about Hip-Hop on here, as far as I've seen. When I say hip-hop, I don't mean Big Booty Rap songs and MTV and VH1 videos.

I mean Graphitti,B-Boyin,DJ's,MC's. Underground Hip-Hop has always been around, especially in larger cities like Brooklyn,Chicago,New York,LA etc... I have friends who have been DJ's since they were in their early teens and now they're my age and a bit older.

Rapping or MCing is just one aspect of Hip-Hop culture and we all know that. I'm not trying to dis any MC's out there, but that is only one of the four sacred aspects of Hip-Hop.

Without going on a long tangent about this, I think you have all gotten the point.

I would like this thread to center around any aspect of Native Hip-Hop Culture.

Here's a link for an old skool walk down memory lane: http://www.jayquan.com/default.htm

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Mato Winyan

Sure we can discuss it all ya want.........

Might be good to start with what the differences are between .... hip hop - rap. Might wanna talk about difference between mainstream and underground.

I know of several native groups. Warparty being one.

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"We see it as a desecration not only of a mountain but of our way of life. This is a genocidal issue to us. If they kill this mountain, they kill our way of life." ~Debra White Plume

OneidaDreamer

RAP MUSIC: Is commercial music created in studios without the good grace and creative energies of a DJ. These groups rap over a D.A.T or Digital Audio Track and a Drum Machine and Synthesizer.

The vast majority of MTV/VH1 groups are of this type. Furthermore the vast majority of airplay/radio play is of this type of music. These groups who shall be nameless; rhyme about booty dancin, and killing, pimping, being a thug, and making money and having big houses and shiny necklaces/bling and other materialistic things, just to name a few...

I'm in no way disrespecting these groups or the people who dig on that aspect of hip-hop culture in any way. I'm just trying to differentiate between the commercially friendly rap music aspect of hip-hop. I personally dig a handful of those groups myself...

Underground: Are groups of MC's and DJ's who have been playing clubs,block parties,basements,parks,Y's, Churches, houses and anywhere they can. They play major venues, it's just that the majority of America and beyond doesn't know about these massively influential groups.

Underground groups don't rap about the things that commercial rap artists rap about. They rap about social issues, unity, love, brotherhood, and a more intellectual subject matter. Oh yes they do rap about partying and beautiful women and making it and some common things that commercial rappers hit on. But the difference is these groups do it tastefully. They may curse, but not every other word starts with an F or B.

Some of these groups are highly political and have a lot to say about whats going on globally. These groups also hail from every continent. They are highly eclectic and even have Female DJ's and MC's. Which is unheard of in the Commercial Realm. These groups also have members who are of all ethnicities.

Other underground groups are just composed of a DJ or DJ's. Such as DJ Q-Bert,MixMaster Mike, DJ Shadow, DJ Spooky and DJ Krush just to name a few solo artists.

Birdy Nam Nam is a group of 4 DJ's hailing from France who are all WHITE DUDES.

Yes that's right, just a guy/guys with one or two turn tables and a mixer; spinnin records.


The other two aspect of hip are Break Dancing or B-Boying and Graffiti. To really get a good sense of what B-Boying is, Google: The Freshest Kids. It's a documentary about Break Dancing from it's inception to now.

As far as Graffiti is concerned, I don't know of any movie/documentary about it, but I'm sure one exists. Just Google Graffiti,movie or something like that and see what you can find. Please post your results on that, I haven't even tried yet.

The documentary SCRATCH is probably the best comprehensive look into DJing and Hip Hop culture there is currently. I can't praise this movie enough. It's dope!



Peace ya'll

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DaCotau

Well....considering I live in New York City and work in Da Boogie Down (Bronx)....birth place of Hip Hop...I figured I'd respond to this thread. I am a wee bit older than you Oneida and was just entering my teens when Hip Hop was young and fresh (no pun intended). I am in total agreement with you about the underground scene being the ONLY scene. Commercial Hip Hop is awful and I think it is a real shame that something that started out so organic and pure has been contaminated by so much crap. The worst part is that the youngsters who are too young to remember (many were not even born yet) the original scene think that what they hear on the radio and see on MTV is Hip Hop. As far as Native Hip Hop I really have to search that out because I am not exposed to it on the regular. Any suggestions about Native artists worth checking out would be greatly appreciated...and thanx for startin this thread!

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"No snowflake in an avalanche ever feels responsible"
"You cannot give the people who have wronged you so much power that they take away your dreams"

OneidaDreamer

Cool...

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OneidaDreamer

Unfortunately I don't know of any Native MC's. I know a kick a** DJ named DJ Kevin Spencer. He's a Chicago Native from the Oneida Nation. He's been a DJ for around 20 years. He's played clubs and shows all over. He's was also doing extremely prolific murals on Walls,Trains,Billboards etc.

I've known Kevin since the early 90's. He's a very humble laid back dude and his beautiful wife Karmorita supports him all the way.


There is one Native DJ that I know of; his name is DJ Young Native I think he's either from NM or AZ. I stumbled upon him on myspace.

The only female DJ I know of is DJ Kwe from Ontario, now of Vancouver BC. She's a house DJ, but none the less worth mentioning.

Peace

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ntownn8ive

Native hip hop remains underground, as far as the good shtuff goes!

From AZ to the North East and Northwest, Canada, there's all kinds of good underground hitz. My cuzins are workin' on their third album, Lost Tribe. Another group of homeboyz are workin' on the Kolville Project. Some of my favs are from Seattle/Tacoma. Before the Warparty from Canada was out, a group called the War Party Thugs had already dropped a few albums. They were pretty good.

The only ones that really get recognition and play are the rappers promoting healthy life style or some thing positive which is good, good for play, good for the kids, good for sales, but there's nothing wrong with Natives laying down tracks that express their lives and where they came from, city and rez wide.

Thass about it...

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...that's so true....so, so true...

Coyot_In_The_House

When folks talk about Hip Hop.....Although this thread has started out on the right foot so to speak...

I would suggest searching the old Mr. Magic Rap Attack and the Red Alert shows from 107.5 WBLS and 98.7 KISS FM....92 WKTU as well....Look up Harlem World too....( a club from the 80's ) There's a movie from the 80's called "Wildstyle" it explores alot, in particular UA United Artists I.E. "Lee" "Zephyr" etc.... Artists.

New York is the homebase....Yes things have grown (not necessarilly to my liking) but the roots can be found in NYC. Kris Parker a.k.a. KRS One, Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five, The Sugarhill Gang, The Treachorous 3, Whodini, Kool Herc, Grandmaster Caz, Dougie Fresh and the get fresh Crew, Slick Rick, Kool Moe Dee, Run DMC, Afrika Bambataa, Biz Markie, Fat Boys, Kurtis Blow, etc, etc, etc.....As well look up "The Rock Steady Crew" Crazy Legs.....

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ntownn8ive

What I've found about being invovled in makin' your own hip hop, (I laid down a couple tracks with my cuzins in their albums) is that you find that ability to make your own sound. Then all other music seems to become distant. I mean, I like listening to ol' skool, some of the latest stuff, but all the new stuff is all marketed for a brand that I'm not buyin' into.

But, after makin' your own sound and style, you crave it. Then listening to anything that is outside the genre, in this case the underground Native Hip Hop scene, seems too far off, too far out of the mind set of the Natives makin' and eatin' up the Native Hip Hop music; it kinda puts a damper or somehow spoils your creativity, in a sense.

Really, I can't dig someone talkin' bout cars and clothes and city streets because that isn't me. I mean all of us never grew up like that. Though I have the ability to see through their eyes and experiences for a brief moment, I can enjoy their sound for a minute, but it still isn't me.

But, same as Natives makin' powwow music. Once you start makin' your own original songs, listening to or singin' someone elses songs is going to be different to you. It sounds good but there is still that distance that you have created once you start composing.

Anywayz, support your Native hip hop groups and support your powwow drum bros, share the music, keep jammin'!

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...that's so true....so, so true...

Coyot_In_The_House

Certainly the style was born in NY, but as it evolves its good to see people branch it out. Not copy or perpertrate (sp?) it....It's comical when you run into folks who try their best to be "Hip" , or "Down", but they just don't have the knack 4 it. When you add your own ingredients or better yet create your very own, well that's what the initial concept of the Hip Hop world was about....It's like a group trying to emulate or sound like another....I.E. a group trying to be Eyabay, or sound like them....It's not going to happen because Eyabay is Eyabay....Hope that was a good example....So that holds true for Hip Hop....(And no i'm not implying anything....just making a point). Someone growing up in Montana, or North Dakota, or so on is certainly going to have different stories then those growing up in Bed Stuy Brooklyn NY or Fort Apache in the Bronx! My impression is TV and Movies influence the perception and emulation that goes on out there....Emulation is the greatest form of flattery, but originality will take you much further. Of course if the style comes from a particular area your take on it or continuation of it will have the initial influence, that's fine, but put your own spin on it....Recently in British Columbia Canada I heard a young Hip Hop group and quite honestly they were pretty dam good. So it's interesting to see just how much influence Hip Hop has had on people. Now the other take is people associate problems and trouble with Hip Hop. They sense it's bad for Skins....Sort of stick to your own thing, don't take that on, don't act that way...Well I've seen the Good, Bad, and the Ugly....I know there are positive elements there as well as negative ones....It's up to the individual who goes to the drawing board and sketches out their expression so to speak. I hope this was a little helpful or insightful....Hip Hop sure has com a long way from Queensbridge Queens NY, or The Boogie Down Bronx. Lets just hope positive elements of the genre continue to surface and it gives some Indian kids out there a way to express themselves in a good way.....

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ntownn8ive

What's up Bro!

Good points! I know that for many years Hip Hop got a bad “Rap” so to speak, because of it’s incorporation with street gangs, violence and what not. Truthfully, I’m a big 2-Pac fan (not fanatic!) and his constant position on hip hop or rap was that it is only an expression of what people in the streets or ghettos are growing up seeing. It’s not like these people are encouraging the violence or gangs, they are just tellin’ people about what is real in their life. Which, to me holds true for these young Natives out here makin’ their own music. They have the right and opportunity to express what they have seen in their lives. When I got involved in makin’ some tunes, and I’ll be honest, I’m no rapper, but I could sing and since we were makin’ Native Hip Hop, I helped them incorporate some Native sounds; and singin’ all my life, made it really easy to take a beat, a rhythm and lay down a lil’ hey ya hey on it! It was fun, and I believe it blended all together well. I appreciate the music, always have, and if these Natives aren’t out singin’ at powwows or what not,( ‘cause honestly, it just ain’t everybodies cup of tea), at least their makin’ music, Native Music at that!

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...that's so true....so, so true...

OneidaDreamer

That's cool that people all like Tu Pac. I don't at all. But my perception and other people's is very different.

I'm not going to talk $hit about the Rappers I don't like on this thread. My purpose of this thread was to get SKINZ talkin bout their tastes and perspectives of HIP HOP CULTURE influencing our own. And as ya'll know; we've been tagging and breakin right along with those other cultures in cities all across Turtle Island. I think this thread is doing great!!!

I respect those who have differing opinions than me. I just am glad people are responding to this thread. I think music is very important to our culture. I myself having very eclectic tastes. One day I will attempt to write down all the groups I dig. But not today, not today...


Peace

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ntownn8ive

Historically or traditionally…music has played an important role in our spiritual life and what not. I can see how a lot of Natives don’t feel they fit in to the more traditionally based music. However you look at it, music is music, it provokes emotion and expression. I can dig Natives gettin’ down on whatever kinda music makes them happy, especially if they are makin’ the music themselves.

Anywayz, good thread, I feel that music has been a major part of my life. I was told that I would never expect to be a rich or wealthy man if I chose to walk the path of a singer, but I would always have enough of what I need. That’s fine with me, too. The Hip Hop though, like I said, if Natives are makin’ it, I’m supporting it 110%, you can bet on that!

Thanks for the thread O.D.

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...that's so true....so, so true...

OneidaDreamer

Right on.

I'm glad this thread is evoking folks to talk about their experiences. It needed to be started. I feel very strongly about the skinz being all gangsta gangsta gangsta. I really think their posers. But that is my perception. And what is so cool about speaking in broken crappy English anyway?

That really gets on my nerves. What's cool about sounding unintelligent? Or is that in now? Sounding uneducated? Perhaps I'll start another thread concerning linguistics and our culture....

I still think sounding like you didn't pass middle school is freakin lame...

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DaCotau

ABSOLUTELY!! I agree. This type of image (gangsta, ignorant etc)is really an insult to fans. It reinforces tragic stereotypes and nothing more. Hip Hop was started by intelligent, creative people who were able to break through stereotypes and articulate themselves and their culture in positive, ground breaking ways. Whether it was through urban art, dancing, writing, DJ, MC, and so on. If the originators of Hip Hop were all spending their time committing crime, locked up, and acting stupid in the street then we would not be having this discussion now because there would be no Hip Hop. As far as I am concerned the "artists" who promote the gangsta image, and worse, bash being educated and living positive, are just exploiting their own people. It does not matter to them how there message is translated by the youth that are listening because they're getting paid and gettin that cash is all that matters to them. What is happening now in main stream urban music could not be farther from it's origins, and I am old enough to remember the original scene and how positive and inspiring it all felt.

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"No snowflake in an avalanche ever feels responsible"
"You cannot give the people who have wronged you so much power that they take away your dreams"

OneidaDreamer

I agree with you wholeheartedly my friend...

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Coyot_In_The_House

Originality is the foundation of the Hip Hop style. Nowadays you see so many "artists" oppur "tune" ists! Putting out garbage! Seems all their concerned with is making a buck or two. There has 2 b hundreds of "flash in the pan" folks...The swearing and disrespect to women is real weak! The original message wasn't about lamping in your Hoody with a 40 and smoking up.....? The Originators expressed themselves in a positive way....Sure there was some rugged stuff from time to time, but it's off the deep end today. I'm not pissing on anyone's party, i'm just telling it like it is....My older brother (1st Cousin) spun records with Darryl and Run. They were childhood pals....My bro could have gone on with them to Japan when they "blew up" but he opted for Engineering school...He laughed about that many a year after and was happy for RUN-DMC's huge success....I was there in Hollis, Ravenswood, Queensbridge, Bed Stuy, etc....I was a young hood then, but lived the good ole days, so to speak....Shell Top Adidas, Pumas, British Walkers, Sheepskins, Bombers, Lee jeans, Name buckle belts, Kangols, Kazzeles, etc.....Shopping on Delancy street, 125th st. Harlem, Jamaica Queens.....So I was in Da Mix so 2 speak....

Here's a task 4 ya....Want to explore or research some Indian Hip Hop....Look no further then "Strong Island" a.k.a. Long Island....The Break Squad....Straight out of Southampton NY.....Lance G, Steve T, Fly Guy, 2 name a few....LOL!

Artists with potential will be influenced by the original Hip Hop style, but add your own flavour to it! Don't walk down the beaten path....Blaze your very own trail....None the less it's good you express yourself.....

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OneidaDreamer

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Coyot_In_The_House

AKA DOLEMITE.....

Wanna step back a lil further juss let me know....

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bushy_braids

amen!

i grew up on hip hop and i love it! i represent the culture and have tried to learn as much as i can about it. i have done a lotta research about the culture and its elements and continue to do so because afterall, it is one of the most influential music genres on modern pop culture!
i know coyote mentioned the "wildstyle" movie, but also check out "breakin' 1" and "breakin' 2: electrtic boogaloo" and "style wars" too. there's also a book called "graffiti world: street art from five continents" and they just released a book called "graffiti women: street art from five continents"... it has some of the most well-known graff artists and their work, def worth checking out!

a lot of folks don't understand the hip hop culture, only one of it's most well known elements - rap... and base their thoughts, feelings, likes/dislikes on that... and realize, these folks have been subjected to radio play. *sigh*
unfortunatley they aren't aware of the incredibly talented artists out there with inspiring messages that empower the culture... which is why folks like us have to keep the underground alive!

if you all get the chance, please check out this group called rezawrecktion... they're a gospel hip hop group from the crow rez... (and no i'm not shamelessly pluggin' 'em just cause they're crow... haha) but for real, they're incredibly talented and they make all their own music - create the beats and write the rhymes...
anyway, the lead of the group, SUPAMAN grew up reppin' the hip hop culture... my sis always teases him and says "hey i remember when we were in 2nd grade and you used to have your own crew, called the crow breakers"... and this was over 20 years ago!
so ever since... ever since... we've been reppin' the hip hop culture and a lot of people fail to realize that.

if you really sit down and think about it, there are many similarities between the native culture and the hip hop culture. those who have found the common ground can use the knowledge to empower a people, esp. the younger ones since they are so easily influenced!

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"i don't like to walk fast man - i like to strut!"